Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2019 March 9

= March 9 =

Less Repetitive Use of She In Kylie Jenner Kourtney and Khloe Kardashian's Articles.
I had done this to Kylie's talk page about her surname being used instead of she after opening sentence of her occupations of a model TV personality and entrepreneur respectively like in her case it should be: "Jenner has starred in the E! reality television series Keeping Up With the Kardashians since October 14, 2007...."

That goes for Khloe and Kourtney too, cause she shouldn't be used all the time. It makes the article look very out of place. And as for Kim herself, her surname should NOT be repeated more than once after occupations of a model and TV personality respectively. Yes, the you-know-what tape from 2003 made her famous at the ripe young age of 26. Someone better reply to this suggestion.

Primarily sourced from: en.wikipedia.org/w/Kylie_Jenner, en.wikipedia.org/w/Kim_Kardashian.

Bye,

67.81.163.178 (talk) 22:47, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * If you have problems with the articles, you should mention them at the article talk pages not here. In this case, Talk:Kylie Jenner and Talk:Kim Kardashian. Nil Einne (talk) 05:30, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I see that you've already tried that. Probably one of the reasons you're not getting much attention is because others aren't really seeing the problem. I had a quick look at both articles and both seem to use their surnames a lot and she sometimes. I copied the text excluding the infobox, the TOC, the references and tables at the bottom but including any image captions, and a quick word count shows 25 occurrences of she plus 74 of Jenner and 30 of Kylie on her page for Kylie Jenner. On Kim Kardashian and 34 of she plus 92 of Kardashian, 17 Kim, 1 Kimberly and 10 West. So both seem similar, rather than there being too many 'she' on Kylie and too few/too many Kardashian as I think you are suggesting. (Or maybe you are simply suggesting there are two many 'she' for both, I'm slightly confused.) By way of comparison, let's look at Brie Larson. It was promoted to featured article back in December last year so was considered one of our best works which includes the writing. I'll go back to mid January to include any fixes after promotion and avoid any of the recent stupidity that has affected it [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brie_Larson&oldid=878326521]. There are 105 she plus 97 Larson, 3 Desaulniers, 9 Brie and 2 Brianne. Let's look at Michelle Williams (actress), another recently promoted features article, it's 112 she plus 8 Michelle and 136 Williams. So if anything both articles may have too few she! But still, it's going to depend on the article and, in a less developed article or for other reasons it may fit better. Also in both cases there are probably more use of the surname (well and maybe other names) in ways which are a direct reference in the article to just the subject than for our FAs. E.g. Keeping up with the Kardashians or Jenner sisters. I don't think there's one 'right' amount anyway, there is going to be a range that works well and it will depend on the writer etc. Anyway, I also looked at Teresa Sampsonia another recently promoted featured article albeit on a 17th century noblewoman in part due to the difficulty finding recently promoted FAs on women. In this case there are 46 she plus 68 Teresa, 9 Sampsonia, 26 Shirley. Nil Einne (talk) 06:36, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

I did do that on Kylie's talk page. No one has taken request of she Kourtney and Khloe having their last names being repeated. You should take a peek of that query and tell if it's a yes or no for that to happen.

Breaking up,

67.81.163.178 (talk) 19:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not particularly interested in your suggestion or the pages and considering that the two examples you cited don't seem to have a general problem, I don't see any reason why anyone would bother to look at the Kourtney and Khloe examples either. BTW, even if we deal with the specifics of your proposal, with all 3 FAs I outlined 'she' is used for the next sentence which mostly deals with whatever they are notable for, so there's actually nothing unusual about the Jenner example offhand. It is true in the Kim Kardashian page, 'Kardashian' is used instead of 'she'. But despite the unclarity of your complaint, I assume you weren't proposing that Jenner use 'Jenner' but Kardashian use 'she'. And it may very well be the writing of that article means Kardashian fits better, it's not like there's a lack of pronouns in the opening paragraph, since there are 2 her and one she. So 3 or even if you count the she and her family together in you get 2. That Kardashian is the only use of her surname besides the beginning or usages which are direct references to her. Incidentally 2 pronouns is the same as in the respective opening paragraph of each FAs I listed, and Williams does include another use of Williams in the opening paragraph. Jenner only has that single 'she' you keep protesting about. Anyway ultimate point is if you want anyone to take you seriously, you need a much better explanation and outline of why there's a problem and precisely what you're proposing or you're just going to be ignored. Frankly even if you do genuinely find evidence of a problem which I doubt, it's probably going to be too minor for anyone to care. This is one case where your suggestion is too minor that your only hope is to fix it yourself. If you can't because the articles are WP:semi protected, I'd normally suggest an WP:edit request but again given the reasons I outlined this probably won't work. So you'd need to WP:register an account and make 10 constructive edits and wait 4 days to get WP:autoconfirmed. But I'd only suggest you do this if you can properly outline a problem that is genuine poor writing. If you can't and as I've said from what I've seen you haven't thus far, you're likely to be reverted since people will feel your editing is not constructive. Nil Einne (talk) 07:25, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Actually I see from [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:71.198.104.218&diff=prev&oldid=885874120] it seems you were suggesting the surname should be repeated in the Jenner case but not in the (Kim) Kardashian place. While as I said, precisely what works will depend on the actual text and is likely to vary from writer to writer, you've provided no coherent explanation why you think there should be this difference that I've seen other than some irrelevant reference to the sex tape that text mentions. That being the case, expect any request you make to be ignored, and any attempt to change it yourself to probably be reverted as you don't seem to have any sensible explanation for what you think is best when taken together. Nil Einne (talk) 12:45, 12 March 2019 (UTC)