Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2018 January 6

= January 6 =

Uniquely Western Martial Arts
Dear All

I am a longtime practitioner of Asian martial arts (Jiu-Jitsu and FMA to be exact) and was wondering whether there is some literature dealing with modern Western martial arts and knife fighting (knife fighting without FMA input). I am looking for purely Western martial arts, with little to no non-Western influence. Do you have any suggestions? I have checked Wikipedia`s entries for "combatives", however, it is not made clear which of these systems are only Western and which have taken some concepts and techniques from non-Western martial arts.

Thank you for your answers

I wish you all the very best--2A02:120B:2C79:D630:54EC:F65:8C21:749A (talk) 21:57, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * There's fencing. Does jousting count? We also have the article Historical European martial arts as a possible place to start.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 23:09, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestions, William Thweatt! I am aware of European Medieval Martial Arts, but I am more interested into more modern martial arts that still exist and are still taught.--178.199.157.99 (talk) 23:15, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Assuming you count Israel as "Western", you might check out Krav Maga, which was developed and is used by the Israeli military forces. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.41.3 (talk) 23:41, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * There is also a significant amount of links, arranged by region, at List of martial arts.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 00:01, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And we have a Category:Martial arts by regional origin, though it won't link you to Ecky Thump.  --Antiquary (talk) 09:48, 7 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Fencing ain't medieval. —Tamfang (talk) 08:24, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for all your suggestions. The problem is, that I am looking for purely Western martial arts, without any non-Western influences. The links you gave me often mention martial arts that draw extensively from Asian sources and are de facto Asian martial arts with a Western touch (Krav Maga if I am rightly informed although founded by Westerners is mostly based on Asian martial arts). I am not a martial arts historian (well, technically I am a medievalist, but you get my point, I am not specialized when it comes to 20th century Western martial arts), but didn't Western countries use martial arts in both world wars? A personal guess would be, that most of these combative systems must have been mostly Western, because as far as I know, East Asian martial arts weren't popular in the west before the 1960s and 1970s (although I am guessing here, I really don't know if they even had complex martial arts in these wars).--2A02:120B:2C79:D630:4C30:3595:124C:ADBD (talk) 12:59, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You might think there was no oriental influence - but the article on World War II combatives makes it clear that the training given to British troops was based on experience gained working with the Shanghai Police. You will probably have to go back to the various forms of Boxing and Wrestling to find formalised hand to hand fighting: my impression is that otherwise people just fought, using whatever methods came to hand - but without anything being codified, and without any forms of training. The military were taught to use swords, and bayonets. Fencing was a serious skill - but nothing much else. Wymspen (talk) 17:17, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Parkour? Staecker (talk) 17:36, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Maybe Pankration? I had a computer teacher in high school who ran a modern-pankration studio.  He even has a Wikipedia article, Jim Arvanitis.-- Jayron 32 19:00, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sambo? Bartitsu? :) Or even plain boxing, if you count Mesopotamia as West, or figure that the West popularized it. 93.136.29.199 (talk) 21:13, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Ice brawling, as in "I went to a fight, and a hockey game broke out." Clarityfiend (talk) 06:56, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Seriously though, if you can master jerseying people first, every other technique becomes much more efficient for you, and much less for them. Sometimes a good tangle alone can end the fight without violence, only abject panic and demoralization. It's not barbaric if they're fully conscious and aware of their (immediate) surroundings. It's also not shameful to pull down an opponent's pants during a double-leg takedown, if it's purely in the pursuit of frustration and helplessness. Not cool by the Ontario Code of Honour to steal, destroy or otherwise make inaccesible such pants after the fact, though, and you do not throw another human being's shoes in the river, but shirts are always fair game, even in winter. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:02, 8 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Greco-Roman wrestling and its offshoots. -- Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:30, 8 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Savate ? -- DanielDemaret. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.16.64.66 (talk) 09:59, 8 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Wrasslin. About as far west as you can get. DuncanHill (talk) 22:43, 8 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Quarterstaff: "During the 16th century quarterstaves were favoured as weapons by the London Masters of Defence. Richard Peeke, in 1625, and Zachary Wylde, in 1711, refer to the quarterstaff as a national English weapon. By the 18th century the weapon became popularly associated with gladiatorial prize playing. A modified version of quarterstaff fencing, employing bamboo or ash staves and protective equipment adapted from fencing, boxing, and cricket was revived as a sport in some London fencing schools and at the Aldershot Military Training School during the later 19th century. Works on this style were published by Thomas McCarthy and by Allanson-Winn and Phillips-Wolley". Alansplodge (talk) 10:49, 11 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I woulds have mentioned the revivalist Company of Maisters [sic] much earlier, but the OP did say "I am aware of European Medieval Martial Arts, but I am more interested into more modern martial arts that still exist and are still taught." Since Terry Brown and his ilk are reviving mediaeval skills (which however were still practiced for exhibition purposes as late as the 19th century) rather than inventing modern ones, I thought the OP's stipulation ruled them out. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.41.3 (talk) 16:35, 11 January 2018 (UTC)