Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2019 August 4

= August 4 =

Is current run rate the last x overs, last half innings or last full innings?
Or even both teams since day 1? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 15:04, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Current run rate is across the current innings, update to the most recent ball. The other stats often cited are run rate required (which is from that point to the end of the match) and the run rate across the last 5 or 10 overs. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 16:03, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * So a half inning which equals an innings but half is dropped when context makes clear but no one says 18 innings unless there actually are 18 innings in which case it's 36 half innings. The side that's in goes out to go in etc. one is better. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:50, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry, you lost me with the third word. Cricket has no concept of a "half inning" (or even "half innings"). What do you mean? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 19:01, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * If you counted innings the baseball way then Test would have only 2 innings and limited overs would have only 1. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:28, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Test in fact has only 2 innings, and limited overs has 1 innings... Don't they? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:14, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * (And we say "only" in terms of counting. Obviously, the "only" 2 innings can run for days.) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:16, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * They call the bottom of the second the fourth innings or [Team Name] second innings. Always I think. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:54, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * And it also depends on whether you're talking about Test cricket or limited overs cricket. In the former, both sides will typically have two innings each.  In the latter, just one.  But in  all  cases, Dweller's explanation relating to run rate is spot on.  Comparisons to baseball here are not helpful. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:04, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure the OP even has it right about baseball. It's convenient to talk about half innings in reference to the offense and defense switching places, but a pitcher who pitches a regulation-length complete game is credited with 9 innings pitched, not 9 "half-innings" pitched. Besides that, "run rate" is not a term used in baseball, nor is "overs". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:39, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Everyone knows the same dude won't pitch for both teams the same game except possibly in a pickup game so innings pitched is unlikely to be ambiguous to anyone. There were 17 runs in an inning today! is ambiguous but we'd usually just say the Sox scored 17 runs in an inning or there were 17 runs in the top of the 6th or something like that which would be unambiguous without having to say half inning. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:09, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * What does that have to do with run rate and innings in cricket? The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 20:32, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Happy to answer any other sensible questions about cricket. I've got all that covered (I used to hold a qualification in the sport actually...) The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 21:18, 4 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Sure. Did something happen by the second innings this Ashes that made big innings easier? Which of the Test stadiums favor the batting and fielding team the most on average? Has a spectator ever tampered with the ball? What prevents an unsporting fielder from pretending to trip (after throwing the ball to himself) so that his hand smashes the ball into the ground? Fear of the umpires calling that ball tampering? Is the batsman's faceguard ever the right spacing for the ball to get wedged there without falling out and what does that count as if the batsman didn't do anything wrong? Surely he can't just score at will till the next break with the ball in his helmet. Who is allowed to remove that ball if the next ball will not be a new one? About how far can the ball bounce off a batsman's gear (besides the bat or glove) if it hits the right place with pace? What's the most runs that have scored from one instance of that without an error by the fielding side like an overthrow? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 23:44, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Did something happen by the second innings this Ashes that made big innings easier? You mean in the First Test of the Ashes. A few factors. All moisture will have been zapped from the pitch by the sun. Remember, in cricket, the ball [nearly] always bounces before it reaches the batsman, so pitch conditions are vital. Alao, England are a bowler short, because of an injury to Jimmy Anderson that occurred after the start of the match. Cricket substitution laws allow a replacement fielder, but they aren't allowed to bat or bowl. The rest of England's attack was wearied by its efforts in the first innings and another superb innings by Steve Smith second time around. And Australia batted better and England didn't bowl as well as first time round. But it's mostly the pitch IMHO. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:24, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Which of the Test stadiums favor the batting and fielding team the most on average Best: Antigua Recreation Ground, West Indies Worst: Carisbrook, New Zealand (reference) The difference (38-25=13 per wicket) is worth 130 runs per innings, which is a huge amount. Beware, that's over all Test history. Some grounds' averages will be distorted by being bowler-friendly 140 years ago. Headingley was a batsman's graveyard in the 1980s, but was a batting paradise in the 1930s. Lord's cricket ground had a notorious "ridge" that allegedly aided pace bowlers in the 70s, but is long since gone. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:30, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Has a spectator ever tampered with the ball? Possibly. But I'm not aware of it ever coming to light. It would be fairly obvious and the ball can always be changed by the umpires. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:37, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I think the ball had to be changed yesterday because it landed in a glass of wine following one of the sixes! Spike &#39;em (talk) 10:12, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I once heard a player asking a spectator to rub the ball into the gravel on one side - it was being retrieved from behind a fence at a ground. We laughed; he said "no, seriously"... Blue Square Thing (talk) 16:38, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Which of the Test stadiums favor the batting and fielding team the most on average? you can look up all manner of statistics using Statsguru from ESPN. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 08:36, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Has a spectator ever tampered with the ball? not that I'm aware of, certainly not which has been noticed and/or reported. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 08:36, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * What prevents an unsporting fielder from pretending to trip (after throwing the ball to himself) so that his hand smashes the ball into the ground? Fear of the umpires calling that ball tampering? sportsmanship and the fact that all players know they are being watched by thousands of spectators and dozens of high resolution television cameras. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 08:36, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Is the batsman's faceguard ever the right spacing for the ball to get wedged there without falling out and what does that count as if the batsman didn't do anything wrong? Surely he can't just score at will till the next break with the ball in his helmet. Who is allowed to remove that ball if the next ball will not be a new one? faceguards (helmets) differ around the world, but read more on Phillip Hughes to see the tragic effects of a helmet not protecting the neck.  If a ball did get wedged, the umpires would declare the ball dead and anyone could remove it at that point.  The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 08:36, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The gaps have been getting smaller in recent years, though there have been instances of the ball bursting through the gap and injuring players (such as this), or just lodged (like this). If a ball becomes lodged in any part of a batsman's equipment (including the helmet) then it is a dead-ball and play ceases to be active (so no runs can be scored). Spike &#39;em (talk) 10:12, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Understanding "dead ball" might help and of course, WP:WHAAOE: Dead_ball --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:29, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 *  About how far can the ball bounce off a batsman's gear (besides the bat or glove) if it hits the right place with pace? do the math. Top fast bowlers operate at around 90 mph so feel free to work it out for yourself.  It is fully conceivable that a ball could bounce off a helmet and go for at least a four. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 08:36, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Further to this, the ball has to hit the bat for a six to be scored, so even if if deflected off a helmet straight over the boundary, it would still be 4 leg byes. Spike &#39;em (talk) 10:12, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * And 4 leg byes from a glance off the leg / thigh pads is fairly frequent (it happened twice in the first innings of the current match). Spike &#39;em (talk) 10:54, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * But 5 if the helmet is on the field of play instead of being worn.... The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 13:26, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Well that's for a fielder's helmet, rather than the batsman's. I don't know what would happen if the batsman left his helmet lying around on the ground and the ball hit it... I suspect no runs and a ticking off would ensue. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 15:00, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, clarification accepted.  It would be most unsporting of a batsman to lay down a helmet at, say, silly mid-off and just continually aim for it in the hope of gaining five runs each time.  Perhaps an avenue our antipodean friends could explore.... (irony, no harm intended....) The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 16:58, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * What's the most runs that have scored from one instance of that without an error by the fielding side like an overthrow? Again, see Statsguru. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 08:37, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

I see that the ever-helpful and knowledgable TRM has got the rest, so I'll rest now. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:38, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Statistics are presented decimally, thus (ignoring the complication of defective deliveries) 7 balls = 1.2 overs, 14 balls = 2.3 overs, 21 balls = 3.5 overs, 28 balls = 4.7 overs and 35 balls = 5.8 overs.  In Australia, the over used to comprise eight balls.   This is similar to greyhound racing, where in Britain some races used to have 8 runners (compared to the normal 6).   I don't know how Australia compares. 2A00:23C4:7916:5100:B5:BE45:9F68:23D1 (talk) 18:27, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Statistics are presented fake decimally, 7 balls is 1.1, except when doing arithmetic. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:03, 6 August 2019 (UTC)