Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2018 September 16

= September 16 =

Is it illegal for marathoners to agree to a predetermined finishing order?
So for 1 race or even like a 4 year deal any members of the cabal of 2 or more that manage to stay ahead of all non-cabal members alternate drafting duty till the last few meters when they give way to a predetermined finishing order. Which is negotiated (i.e. they could agree to a win/place/show percentage implied by the bookie odds of a race they agree on, or more egalitarian than that in return for something like the best runner winning less than expected but richer races). It seems like it should be illegal. I am not suggesting that anyone might be doing this, I wouldn't even know if there's rumors. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:19, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * If there's money involved, probably so. See Match fixing, for example. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:31, 16 September 2018 (UTC)


 * [Edit conflict] I believe that in most sports it is illegal for a competitor (or someone acting on that person's behalf) to bet on a race/match/whatever that the competitor is involved in, and in some to bet on any event in that sport whether the person is involved or not: this is touched on in the more general article Sports betting, but I'll look for a better reference. In addition, Match fixing is illegal in pretty well all sports. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.208.172.36 (talk) 18:33, 16 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Right but if they don't leak the plan or bet, just use the odds to get everyone to want to cooperate without arguing about how often each runner should win or "bribes" (few would want to win less often than he thinks he would (without some compensation like above expected average prize)) then they'd just be conspiring to know their cash flow in advance without distorting the odds like how often the favorite wins. Sort of like a futures hedger. Which is not as bad as betting on it but still unfair to the other runners. Plus that way would be least suspicious, especially if they're skilled at evading staged result detection. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:11, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * What would be their motivation for fixing it? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:06, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Being able to use some of your rainy day fund for stuff or illiquid investments like the S&P500 cause you have when prize money slumps aren't scheduled and how bad they are when they are. Once they trust their comrades of course. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:22, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * If you don't bet on yourselves, and don't tell anyone else it's fixed, what's in it for you? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:48, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * You'd tell at least one other frontrunner so he can agree or reject or backstab you. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:22, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * What would be the advantage to finishing in second place? Why would someone willingly do that? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:39, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
 * If he reciprocates the next time. Then no chance of losing both races, less winnings volatility. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:51, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
 * It strikes me that one of the two is a fool. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:06, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Haha. Maybe the world #1 and 2 could be friends or brothers of similar skill one day and be able to collude without backstabbing. Also the runner who brought it up would look slightly less suspicious if the first winner's decided by the next Powerball number being odd or even or something.
 * So the one says to other, "Let me win this time and I'll let you win next time"? And if the first guy doesn't live up to his end of it later, who's the second one going to complain to? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:58, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Not everybody in this world is a selfish moron; some people actually cooperate and collaborate. 107.15.157.44 (talk) 06:16, 17 September 2018 (UTC) ...
 * And violate the rules in the process? How is that not being a "moron"? Rather than running such a risk, they would be better off to simply agree to split their net proceeds. Meanwhile, someone could box most of this thing up, as it has strayed far from the original question, which has already been answered. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:39, 17 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Maybe this is as close as it gets to the OP's question (from the 2016 Olympics).  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 19:51, 20 September 2018 (UTC)