Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2021 April 7

= April 7 =

Battle of Hastings in Mank
Below characters discuss about Marion Davies:

Rita: What's she like?

Mank: Why is it when you scratch a prim, starchy English schoolgirl, you get a swooning moving-picture fan who has forgotten all she ever learned about the Battle of Hastings?

Rita: Hastings. 14 October 1066, ten centigrade.

My question: Why did Mank mention "Battle of Hastings" here? Rizosome (talk) 03:27, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Worse comes to worst, you could write to the author and ask. Otherwise, see maybe Bimbo. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:37, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * It may be noted that the Battle of Hastings is traditionally considered one of the fundamental things to know about in British history. For example, consider that the book title 1066 and All That refers to it. --184.147.181.129 (talk) 07:41, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Perhaps analogous to a US schoolchild learning about the Yorktown. A pivotal moment in English history. Alansplodge (talk) 08:43, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Correct. The Battle of Hastings is one of the most important battles in English history. One reason is that it explains why the "English" we speak has such a French influence compared to earlier "English." It is also a warning. The King of England was eager to go straight into battle with a battle-worn army that was greatly outnumbered. He lost. He died. If he was more sensible, he would have negotiated with the King of Normandy, perhaps giving something away in the process, and put off the battle until he was better prepared. In American context, it would be like saying that a person who was educated in America had forgotten all she learned about the Revolutionary War. At a minimum, most Americans know that it was a fight against the British, George Washington was around doing something, and colonies won. (I have a personal issue here that is off topic. I work with a lot of people who were born in China and became U.S. citizens. They know a hell of a lot more about American history than the Americans I work with.) 97.82.165.112 (talk) 19:30, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * If they were born in mainland China, how much do they know about their own country's bloody history? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:51, 9 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Are you going to post here every time there's a line of dialogue in Mank that you don't understand? Just wondering. --Viennese Waltz 10:23, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

No. Rizosome (talk) 15:49, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Why did you delete part of your original post? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:30, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

I thought it's not necessary to the body of main question Rizosome (talk) 23:52, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * It provides context, of a sort. Although, following up on WV's question, how about you read the whole thing and then post a full list of questions? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:03, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * "Read" the whole thing? It's a film, not a book. --Viennese Waltz 19:42, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I figured he's either watching it over and over, or slowly working his way through the film, repeatedly hitting "pause" and posing his next question here. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:49, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Now, I cut short my context. Anyway I follow your suggestion now onwards. Rizosome (talk) 01:10, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Roxette - The Look
I've found that Roxette's "The Look" sounds suspiciously similar to Johnny Thunder's "I'm Alive" (particularly refrain, but the rest of the song too). Searching was inconclusive, so I wonder whether there was some plagiarism involved or is it pure coincidence? 212.180.235.46 (talk) 21:37, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you have YouTube links for the both of them? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:43, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Roxette — The Look; Johnny Thunder — I'm Alive. --Lambiam 08:57, 8 April 2021 (UTC)


 * This is a list of ten pairs of pop songs that sound very similar. Rick Beato's video "The Four Chords That Killed POP Music" goes a long way to explain why so many pop songs sound alike. --Lambiam 09:19, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Sometimes the phenomenon occurs with a single artist and a single songwriter. That accounts for why several of Pet Clark's song hits sound similar, and maybe likewise for Styx, to name two. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:37, 8 April 2021 (UTC)


 * There are LOTS of songs that this happens with. There are a few  things at play here:
 * There are only a finite number of musical elements to work with (12 notes in an octave, reduced to 8 in a diatonic key, a limited number of note values, etc.) which are further constrained by the conventions of the musical form (i.e. the four chord loop, the key signature, the rhythms, AABA form, etc.) it is unsurprising that some songs would share elements, often even multiple elements.
 * Artists are often inspired by the work of others, and will use the things that inspire them in their own works. This has happened in every work of art in all of history, and will continue to happen.  It is not confined to modern pop music.
 * It is trivial, given these things, to find MANY songs that share common elements; indeed there are thousands and thousands of websites and videos that discuss the phenomenon, both in general (why do many songs share common elements) and in specific (why does this one song sound like this other song). Besides the Rick Beato video above, (and he's done MANY, explore his YouTube channel some for more on the concept), other music YouTubers such as Adam Neely and David Bennett have some REALLY good videos on the concept.  -- Jayron 32 12:44, 8 April 2021 (UTC)


 * On the other hand, sometimes it's outright theft: "Make 'Em Laugh" probably didn't make Cole Porter laugh. He likely thought the "songwriters", Betty Comden and Adolph Green, were clowns, but he didn't sue. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:06, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
 * The fact that both films using that tune were MGM productions might have figured into it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:35, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * It can depend on how much of a ripoff a song is. One of the most famous examples is "My Sweet Lord (Do Lang, Do Lang, Do Lang)". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:46, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * That is not only a famous example, but a legally important one. The lawyers were trying to claim that the original songwriters owned the chords and notes that made up those chords. George Harrison said that with all their charts and expert testimony, he began to think that they were right. In the end, he vented his frustrations with "This Song." 97.82.165.112 (talk) 11:28, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Just so y'all know, I own the exclusive copyright to the Hungarian B 𝄪  minor scale.  --Lambiam 15:12, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * That must be the famous Nota Bene. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:38, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Not to be confused with the opening of Yakety Sax, known as the Nota Benny. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.219.35.136 (talk) 19:43, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * An example of this kind of thing occurs in Yankee Doodle Dandy. Cohan is near a parade playing a march. A particular triad catches his attention. He starts whistling it. He is then seen working at his piano, with that triad becoming the center of the song, "Over There". Presumably fictionalized, but an illustration of how music can inspire other music. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:39, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Maybe a better example is how many influences the song "Sugartime" had. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:42, 9 April 2021 (UTC)