Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2017 July 8

= July 8 =

Draft:Underwater (film)
The film has already been filmed and thus should've already been entered into the main space as custom, but it hasn't yet and the article is ready to move from draft to main space. I'm not sure what to do. I was hoping you guys could help me out by moving it to the main space if you see it fit for it. Thank you.

Here is a link to the page in question: Draft:Underwater (film). Please reach out to me on my talk page which can be found on my profile -> TheMovieGuy. THANK YOU!


 * That's not a link, it's just text. StuRat (talk) 05:09, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Link added. -- Deborahjay (talk) 06:36, 8 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Please see So you made a userspace draft.--Shantavira|feed me 06:29, 8 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The completion or release of a film signals no mandatory enforcement nor customary practice for moving a draft article to the Wikipedia mainspace. Sections are missing or incomplete, the infobox lacks some basic content, so the page is unlikely to pass review. Will you kindly consider contributing further to improve the draft and moving it towards a pageworthy state? -- Deborahjay (talk) 06:44, 8 July 2017 (UTC)


 * You have created a number of Userspace draft articles on films. Please read the procedures described in Drafts. One advantage is that it creates a Talk page for interim commenting between contributing editors. You can also get advice in the Teahouse to guide your draft's development. -- Deborahjay (talk) 06:54, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
 * There is a lot of info there. A lot more then a lot of pages in the main space. The info box is fuller there then in many pages in the main space as well. It's custom that films that have started production get their pages into the main space. This page is ready for that. More then ready. It's more then notable.  TheMovieGuy.


 * Are you not able to move it yourself? Speaking only for myself, it really doesn't seem to add anything substantive to Wikipedia yet (this part of TOO SOON seems appropriate) and should just stay where it is. See also OTHERSTUFFEXISTS for why some of your comments above do not carry much weight. However, users are encouraged to be WP:BOLD, just don't be shocked if it gets sent back to draft or user draft space. Matt Deres (talk) 02:21, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Lip-syncing animation *after* recording dub?
In what animated works, if any, have the mouth animations been redone to lip-sync them to a dub, rather than requiring the dub to fit the original "mouth flaps" or not be lip-synced at all? Why isn't reanimating the mouths standard practice even on large budgets? Neon Merlin  21:00, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I think I read somewhere about a recent film (Zootopia?) that was animated almost fully except for the mouths that had to wait for the dub recording. Probably it will get more common with modern software to animate from sound. --Error (talk) 21:32, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Shades of Clutch Cargo! ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:45, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "requiring the dub to fit the original..." The voices are recorded first and the animation comes after (ref); that's been standard in English language cartoons for a long, long, time (apparently Japanese cartoons do it the other way around). Some animation houses don't take much care in having the mouths articulate properly, but that doesn't mean that the animation came first. Voices get added afterward when the cartoon gets translated, but that's not quite the same thing; live action film doesn't alter actors' mouths to make them fit translations either. Matt Deres (talk) 04:30, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
 * When a movie is translated, the translation is commonly called a "dub", so that's probably what the question is about. ApLundell (talk) 19:36, 10 July 2017 (UTC)


 * You can watch videos of the prerendered video sections of the Final Fantasy games in both Japanese and English. The mouths are changed in the two. They obviously rendered a Japanese version of the video and an English version. It is not just two different audio tracks. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 11:51, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Kampfball
This picture, labelled „Kampfball über den Dächern“, 1930, Österreich, © Lothar Rübelt shows a sport or exercise apparently consisting of two almost naked men throwing a big ball held by cords to both men's wrists. Looking around, I found a film I cannot see with the description:
 * Kampfball [Battle ball] was a team sport. The point of Battle Ball was to move a medicine ball through the opposing goal by any means possible. Throwing, rolling, pushing, carrying or any combination thereof was permitted to move the ball forward. Any defense was allowed, even holding, punching, or tackling. Battle Ball was one of the most popular sports in Nazi Germany, especially in the Hitler Youth and SA. It supposedly promoted a "decisive take-action not think" and a "goal orientated" kind of approach to problem solving. It also certainly promoted team thinking and cooperation.

History of the Nike Swoosh has a picture that looks like this latter sport. However I am interested in the Dübelt version. It seems that Kampfball is also German for punching ball. Our articles for fightball and battleball are not related to my interest.

So, do you know of this sport involving hitting your rival with a held ball or was it just Rübelt finding an artistic use for punching balls?

Also I find some mentions of Kampfball in the Hitlerjugend sense. Maybe we could use an article on it.

German-language Wikipedia does not recognize the word.

--Error (talk) 21:28, 8 July 2017 (UTC)


 * There used to be a violent team game called "murderball" (but not any of the games described at murderball) in the UK, in which the ball had to be placed in the opposing team's goal by any physical means, as described above. An indoor version of mob football, I recall we played it a couple of times at school without any serious injury but plenty of minor ones. The game makes an appearance in the 1977 film Scum, (see the BFI synopsis) which is set in a Borstal (a youth prison). The guards use the game to encourage racial bullying, so it acquired a bad reputation after that. Alansplodge (talk) 20:14, 9 July 2017 (UTC)