Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2016 September 8

= September 8 =

Middlebrow fiction
Is there a comprehensive, generally accepted definition of middlebrow fiction? What are the characteristics which distinguish it from literary fiction on one hand, and from lowbrow fiction on the other? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 04:38, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * When you eliminate literary, highbrow and lowbrow fiction from the pool, middlebrow fiction is what is left. Likely no definitive answer is possible, because every individual perceives high- and lowbrow relative to the height of their own brow, and so is subjective. However, our articles/disambiguation page linked above may help. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.202.211.191 (talk) 18:13, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * So, for example, let's consider a novel with the following attributes: a realistic, coherent plot; few subplots; richly described setting; 2 or 3 main characters well-developed but remain unchanged throughout the book, whereas the secondary characters are one-dimensional; suspenseful but slow-paced, deliberately sacrificing pacing in order to increase suspense; educational, with lots of knowledge revealed through exposition; does not deal with any philosophical themes or any so-called universal truths (and in fact pointedly rejects such notions, instead emphasizing distinctions and hierarchies); avoids using symbols. Would such a book be considered middlebrow?  (BTW, did I just accidentally describe The Hunt for Red October?) 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 06:58, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I, personally, might well consider it middlebrow, but someone else might not. However, aspects you didn't mention, but which I myself would consider important, would be the quality and style of the prose: prose quality might be definable/measurable to an extent, style more a matter of personal taste. Much might depend on why one was seeking to determine the book's "brow height".
 * FWIW, I'd judge the majority of the fiction I prefer to be middle- or lowbrow. Its been thirty years since I read The Hunt for Red October (since you mentioned it), and on memory I'd place it slightly below the mid/low "cut", but I'm sure others would differ, and I might change my mind on a re-read. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.202.211.191 (talk) 15:22, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * The reason I didn't mention the quality of the prose is because I don't know how it's defined. So, if you can give me the metrics for prose quality, I can specify this parameter too. 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 21:57, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Germany or Deutschland?
During the Olympics, German teams had "Germany" on the back of their shirts rather than Deutschland. Is that even a word in German? Why the English? They mostly speak Portuguese in Brazil. SpinningSpark 16:15, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The Olympics are always bilingual, or trilingual - they use English and French, plus the native language of the host country if that is neither of those two. Wymspen (talk) 17:20, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Ok, but those shirts were monolingual (French = Allemagne, Portuguese = Alemanha). They had clearly decided (or been told) to go with English. See here for instance. SpinningSpark 17:35, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I couldn't find anything online, but it seems likely to me that the designers might have thought that Brazilians, along with just about everybody else, would be more likely to understand English than German. Russia on the other hand, decided decided to stick with Cyrillic script. Alansplodge (talk) 17:56, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * This article here: claims "So that the German athletes really are recognized by everyone in the Olympic Village and on the streets of Rio, some pieces of clothing like the training jacket have "Germany" printed on them, instead of the formerly customary "Deutschland."" -- Jayron 32 18:03, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * In this instance, "trilingual" surely means they use one of the three, not all three at once, which would make the designs much too cluttered and difficult to read at a distance. The modern Games were instigated by a Frenchman when French was the international language of diplomacy (and is still very widely learned), and when English was fast becoming the general world lingua franca that it is now, so French or English or "Host-ish" combine to yield maximum spectator comprehension. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.202.211.191 (talk) 18:05, 8 September 2016 (UTC)


 * So how did Russia get to use a language that was none of English, French or Portuguese? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  18:49, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Who was going to stop them? I think the trilinguality is a generally observed tradition or convention rather than an iron-clad rule, and if you've been following international news lately, you may have noticed that Putin's Russia is not currently big on meekly following international conventions and expectations. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.185} 90.202.211.191 (talk) 20:03, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, very true. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:24, 9 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The word "Germany" is widely recognized by Germans, and it's become a point of pride partly thanks to the success of the Made in Germany slogan, which you generally see written in English even in German text (see for example, "Die Sandalen von Birkenstock sind nicht komplett made in Germany" ("Birkenstock sandals are not entirely made in Germany")). Smurrayinchester 09:20, 9 September 2016 (UTC)