Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2020 January 20

= January 20 =

Question about the movie, "The Passion of Joan of Arc"
I heard of this movie for the first time today, and became curious about it. On the movie's page, it says, "it was a major critical success when first released and has consistently been considered one of the greatest films ever made since 1928." The words "greatest films ever made" have a link to the page, "List of films considered the best." This link is ostensibly a reference/citation, to prove the veracity of this claim. But on the linked page, no mention of this film is made! Is the problem with the statement, or with the "best films" page? Shouldn't there be some reference to the film on the "best films" page? KelpTheGreat (talk) 01:48, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The snippet was inserted in on June 11 2014. At that time the  did have a section listing this film. Appears that one has changed in the interim without updating the other. Nanonic (talk) 02:51, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , this demonstrates fairly vividly why Wikipedia is not a reliable source, and things such as this need a direct citation to a reliable secondary source. Same goes for lists such as alumni of universities or notable people from a city, etc. Elizium23 (talk) 02:55, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Lists of alumni are factual. "Greatest" anything is likely to be very subjective. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:02, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
 * , the fact that we actually have an article on that topic proves that the 'best film' opinion can be verifiable and sourceable. Plenty of critics, magazines and websites publish lists of the best things, and therefore we can, and should, cite those sources wherever necessary. Elizium23 (talk) 04:07, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay then, can someone who's more knowledgeable than I edit either the Joan page or the greatest films page so that the statement on one will match the other? I don't know whether it'd be better to remove the quote on the Joan page, or re-add a reference to the movie being highly-reviewed on the greatest films page, or something else entirely.KelpTheGreat (talk) 22:24, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there are many lists of the supposed "greatest" films. For this one, I can tell you that Leonard Maltin gave it 4 stars and a glowing review, especially of the central character's performance. But does that make it one of the 100 greatest, or whatever? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:13, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it does or not, that's why I'm asking if someone who is more knowledgeable in this area can fix the article(s).KelpTheGreat (talk) 23:30, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
 * You want others to find a "valid" source for an opinion? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:14, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
 * You seem to be having trouble understanding the issue here, so let me see if I can help you. There is a page called List of films considered the best. If a film is on that list, it's because some reliable source has described it as one of the best. That's not an opinion, it's a verifiable fact. The OP is asking if there is such a source for The Passion of Joan of Arc. Simple as that. --Viennese Waltz 15:19, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
 * What is the source currently being used for the list? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:51, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
 * There are many. See List of films considered the best. --Viennese Waltz 08:21, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Then it should be easy for the OP to reconcile the matter. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:42, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah that's kind of why they posted here, to ask for help. --Viennese Waltz 10:49, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I think there's been bit of a misunderstanding around that statement in the lead. There's no circular referencing going on here. The Passion of Joan of Arc has consistently appeared on 'best of' polls in the decades since its release, and relatively recently too. This is clear from the the "Legacy" section, especially the third paragraph, which goes into fully-cited detail on the subject. The lead, being a concise overview of the article as a whole, summarises this by stating the film "has consistently been considered one of the greatest films ever made", which is a more-or-less adequate summary of that section. Is this enough to warrant its inclusion on our List of films considered the best article? Perhaps not, as that list seems more concerned with those that have topped polls, but that's for the editors of that article to decide and the citations are there at the Passion article if they want to use them. Steve  T • C 20:54, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Differences between PS3 version and PS4 release?
As a lot of you probably already know, some video games originally released for Playstation 3 were also released for Playstation 4 at a later date especially if they are popular since Playstation 4 apparently has no backward compatibility. Examples include Dynasty Warriors 8 and Dark Souls. Are there any noticeable differences between the PS3 versions and PS4 versions for these games? 70.95.44.93 (talk) 12:39, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't know about the two you mentioned specifically, but Skyrim was re-mastered for release on the PS4 (and XBOne). This included bug fixes as well as an upgraded experience by way of moving to 64-bit computing from 32-bit computing. In addition, the PS4 and XBOne also allowed the use of game mods, which had been unavailable to console users until then. Grand Theft Auto V was re-relased as well, with similar upgrades to graphics, etc. detailed here. Matt Deres (talk) 19:53, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Do you know where I could find a list of PS3 games that have been released on PS4? 70.95.44.93 (talk) 05:11, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
 * That would be quite a long list. There's a nifty tool on Wikipedia which allows you to combine categories. When I combined the categories for PS3 and PS4 games, 417 games came up. --Viennese Waltz 07:50, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
 * In addition, we have a list of re-mastered games for the PS4 here. It includes games from any console, but you could drag this into Excel and filter it to only show PS3 games. I'm not sure how exhaustive or up-to-date it is. Matt Deres (talk) 16:12, 21 January 2020 (UTC)