Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2020 November 24

= November 24 =

forward pass beyond line of scrimmage
When I played football in the 60s, a forward pass had to go past the line of scrimmage to be legal. You could not pass forward to a player who was behind the line of scrimmage. I was in high school, but the NFL has the same rule. I assume the AFL had the same rule also, but we didn't get AFL games on TV. At some point, the rule changed. You can now throw a forward pass to a receiver who is behind the line of scrimmage. I've been trying to figure out when that rule changed. I assume it wasn't all at once. I assume it changed in one league at a time until it became the universal rule that exists now. Or, I'm just senile and I'm remembering it completely wrong. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 20:37, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It seems a forward pass to a player behind the line of scrimmage has always been legal. You may be thinking of throwing a forward pass from past the line of scrimmage, which has always been illegal. I may be wrong, but I've researched this for about ten minutes now and haven't found anything saying it was ever illegal. &#123;&#123;u&#124;Squeeps10&#125;&#125; {Talk} Please ping when replying . 21:19, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I played during that time and we had a few screen pass plays that were designed to be completed behind the line. There are a couple of possibilities 1) There may have been rules in the region you grew up in that were different. High school athletic associations had a variety of different rules from one another. 2) I know that smaller schools that played 6 man football used different rules from the standard game though I'm not sure of the specifics. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 01:48, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * @Jayron32 is an expert on football, much more than I, but I'm 99 percent sure there has never been such a rule. The thing about the forward pass is (1) you have to be behind the line of scrimmage when you throw it; and (2) you can only have one per scrimmage. Although it's theoretically possible the OP's school had such a rule, it's not clear why such a rule would be needed. It's possible the officials misunderstood the rule. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:38, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Pinging . &#123;&#123;u&#124;Squeeps10&#125;&#125; {Talk} Please ping when replying . 02:39, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I assume that I simply remember it wrong. It was a long time ago and I was a fullback/safety. So, I wasn't involved in passing in any way. I could also be mixing rules from other sports. I also played rugby while in Da Nang and Aussie-rules for a time at Robertson before I left the Marines. Then, when I finally got around to go to college, I was too old (and at 5'8", too short) to play even on the practice squad. So, that's where my memory ends. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 12:42, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, at least you survived. As to your question, it's something that might not occur very often, and maybe the ref who called it was ignorant of the rule. I recall when a high school ref nullified a field goal kick for being "too high". Somehow he had in mind that the ball had to go literally through the uprights, as if there was an invisible fourth side atop the goal posts. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:56, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Coincidentally, I recently happened to be looking at the CFL's rules for Canadian football. The rules for forward passing are the same, in this respect, as in the American game: see page 48 (PDF page 49). But in the section illustrating signals by the officials, on page 80 (PDF page 81) is a signal for "forward pass behind line of scrimmage", and that's the only signal shown for forward passes.  I don't get that.
 * Digression: As to "only one per scrimmage", that rule is also the same in Canadian football. Since everyone know it's the rule, you wouldn't ever expect to see it violated, but I once did. The first attempted pass was blocked by a defender and the ball bounced straight back into the quarterback's hands, and he (I think it was Anthony Calvillo), absentmindedly attempted the same pass again, drawing a penalty. --174.95.161.129 (talk) 20:12, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * What you described 174 just happened to Tom Brady in the Tampa Bay-L.A. game last Sunday night. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 22:14, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Huh! I guess he forgot to watch that game where Anthony Calvillo did it. --174.95.161.129 (talk) 21:21, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That could happen in the heat of the moment. That rule book reminded me that there is one situation that can be penalized: intentional grounding. Which, by definition, is not a completed pass anyway. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:45, 25 November 2020 (UTC)


 * So there were some early forward pass rules (like 1910s early) where an incomplete pass was a live ball, where incomplete pass out of bounds were a turnover, but I've not heard of the rule the OP describes. The passing rules were pretty much in their modern form by the 1930s IIRC though.  That doesn't mean some local set of rules didn't exist, for example for an 8 a side football, or something.  If you want to actually look up the history of the rules of the game, David Nelson's The Anatomy of a Game is the definitive work, and online you should look into the PFRA, the Professional Football Researchers Association.  They may have some information. -- Jayron 32 22:35, 25 November 2020 (UTC)