Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2016 December 4

= December 4 =

Star Wars chronology
I'm a "casual" fan of Star Wars, not geeky about it. What is the proper narrative chronology of the movies? The films were not made in the "correct" order, some later films cover events that predate earlier films. The "Episode" numbers don't make much sense to me. If I want to watch the whole set of movies should I do so in the order they were published or would the narrative sequence be easier to follow? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:16, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The Star Wars episode numbers give the in-universe chronological order: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. The release order is episode 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3, 7. Rogue One opening this month has no episode number but takes place between episode 3 and 4. Star Wars fans can be a bit obsessive and there are different opinions about the best viewing order. See for example or try to Google . Some recommend the Machete Order: 4, 5, 2, 3, 6 (skipping 1, named before 7 was announced). PrimeHunter (talk) 12:06, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * You've forgotten the Holiday Special which was released between ep 4 & 5. I know of dedicated Star Wars fans who deny it's existance, but I saw it on the TV when it first transmitted. Put me off Star Wars for life, not that I was a huge fan of the first film which I also saw in 1977. --TrogWoolley (talk) 13:43, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I know from personal experience that it's best saved for the last part of a marathon, but only if you are watching a marathon with other people. The holiday special is not something you watch, it's something you make Star Wars fans who haven't heard of it watch so you can watch their reactions.  Kinda like telling dead baby jokes... on an evangelical forum... after sorting out which ones don't actually violate any of the site's rules... Ian.thomson (talk) 16:35, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * And, if you can find it, C-3PO conducting the Boston Pops Orchestra in a medley of Star Wars music. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:52, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, if we're going to include TV specials, then there is not one, but two Ewok movies to include as well; Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure and Ewoks: The Battle for Endor. They aren't good, but they're better than the Holiday Special.  Once you get into the "expanded universe" stuff (i.e. what is outside of the cinematic movies) it gets bloated and convoluted.  There's actually two distinct canons for this; there's what is now called Star Wars Legends, which is all of the material that was part of the OLD LucasFilm canon, and which was actually meticulously maintained (see Holocron) so as to avoid major continuity errors (but is HUGE, with books, TV series, video games, comics, etc.) and the modern Star Wars canon, which was basically "reset" after Disney completed its purchase of Star Wars from Lucas, and dumped everything except the core Episode 1-6 films, one animated film, and two TV series.  So, before one gets deep into the Star Wars Legendarium, one needs to decide which canon one wishes to commit too.  The old, now retired canon has some really good stories (the Timothy Zahn Thrawn trilogy and Ann C. Crispin's Han Solo Trilogy are notably pretty good) and some really bad ones as well; but remember that those works will not have any continuity with the any forthcoming films (i.e. the Thrawn books take place pretty much contemporaneous with the current sequel trilogy, episodes 7-9, and the Han Solo Trilogy is not being used to inform the planned 2018 Han Solo origin story).  -- Jayron 32 18:58, 6 December 2016 (UTC)


 * WP:NOR (though I'm sure I could find blogs making each argument), but: If you watch them in episode order, the "big surprise" of 5 has less impact (though since you're a fan, no matter how casual, you already know what it is). If you watch them in release order, the tragedy of 3 is rather lost as you see it coming three movies ago, but the redemption in 6 makes more sense.  7 seems more or less made to be viewed either before or after the other 6, though from what I've seen here in China, it doesn't have as much of an effect if you haven't seen any of the others.  Ian.thomson (talk) 12:17, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Excellent point. Also, the production values of Empire ("Episode V") and the relative depth of some of the plot elements led critics to rave about it, despite its implied "to be continued" at the end. Of course, the viewer would have to see 4 before seeing 5, or 5 wouldn't make a lot of sense. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:23, 4 December 2016 (UTC)


 * I am also a "casual" fan, having seen most of them only once. I recommend them in production order, so that you can see how each one built on (or was derived from) the previous ones. If you can find the original, un-tinkered with film (later called Episode IV), you can see what they started with, and can perhaps imagine why it was such a sensation at the time, as well as establishing the formula for the series. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:20, 4 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The correct order to watch them is Blue Harvest, then Something, Something, Something, Dark Side and finally It's a Trap!.  Lugnuts  Precious bodily fluids 18:13, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * That last one seems fishy.
 * And let's not forget Hardware Wars. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:53, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It's a Trap! was so bad it came with a warning at the beginning that they'd run out of jokes. Why they haven't shown that at the beginning of every episode since about season 8 is a mystery for another day. Matt Deres (talk) 02:52, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Recommended order: Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, The Force Awakens.  That is to say: ignore the prequels (they add nothing to the story and are mostly bad).  Try to get hold of the original theatrical releases (or at least the early re-releases) rather than the special editions, which spoil more than they improve. Iapetus (talk) 15:02, 5 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Actually, if you haven't seen the original in a while, I recommend Googling star wars revisited to obtain the best version of A New Hope that exists. Don't let the "fan edit" tag fool you and have a look at the previews all over YouTube; the DVDs are of superior quality to what's been passed off as "Blu-Ray" and many of Lucas' most egregious blunders have been seamlessly removed. Matt Deres (talk) 02:55, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Like the part where Obi-Wan said that Darth Vader had murdered Luke's father? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:02, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, that's what happened, from a certain point of view. -- Jayron 32 18:48, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Right, from the point of view of not-having-written-the-sequel's-script-yet. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:02, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * See also "In what order should the Star Wars movies be watched?" on Science Fiction Stack Exchange for various detailed answers. &#x2013; b_jonas 14:51, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

First-person video games
what was the first First-person video games?--2001:B07:6463:31EE:39DC:CEF7:1892:5CAC (talk) 16:23, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Per the article, either Spasim or Maze War. Ian.thomson (talk) 16:36, 4 December 2016 (UTC)