Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2018 May 1

= May 1 =

Cornerbacks passing
I have an interest in, but no great knowledge of American Football.

Mike Hughes (American football) is a Cornerback. Our article says that he passed for a certain number of yards/touchdowns one season. Does that mean he was playing on the offence [as well] or would that be on turnovers by the defensive unit?

Apologies for being an ignorant Limey. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:46, 1 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Hughes played quarterback at New Bern High School. Therefore, he passed and rushed on offense. In college, he was moved to defense. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 09:44, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Those seem like totally different skills. Is it common to switch like that so far into a Football career? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:47, 1 May 2018 (UTC)


 * In high school, the quarterback tends to be the best player on the field. If you take all the quarterbacks for all the high schools and put them in college, there are far too many people for far too few positions. So, they move. Going from quarter to corner is a logical move. The cornerback needs to know how a receiver runs his route. That is what a quarterback needs to know as well. The cornerback need to know when the quarterback will throw the pass and where it will go. That is what the quarterback needs to know. So, he just moved positions from the start of the pass to the end of the pass. Because he is fast, he can make that move. Get someone like Roethlisberger on corner and he is too slow to be effective even if he knows exactly where the ball is going to go.
 * Mike Hughes in particular played both sides of the ball in high school. While he was quarterback - his main position. He also played cornerback. He was ranked #3 in North Carolina his senior year. I've been curious about his earlier years. He was on the team all through high school. I don't know if he made quarterback his senior year or if he was quarterback earlier. I'm sure someone from new Bern knows. Here (South Carolina), he was only known as the guy who was going to go to SC, but then he missed the signing cutoff and went to Florida instead. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 10:10, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Really interesting. Thank you. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:56, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * (ec)The article says Hughes played quarterback at New Bern High School. Hence the (forward) passing stats. By definition, cornerbacks do not throw forward passes. They can throw lateral or backwards passes if a situation requires it, but no forward passes while playing the cornerback position. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:58, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * This morning, it only mentioned he'd played cornerback. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:32, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Kudos to whoever clarified it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:43, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Also, "Hughes was ranked the No. 3 cornerback in North Carolina" - is that claim supported in the source that's cited? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:50, 1 May 2018 (UTC)


 * You can see it on his page at UCF: http://ucfknights.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6024 209.149.113.5 (talk) 11:56, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
 * And it says that the player rankings come from a website called Scout.com. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:10, 1 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Just as an aside; in American football, as players move along to higher levels of football, increased specialization becomes the norm, for many of the reasons noted above (at lower levels, more skilled players are rarer, at higher levels game plans become more complex, so players need to specialize more, etc.) There are many examples of NFL players who played multiple positions at lower levels and specialized at higher levels, or of players who changed positions.  The move from quarterback to wide receiver is common enough; Julian Edelman, Antwaan Randle-El and Hines Ward are all examples of top-level players who made the switch at some point.  Brian Mitchell went from quarterback to kick returner, Scott Frost played went from QB to safety, etc.  -- Jayron 32 12:39, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Related question
Historically, as I understand it, it was once usual for the same players to stay on the field when the ball changed possession, similarly to baseball. Are there any milieus today where American or Canadian football is played with players commonly "going both ways"? --69.159.62.113 (talk) 21:39, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * According to One-platoon system, these days it's mostly high-school level. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:04, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * As mentioned, low-level games can have too few players per team to have 11 offense and 11 defense players who don't cross sides. In professional and collegiate football, you are given a rather high allotment of players per team, such as 53 players per team in the NFL. With 11 players on the field at a time, it is easy to have 22 players with 22 backups and even more backups behind that. There is absolutely no benefit to having a player on the field non-stop. It is more common to swap players out a lot. But, there are players who play multiple positions. Deon Sanders is the first to come to mind. Bo Jackson is another player who frequently slipped to the other side of the ball. There are also many instances where a player is placed on the other side of the ball for some sort of trick play. When the other team is expected to throw a Hail Mary pass, you put all your offense receivers on the field as defensive players. Alternately, assume you are on offense with less than 1 yard to go. If you have a huge defensive player with good feet, like Dontari Poe, you can put him in on offense as a running back. 209.149.113.5 (talk) 14:09, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, Bo Jackson only played running back. He also played Baseball, but that's an entirely different sport.  It is rare for offensive players to also play defense, or visa-versa, though it does happen, however invariably they play only on limited downs.  As mentioned, Deion Sanders  played both cornerback and wide receiver, but while he was an every down player at corner, his use on offense was limited to a handful of plays each game, he probably only in for 5-10 snaps on offense in any game, and maybe targeted 3-4 times.  And he only did that for a year or two.  Sometimes teams will have to press an athletic player into service out-of-position when injuries cause holes on the team; Troy Brown played most of his career as a wide receiver, but in 2004 the Patriots defense was so banged up that his coach moved him to cornerback for most of the season, as they had plenty of wideouts, and Brown played mostly defense that year.  There have been a few players who have changed the other way as well, Devin Hester, primarily a kick returner, was nominally a cornerback when he entered the league, but his coaches found him more valuable on offense, so he moved to wide receiver, he was never a starter at either position however.  There are also "gimmick" players, who come in because the coach wants to confuse the defense, or because they like the player and want to try something fun.  William "The Refrigerator" Perry was used by Mike Ditka on the mid-80s Bears teams like that, an-almost-400 pound running back certainly causes problems... Similarly Mike Vrabel, a linebacker, confounded defenses when Belichick put him in at Tight End in goal line situations.  Vrabel was so good at running exactly 1 play (a goal line flare), that he has 10 career receiving touchdowns, on 10 receptions.   Other than those few scenarios, you could probably count on two hands the total number of players who have played significant time on both sides of the ball in the past 50 years; but even then none of them were full time starters on both sides.  The last "60-minute man" who played as a full time starter on both sides of the ball was Chuck Bednarik, and he retired from the NFL in 1962.  -- Jayron 32 16:28, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Dick Butkus sometimes played offense during extra point attempts, and one time in 1971 he actually caught a point-scoring pass when the snap was too high to make the kick. But that kind of thing was rare. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:07, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I just have to mention the great Jim Thorpe, who could do it all: offense, defense and kicking. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:41, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Or Sammy Baugh, who one year led the league in passing, punting distance, and defensive interceptions, a triple crown record that will never be equalled. Still, this is some 20  years before the two platoon system became standard.  -- Jayron 32 00:46, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
 * While Thorpe was not a hall of famer at baseball, he did manage to play for parts of six major league seasons, and of course was also a great Olympian. Quite an all-around athlete. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:03, 4 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks, folks. Particularly to Dweller for citing the article I didn't think would exist. --69.159.62.113 (talk) 06:06, 4 May 2018 (UTC)