Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2016 March 24

= March 24 =

Do any of you know what game this is?
I played a game years ago that was a simple flash game. I know it started with the letter A and it was medieval-themed. It was controlled by your mouse and you had to upgrade your bot or whatever it was considered. You chose new weapons, some being stiff swords and other maces that you could fling around. There was also a betrayal choice in the story. You went through the story and had to use your mouse to indirectly control your weapon to hit enemies. I played it before on a flash site, but forgot what the exact name of it was, though I know it started with A and I keep thinking “Arcanum” for some dumb reason, but that is not it. Does anyone know what game this is?

In addition, I remember that there was two factions go against each other. There was multiple scenarios I remember, such as there is an arena-style level and a wave survival level. You started off with a hammer, I think, and you could get as high as a double-ended sword. You could upgrade armor too look more “modern” and protect from harder hits. You had minor decisions in the story-line, such as changing your faction. I hope this extra information helps.

2602:302:D173:13F0:F828:6FA0:DEE2:26F2 (talk) 12:50, 24 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Any recollection of where you played it? Maybe Newgrounds or Kongregate? SemanticMantis (talk) 17:24, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, I think I originally played it on OneMoreLevel. I tried posting this description to the game board for Kongregate but to no avail. It may be on Newgrounds, but I do not go on their often as is. 2602:302:D173:13F0:3499:AE6E:A726:7B45 (talk) 19:14, 24 March 2016 (UTC)


 * There is a flash site, Medieval Gameplay (medievalgameplay.com), that seems promising.  Arcanorum has a similar name to “Arcanum”, but is described as a "medieval fighting adventure, fly your ancient helicopter and battle other fighting robots ...". -- 2600:1004:B056:8536:CCC4:E73A:5168:3476 (talk) 20:23, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Journey to the West movie
Can you tell me the name of a late 90′s - early 2000′s movie about a modern US man travelling to the universe of Journey to the West? There was also some sort of an evil Chinese magician in New York, I think. 2A02:582:C76:1800:8941:7B1F:B003:7653 (talk) 12:50, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Was it The Monkey King (miniseries)? uhhlive (talk) 13:42, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes! Thank you! 2A02:582:C76:1800:8941:7B1F:B003:7653 (talk) 18:16, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Musical genre for certain types of old music
By that, I mean Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, London Bridge, Silent Night, Jingle Bells, Mary Had A Little Lamb, or Brahm's Lullaby. Are these classified under children's music or "traditional music" or lullabies or traditional song music? 140.254.70.33 (talk) 13:12, 24 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Genre classification is inherently subjective, there is no one "right" way. Here's a little essay on the topic. Here   is some scholarly research on the topic of music genre classification. It mostly becomes a question of what group membership you want to claim and defend. If you said Mary Had a Little Lamb is a folk song you wouldn't be wrong, but maybe it's better represented as a nursery rhyme. It can be children's music too, genres are allowed to overlap.  Brahm's lullaby could be considered as traditional music these days but when it was written it was contemporary music, but now it's not. It's still probably classical music too.   SemanticMantis (talk) 15:45, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The man's name was Brahms. Vladimir Brahms.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:32, 24 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Nursery rhymes. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:05, 24 March 2016 (UTC)


 * The version of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star by Mendelssohn is rightly classed as classical music. --TammyMoet (talk) 18:43, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Mendelssohn? Do you perhaps mean Mozart, who wrote a set of variations on it (or on what was known to him as "Ah vous dirai-je, maman")?  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:30, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks like I do, but I'm sure Mendelssohn wrote a piece around it. My apologies. --TammyMoet (talk) 20:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of it, and I just googled for it, fruitlessly. Were you perhaps confusing it with Hark! The Herald Angels Sing, the melody of which was indeed by Mendelssohn?  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:25, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Silent Night is a Christmas Carol. 109.150.174.93 (talk) 20:19, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * And so is "Jingle Bells". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:39, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * While "Jingle Bells" is heard Christmas time now it was originally written to be sung at Thanksgiving. Funny the factoids that stick in my memory. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 21:29, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps akin to "Over the River and through the Woods", which is more associated with Thanksgiving. And "Sleigh Ride", which is associated with Christmas, but its words (as well as the words of Jingle Bells) don't say anything about Christmas. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:32, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Is there a Wikipedia article about acting roles originally played by different actors?
I was reading this article: 18 Famous TV Roles Originally Played by Someone Else. I wanted to know if Wikipedia has any similar type of article(s). It doesn't have to be limited to TV acting; it could be films, theater, whatever. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:35, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * This could be a problem. What does "famous" mean? Is Aunt Bea of The Andy Griffith Show "famous" enough? Because in the pilot episode, which was actually an episode of The Danny Thomas Show, Frances Bavier was in it, but played a different character. And there's the famous "Darrin" situation from Bewitched. And the Donna Reed situation from Dallas. Defining such a list gets tricky. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:49, 24 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, you make a good point. But, whether tricky or not tricky, does Wikipedia have any similar type of article(s)?  Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:23, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * If there is one, it's not obviously named, such as "List of..." whatever. And whatever list it might be in, you might expect Roz Doyle to be in it. But she's not, either as a list or as a category, that I can find. The "tricky" parts would be (1) defining it; (2) researching it; and (3) keeping it from being deleted as unencyclopedic. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:32, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I would argue that Darrin Stephens is more famous than any of those 18. Yet his character doesn't even have a separate article. Thus further complicating such a list. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:37, 24 March 2016 (UTC)


 * All that palaver about why it couldn't possibly exist, yet lo and behold!. Eppur si muove!.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:41, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Jolly good. I couldn't find it when I searched for it. Note the lack of an entry for Lisa Kudrow in Frasier, since I don't think she ever made it past rehearsals. Again, it's a question of how to define it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:48, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * There's a mistake in the M*A*S*H entry, as there were actually two different Father Mulcahy's. They changed the first name when they re-cast the role. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:51, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The article cited by the OP talks about Pert Kelton being replaced by Audrey Meadows for The Honeymooners, which is true. But it omits the later Honeymooners episodes, built into Jackie Gleason's 1960s variety show, in which Alice was played by Sheila MacRae. And our article does not even list The Honeymooners. That's the problem with such a list, being vaguely referenced and inherently incomplete. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:57, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Now that I've tracked down what the OP was after, why continue to complain about it here? Go to its talk page and argue for its improvement or demolition.  The items you've noted will never get into the list until you or someone else puts them there.  Btw, Wikipedia is often vaguely referenced, and inherently incomplete.  It's never gonna work.  Let's get rid of it.  :) --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:15, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Only if you can guarantee the article won't be deleted. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:29, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for finding that list/article (List of television programs in which one character was played by multiple actors). It's not quite what I was looking for. But apparently that's what Wikipedia has. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:23, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * If you expand it to theater, you're really opening a can of worms. Think how many actors have played "Hamlet" on stage and in films, for example. You would end up with a list so big that it would be nominated for deletion just due to its shear size, never mind other objections that would arise. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:29, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Or for a TV to film crossover I was amazed to learn (a long time ago now) that the first person to play James Bond was the American actor Barry Nelson and it was in the TV production Casino Royale. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 21:34, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * There would be a number of those. Marty was played by Rod Steiger on TV and by Ernest Borgnine in the movie. Then there's Harvey (play) in which a variety of actors played the role on stage, screen and TV. Likewise with The Odd Couple. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:54, 24 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Nobody really knows how many Doink the Clowns exist(ed), but our article notes the better-paid ones. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:04, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Similar situation with Bozo the Clown, who was played by two different actors just in the Chicago version of the franchise, the first of which was Bob Bell, whose somewhat raspy voice was the inspiration for the voice actor who does the clown on The Simpsons. Then there was the Indian princess on Howdy Doody, whose actress was killed in an auto accident, and her replacement was a puppet. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:10, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Rusty Nails was the inspiration for Krusty the Clown (at least in Groening's mind). Krusty himself had a clown college for in-universe impostors, the most notable (and convincing) being Homie the Clown (voiced by the real Krusty). InedibleHulk (talk) 22:20, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That may be true for Groening's vision of the clown, but I heard Chicago-area native Castellaneta himself say that the voice which he provided was inspired by Bob Bell's voice. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:48, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I believe you (hence the parenthetical). Just adding some clarity and Wikilinks. He may not be real, but Krusty's made more children of all ages laugh than Bassie, Blinky, Bozo, Bubbles and Pogo combined. "The clown on The Simpsons"...bah! InedibleHulk (talk) 23:45, 24 March 2016 (UTC)


 * To do this right might not be "impossible", but is more than likely "impractical". You would have to start with a list of every play, film and TV show on Wikipedia, and study them for cast changes within and across those media. This sounds like a job for Superman! (As played by Bud Collyer, Kirk Alyn, George Reeves, Bob Holiday, Christopher Reeve, Dean Cain, Brandon Routh, Henry Cavill, and so on and so on.) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:19, 24 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Perhaps my original question wasn't worded all the great. What I was really looking for was a situation where you have a "famous" (well-known) actor playing a role.  However, that role was originated by some other "less famous" (or unknown) actor.  Much like the original article that I had referred to: 18 Famous TV Roles Originally Played by Someone Else.   I wasn't really looking for characters who were played by multiple actors, as there are thousands upon thousands of those.  More like people who became famous because of a specific role.   Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:50, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Of those types, there's always going to be a more famous one, and with the way the growth of mass media works, that one is usually later. Also helped by people who remember the classics constantly dying after having more than one grandchild recognize the new Superman as the real Superman.
 * If you mean something like how the famous Louie Anderson played the role that made the less-famous Mark Linn-Baker's character famous, but fewer people saw the famous guy do it, there's the case of Konnan playing Max Moon untelevised, then quitting and leaving the expensive costume to be filled on-air by relative unknown (and often masked) Tom Boric. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:22, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * When I read this article (18 Famous TV Roles Originally Played by Someone Else), I recognized everyone they were talking about. And I found it interesting.  When I read this article (List of television programs in which one character was played by multiple actors), I didn't recognize -- or care about -- 95% of those people.  Never heard of them (or even the TV shows).  To me, it was a long list of "nobodies".  It's just an observation on my part.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:34, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * It was about 2005 when I stopped remembering new celebrities' names or faces. Not sure that ever comes back. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:44, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * That reinforces what IH said just above. A lot of it is generational. You probably know of Stephen Colbert, for example. But are you familiar with past media giants like Jack Benny or Johnny Carson? I recognize a lot of names in the Wikipedia article, but not near all of the list of 18 from the article you cited. And some of them in that list don't really count, because they merely rehearsed for the role. Anyway, you may be getting a sense of how elephantine and subjective such a list could be. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:46, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, I agree. And it's certainly generational.  There's probably young kids out there who would draw a blank if you said "Fred and Ethel Mertz" or "Johnny Carson".  The same blank I draw when they mention these "actors" and "celebrities" of today on these so-called TV shows of today.  We've gone so far down hill so fast.  Ugh. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 00:54, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I am 46, and have no idea who Fred and Ethel Mertz are or were. At a push, I'd guess either Communist spies or American serial killers. DuncanHill (talk) 17:01, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The TV series was called I Love Lucy, one of the biggest hits of the 1950s, and is probably still playing in syndication somewhere. Fred and Ethel were the owners of the apartment building they lived in. The only connection to Communism that I know of is that Lucy was questioned by the HUAC (or some equivalent) about having attended Communist Party meetings in he 1930s. Luckily, nothing came of it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:30, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * One of the most famous "Lucy" bits was this conveyor belt deal, with Lucy and Ethel. Jackie Gleason did a similar bit, six months earlier, with cakes instead of chocolates. I don't know its origin, but I think Chaplin had a similar situation in Modern Times. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:59, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Here is Weird Al's video parody/homage of the show, fun for those who remember the show, and probably a mystery to those who don't. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:08, 31 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Geographical, too. Do either of you recall the most famous kangaroo of all? Skippy the Bush Kanga-who? InedibleHulk (talk) 00:59, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * At least Skippy the Bush Kangaroo was an actual kangaroo. Mitch Ames (talk) 03:41, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * At least nine actual kangaroos. All long dead now. Polkaroo still shows up for meet and greets, and is still relatively influential and fit. I'd hate to smell the inside of that suit. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:55, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * And if he's not real, I can't imagine why he'd have a verified Twitter account and Ontario driver's licence. Hasn't been active for a while, though. Somebody should probably check on him. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:00, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I remember Captain Kangaroo pretty well, but never heard of Polkaroo until just now. Which brings up another problem: Would the list be confined to English-language shows? Or might Bollywood figure into it, for example? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Or the cinema of Cyprus? InedibleHulk (talk) 01:16, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * And Lassie wasn't Lassie; it was a succession of dogs impersonating her. But at least they've been family. The original one was Pal, and the other Lassies have all been Pal's descendants.  K9 royalty.  The latest one (the scion?) continues to make "personal appearances" to this day, 73 years after the first Lassie movie.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:20, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, Lassie wasn't a "lassie". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:53, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Four Benjis, too. Half male, half female, all ever-living. One time, he was played by Chevy Chase. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:28, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * At the top of Cracked today is "7 Characters Clearly Designed For (Different) Famous Actors". Might be useful. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:17, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Just beneath it, "10 Sex Illustrations You Won't Believe Are On Wikipedia". Unlike us, their version is "safe for work". InedibleHulk (talk) 00:52, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:12, 29 March 2016 (UTC)


 * There were numerous Bettys, one of them the daughter of another. DuncanHill (talk) 16:58, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

What was the official name of the Best Picture Oscar at the 1st Academy Awards?
At the 1st Academy Awards, there were two "Best Picture"-like type of awards. One award was called "Outstanding Picture"; it was won by Wings. A second award was won by Sunrise. All over Wikipedia, this second award is called "Unique and Artistic Production". I have seen that title for many years, in many different articles. However, just now, I was checking the Academy's official website. And, all over the place there, they call that award "Unique and Artistic Picture". Does anyone know why the discrepancy? Why would Wikipedia change the name of the award and list it as such in multiple articles and multiple references to it? Or did the Academy retroactively change the title? Does anyone know? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:55, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, this page says the award was actually for "Best Unique and Artistic Quality of Production";this one says "Best Picture, Unique and Artistic Production"; and this one says "Unique and Artistic Picture (also known as Artistic Quality of Production)". Considering that the awards in those days were announced months before the ceremony, it seems entirely possible that the Academy used different forms of the name at different times. --69.159.61.172 (talk) 02:32, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * It's quite odd. I am guessing that the AMPAS official website retroactively changed their wording.  It just seems odd.  I wonder if anyone knows for sure.  As to your theory: why would AMPAS use different forms?  Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:05, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd rather not be debating hypotheticals, but the idea that there's only one correct name for a thing is not one that everybody has. They may have viewed the name as simply descriptive, or viewed the earliest version (whatever it was) as awkwardly worded.  Heck, even in the Oscars, look at the different ways that some of them get referred to today. --69.159.61.172 (talk) 07:34, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Well, I am gonna disagree. Usually an award has an "official" name.  I am referring to the official name given by the Academy.  I am not referring to colloquial names given by the media, the press, the public, etc.  And since this award lasted all of one year, it would be rather odd that the Academy would change its "official" name several times.  The award was given one and only one time, and then discontinued.  Do you not agree with all that I have said?   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 08:55, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * All you need do is look at the nameplate next time you get one (like this). Didn't get a nameplate? - insist and tell them "An Oscar statuette just isn't complete until a nameplate is attached" according to Academy president Tom Sherak. See Academy Award. AllBestFaith (talk) 13:23, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Since you ask, the only point I disagree with is the assumption that they must necessarily have given it an "official name". They may have; they may not. --69.159.61.172 (talk) 22:25, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * It's unlikely that they'd have official names for all the their other awards, but just not this one. Yes?   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:44, 26 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Bringing this back to Max Moon for a second, note that they call him a "Superstar" in a galaxy known as the "WWE Universe". Neither of those trademarks existed for another fifteen years and "WWE" itself was a decade away. The "inaugural episode of Raw" was called Monday Night RAW. Every one of their championships (more akin to TV awards than sports trophies) has had "WWF" or "WWWF" wiped off the website, in every timeframe, and Wikipedia errs on the side of now. When you own your own history like these organizations do, it's even more malleable than the generic kind. Official titles only last as long as official policies do. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:50, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * "Super Bowl I" wasn't called the "Super Bowl", either. It was the NFL-AFL Championship. The term "Super Bowl" was coined later and the first one was relabeled "Super Bowl I". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:10, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Same deal with "WrestleMania I". But aren't you the guy who's meant to bring up "The Championship of the United States" instead? InedibleHulk (talk) 23:26, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That was originally called the "World's Championship Series", then the "World's Series" and finally the "World Series". All variations on the same name. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:36, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I stand mostly corrected. Seems only the New York Clipper called the 1884 World Series that. I think we're supposed to call the Clipper Variety now. Maybe that's the reason for all the changes, ever. The so-called "spice of life" (or maybe "life spice"). InedibleHulk (talk) 23:49, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * In 1884, the baseball championship of the USA and of the world were effectively the same thing. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:05, 26 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Those are all events, games, and/or athletic competitions. They are not awards. Also, the World Series and the Super Bowl have continued for years, in fact, decades.  So, retrospectively, there were many opportunities -- and many potential reasons -- to go back and change the name. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:45, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:13, 29 March 2016 (UTC)