Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2016 September 29

= September 29 =

What exactly are the "five armies" in Tolkien's battle? (done)
What exactly are the five armies listed by Tolkien in The Hobbit? I haven't read the book, but after seeing the animated film I had taken as a matter of course that the five armies are those of goblins+Wargs against the four of humans, elves, dwarves, and eagles. However someone told me that the Wargs are to be counted as an army in their own right, while the Eagles are not included in the count. The sentence in List_of_Middle-earth_wars_and_battles "...was fought by the goblins and the Wargs of Moria, Gundabad and the Misty Mountains against the Men of the Long Lake, the Elves of Mirkwood, the Dwarves on and near the Lonely Mountain, and the great Eagles of the Misty Mountains." is not definitely conclusive in this matter, neither is the 2014 film. Which interpretation is the right one? --KnightMove (talk) 07:25, 29 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Having read the book several times (forget the film - the name of the battle comes from the book) I have to tell you that Tolkien does not actually provide a specific list of the five armies. He clearly thought of it as five armies - but it is equally possible to count six, plus a couple of individuals who didn't fit into any of them (Bilbo and Beorn - though Bilbo didn't do much fighting). Wymspen (talk) 07:59, 29 September 2016 (UTC)


 * See Who are the armies in the Battle of Five Armies anyway? by Daniel Helen, The Tolkien Society. ---Sluzzelin talk  09:23, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you! --KnightMove (talk) 10:40, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Note also that the film deviated from the book in a number of ways, including how the battle (and the armies involved) were portrayed. Iapetus (talk) 12:09, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

One last follow-up question: In the book, to the Wargs act independently of the Orcs during the battle in any way, or are they just riding animals, as they are in the films? --KnightMove (talk) 14:01, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * They are not independent. Matt Deres (talk) 14:28, 29 September 2016 (UTC)