Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2018 June 27

= June 27 =

Lack Of Latino (Specifically Mexican American) representation on Wiki
I can't be the only one that has noticed the serious lack of Mexican American representation on Wikipedia? I could list several that are deserving. How do I go about getting a wiki page created for my favorite comedian Steve Trevino? http://www.dallasobserver.com/event/steve-trevino-8122549 http://www.cbs8.com/story/36160965/comedian-steve-trevino-listens-to-his-wife-sometimes https://www.newsobserver.com/entertainment/arts-culture/article156204859.html https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1990160/ https://www.firstorderhistorians.com/2014/07/28/7-questions-with-steve-trevino/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:B720:CD80:F0DC:377B:B2B:580C (talk) 23:12, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
 * If you're going to write an article about anyone or anything, here's the steps you should follow:
 * 1) Gather as many professionally-published mainstream academic or journalistic sources you can find. IMDB doesn't count, because it's user generated.
 * 2) Focus on just the ones that are not dependent upon or affiliated with the subject, but still specifically about the subject and providing in-depth coverage (not passing mentions). If you do not have at least three such sources, the subject is not yet notable and trying to write an article at this point will only fail.
 * 3) Summarize those sources from step 2, adding citations at the end of them. You'll want to do this in a program with little/no formatting, like Microsoft Notepad or Notepad++, and not in something like Microsoft Word or LibreOffice Writer.
 * 4) Combine overlapping summaries (without arriving at new statements that no individual source supports) where possible, repeating citations as needed.
 * 5) Paraphrase the whole thing just to be extra sure you've avoided any copyright violations or plagiarism.
 * 6) Use the Article wizard to post this draft and wait for approval.
 * 7) Expand the article using sources you put aside in step 2 (but make sure they don't make up more than half the sources for the article, and make sure that affiliated sources don't make up more than half of that).
 * Doing something besides those steps typically results in the article not being approved, or even in its deletion. Ian.thomson (talk) 23:14, 27 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Just one tip, one triggered by this non-American seeing the title of this section - Don't use the term "Latino", and if possible avoid "Mexican American". Those terms are particular to the United States, and can be confusing to people from elsewhere. Every American seems to have their own definition of the terms, and they vary a lot. The other 95% of the world generally has no idea what you're talking about. HiLo48 (talk) 23:48, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
 * What would be ambiguous about Mexican-American? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:02, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * For starters, there's how far back in their history/ancestry the Mexican bit was. Born there? Parent born there?, Etc. Is it just Mexican "Indians", or people whose ancestors emigrated to Mexico from somewhere else? Do you differentiate between the different kinds? Then there's the issue of "Who says so?" If this Aussie became American I suppose you would call me Australian American (or is it only "real" foreigners, who don't speak English, or have dark skin, that get the double barrelled thing?) What about my kids? Their kids? Oh, and then there's my existing ancestry - bits of Scottish, French, Swedish, English, and I'm not sure what else. Where does that come in? HiLo48 (talk) 07:12, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I note that Alistair Cooke is described as British-American, whereas Muhammad Ali, who many would describe as African-American, is labeled American in the article. (I wouldn't doubt there could have been some debate about that.) It seems the OP's main complaint is specifically about this guy Steve Trevino. One way to get a sense of article potential is to see how many references already exist within Wikipedia. In the case of his guy, there aren't very many that I see. And that could be a problem, but not necessarily a show-stopper. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 07:12, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * My impression is that, while most Americans think the double barrelled labelling is a good thing, when pushed for precise definitions, and confronted with questions like mine above, lots of uncertainty and inconsistency arises. I wonder what, precisely, makes Steve Trevino a Mexican American? Is he that alone? HiLo48 (talk) 07:24, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I recall Whoopi Goldberg saying, "I've been to Africa. I'm not African, I'm American." Another example of this usage (or not) is Gloria Estefan, who was born in Cuba and is a naturalized American citizen, and hence is listed as Cuban-American. In the case of this Trevino guy, it appears he was born in Texas, so while he may be of Mexican or Latino ancestry, he would be American. The OP (who so far has just this one entry) seems to be griping mostly about the lack of an article about Trevino. I see no evidence to support the complaint of bias against Latino celebrities. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:28, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * What does "Latino" mean? In simple, unambiguous, unarguable terms please. HiLo48 (talk) 11:53, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Latino. But anyway you are not the first to realize that race is a social construct. The term has some meaning, but it's not "simple, unambiguous, unarguable". Staecker (talk) 12:01, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * It wasn't even obvious to me that it is a racial label. That article is not terribly helpful. (No offence to you Staecker.) It simply highlights how confusing a mess people get into when they insist on labelling others. HiLo48 (talk) 12:07, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Latino is short for latinoamericano, the Spanish for "Latin American." (Feminine latinoamericana.) Latin America is pretty much everything in the western hemisphere that's south of the USA. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:10, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * So... There must be a bunch of Latin American Americans? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 22:43, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Bugs - geographically, your definition is fine, but it doesn't really define which people are Latinos? People born in that area? People born in the US but with ancestors from that area? How many ancestors? How far back? Etc, etc, etc HiLo48 (talk) 23:35, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, this Trevino guy may be of Latino ancestry, but he was apparently born in Texas, so he's American. That doesn't mean guys like the OP won't try to lump him in with Latinos. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:44, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * However, there's George Lopez, who was born in the USA but is currently tagged as Mexican-American. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:14, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * A vast number of American-born Americans are called "Italian-American", "Jewish-American", "African-American" and the like. Why should people with Mexican heritage be any exception? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  00:21, 30 June 2018 (UTC)
 * There seems to be a lack of consistency or uniformity. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:36, 30 June 2018 (UTC)