Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2016 August 19

= August 19 =

Is there a minimum age (or a maximum age) for the Olympics?
Is there a minimum age (or a maximum age) for the Olympics? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:11, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The IOC does not directly manage the Olympic events nor qualify competitors. Instead, governing bodies for each sport do so; so there is no universal answer for all of the Olympics.  For example FIBA manages the Olympic Basketball tournaments while the International Federation of Gymnastics (FIG or IFG) manages the gymnastics events.  Some sports, such as gymnastics, do have an age minimum, as noted at Age requirements in gymnastics to be 16 for top-level events such as the Olympics.  Not all sports have such requirements, This article notes the youngest Rio Olympian to be 13 years old, a competitor in swimming.  That article discusses age minimums for various sports. -- Jayron 32 03:19, 19 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The men's Olympic football tournament is for under-23 players (with teams allowed three exceptions). (Details here.) And in the world of football, it is not a very important tournament.  Hayttom (talk) 12:36, 19 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Gymnast Dimitrios Loundras was only 10 years old when he won a team bronze in 1896. An unnamed French boy aged "about 7" coxed for a Dutch pairs crew in the 1900 games, but doesn't seem to have been given a medal - see Oldest and Youngest Olympians (Summer Games). More recently, British diver Tom Daley competed in the 2008 games at the age of 14. Alansplodge (talk) 17:03, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:41, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Tied gold medals
So, Team GB won a gold and a silver when the Alistair Brownlee and Jonny Brownlee took the top two places in the triathlon. The former waited (as he often does) for the latter before crossing the finishing line. Now, "match-rigging" aside, and per the German twins who cross the line together, if Jonny and Alistair crossed the line together, would Team GB have been awarded two golds rather than one gold and one silver, and would a tied gold between two members of the same NOC count as two golds overall? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:32, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Looking at the ITU rules, it appears that if they could not determine which one had any part of their torso cross the line first, then they would both be awarded first place. Warofdreams talk 20:45, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * So an additional gold in the medal table was a possibility (ignoring the match-rigging inevitability)? Just in case Team GB wanted to guarantee second place ahead of China...  The Rambling Man (talk) 20:51, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Tied or not, China should still only get the bronze. For comparison, in the men's 100m butterfly, three guys tied for second place, all getting silver, so there was no bronze awarded. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:11, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The point is that the medal table sorts initially by golds, then silvers then bronzes. So to have one gold is better than to have eighty silvers, one silver better than eighty bronzes etc.  So all I'm suggesting is that if the Brownlees had collaborated, Team GB would one gold further up the table (or one gold further ahead of China).  The Rambling Man (talk) 22:13, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * If they had tied for first, sure. That would make sense. In pool swimming there are electronic timers which determine the finishing order. I don't know if electronic timers are used in running races, although the results on some of the track races seem to be using photos. Given that, it might be hard to cross the finish at the exact same moment. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:31, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

I am unfamiliar with these people. What do you mean when you say: "The former waited (as he often does) for the latter before crossing the finishing line." ... ? What's that all about? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:22, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Your user page claims that you're a member of Mensa and a lawyer. This question, among many others that I've seen on the RefDesk, belie these assertions. —Nelson Ricardo (talk) 04:35, 20 August 2016 (UTC)


 * You think that Alistair Brownlee and Jonny Brownlee are household names?  I assure you they are not.  I have never heard of them until just now.  And that fact has nothing to do with lawyering and/or Mensa.    Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 07:02, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Nor I, but their articles tell who they are, and TRM's comment I would call a little bit of "inside dope" on their style, likely based on personal observation. The triathlon typically involves swimming, cycling and running, in that order. So the two brothers apparently led the foot race and crossed the finish line nearly together, which according to TRM is standard practice for them when the situation arises. How they decide who gets to finish first, I dunno. Maybe they tried to tie but it didn't work out. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:42, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * No, they definitely didn't try to tie, but I was just interested because this is one of the few occasions in the Olympics were athletes from the same country held such a lead and were actually able to cross the line together, should they have decided to do so. It would have resulted in two golds for Team GB rather than a gold and silver, which would have improved their chances of finishing ahead of China in the overall standings.  As for the Brownlees not being household names, if one is in that position that then perhaps one should not attempt to answer questions at the ref desk on such topics.  After all, Alistair is only a double Olympic gold medallist and world champion... The Rambling Man (talk) 09:10, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Your question was clear enough, so I don't know why someone would be confused about it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:38, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The idea that if they crossed the line simultaneously they would have won two gold medals and thus helped Team GB's overall standing probably didn't occur to them as being very important. Like any competitive athletes, they compete against each other - the purported importance of medal tables in promoting some form of national pride is largely a media creation.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:56, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'm missing something, but where did Nelson Ricardo say they were household names or indicate that was part of their point? Nil Einne (talk) 06:32, 22 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Maybe this isn't quite what you asked, but the Women's Triathlon at London 2012 gives a practical example of what would happen. The first two finishers crossed the line at the same time (to within 0.1 seconds) only millimetres apart, but a photo finish was able to determine the gold and silver placings. I would suggest that, for all practical purposes, it would be impossible for two people to coordinate to the extent that they both cross the line EXACTLY in sync, and for the officials to be unable to separate them even by photo finish. Therefore, in triathlon at least, you will always find a gold and silver medalist, so the question is moot. Note that other sports may have a scoring setup that makes joint golds more plausible. I just can't think of one right now. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 09:04, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This is a moderately interesting article about ties in the history of the Winter Games, FWIW. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:13, 20 August 2016 (UTC)


 * As I noted earlier, in one of the swimming races there was a three-way tie for second place, so three silver medals were awarded. Ties are possible in swimming because of the mechanism they use to measure the swimmer's time in each lane. As I recall, there were a few ties in some of the prelims as well. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:40, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not about the "mechanism", it's about the precision of concrete pool construction. Swimming races are timed only to a precision of a hundredth of a second because the FINA specifications for swimming pools allow for a tolerance of 3 centimeters in lane length, and a thousandth of a second difference is much less than three centimeters. So after 1972, they changed the timing rules from thousandths to hundredths. --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106; &#x1D110;&#x1d107; 15:17, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, the precision of the mechanism used to measure the times. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:13, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The mechanism is entirely capable of measuring the time more precisely. They choose not to use more precision because the accuracy doesn't justify the precision. --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106; &#x1D110;&#x1d107; 21:08, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, ties are more likely to the hundredth than to the thousandth. Given complaints about the pool itself impeding some of the swimmers in the outer lanes, the touchpad is the least of their problems. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:10, 21 August 2016 (UTC)


 * And in fact within the last few minutes there was the medal ceremony for the Kayak Single (K1) 200m Men which finished with a dead-heat for bronze between Spain and Germany. Both athletes took to the podium. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 12:45, 20 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The exact situation you are describing happened in 2000 in the men's 50 meter freestyle swimming event. Two Americans tied for first place, and both were awarded gold medals. If this and this can be believed, the U.S. did receive credit for two gold medals that year from the same event. So if the Brownlees had decided to time their finishes perfectly, in theory they could have given your team a leg up by claiming multiple golds at once. Fortunately for you and other Brits, it turns out the extra gold wasn't needed for them to finish ahead of China on the medal table you use. Our media tends to use tables sorted by overall medals, a measure in which Britain just finished behind China. Strangely enough, my local paper uses the IOC format; I guess they think it's safe either way, unlike in Beijing. Giants2008  ( Talk ) 21:42, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Cheers Giants, and others, much appreciated. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:55, 23 August 2016 (UTC)


 * There's also the scenario that if the Brownlee's knew a dead-heat could get them each a gold, Alistair might have ended up with silver, after the photo-finish showed he was behind his brother! I doubt anyone would risk losing a sure-fire gold yards from the line, on the small chance it would bolster their countries gold medal count.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 13:35, 23 August 2016 (UTC)