Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2021 September 5

= September 5 =

Unknown episode of another show similar to The Time Element (1958)
In 1958, Rod Serling wrote a science fiction teleplay about time travel that he produced for Desilu Playhouse called The Time Element. It would later become the seed for the Twilight Zone series. What's so strange about this teleplay, is that I'm absolutely convinced I've seen it before, with a few different changes to the script, under a different name and series, but I can't for the life of me remember the name of the episode or the series. I do, however, remember the differences.

Instead of traveling to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, in the other series the protagonist travels to some time during the French Revolution, I think, although it's possible I'm getting that wrong, and it was farther back in the past or to another time. The reason I say this, is because instead of losing his life due to the Japanese air attack in the Serling version, and then having his body disappear due to the new timeline, in this other version, the patient in the psychiatrist office (just like the Serling version) instead loses his head due to execution by guillotine in the past. When he comes back from the past, his body is missing his head, but except for those aspects, it's a very similar story to the Serling script. The problem is, I can't track it down, and I really want to find it.

I think it's extremely unlikely that this unknown episode predates Serling, and I'm guessing the writers copied Serling years later. So it is highly likely that it was made after 1958. Viriditas (talk) 11:32, 5 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I'm coming up empty. Maybe a perusal of List of time travel works of fiction will jog your memory? I tried searching for time travel french revolution with Google, but didn't find anything similar to your description. Matt Deres (talk) 15:11, 5 September 2021 (UTC)


 * That is a fascinating story . I wish I'd seen it and I hope someone can track it down for you. Two items from the 60's that involved time travel are - "The Day the Sky Fell In" episode of the The Time Tunnel which was set during the Pearl Harbor attack and the "The Reign of Terror" was the last serial of the first season of Doctor Who. Not what you are looking for but a fun coincidence. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 17:03, 5 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Looking up Rod Serling, "The Time Element", and "plagiarism" sure brings up a lot of stuff! But I've not been able to find if there was a rip one way or another on this particular story. --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 22:25, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Matt Deres, MarnetteD, and Jpgordon. With your help, I've been ruminating a bit, and some old memories have surfaced. Maybe these will help narrow it down:


 * the episode was in B&W
 * what I perceived as time travel was actually a form of hypnotic regression. I can't remember if they were actually going back in time or just reliving a past life, but it's possible it had to do with past lives instead of time travel
 * instead of one protagonist lying on a couch, I think there was a female companion in addition to the doctor in the office
 * I'm unsure of the date of production but it seemed like the mid to late 1960s
 * I've often wondered if it was an episode of Outer Limits, Night Gallery, or something similar
 * could it be something I saw on USA Up All Night?

That's all for now. Viriditas (talk) 08:10, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * ObPersonal: in the milieu of genre sf, fantasy and horror, it has long been routine for a writer to pick up an idea from a published (or broadcast) work and re-use it with their own twist, or to use a particularly useful device as part of their own worldbuilding (see Ansible, for example). This practice is accepted by nearly all genre writers, who realise that ideas are easy to come by (and not copyrightable), what really matters is giving them a novel treatment. Sometimes the repeated use of a particular concept is seen as an ongoing multi-way discussion of the underlying theme(s) involved.
 * "Plagiarism" means extensively using the actual wording of another, and is a completely different thing.
 * It's not unlikely that the general story idea under discussion was not original to Rod Serling, or to some other screenwriter if their work predated Sterling's version, but came from a yet older SF/F pulp magazine story, or some similar source. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.209.121.112 (talk) 15:55, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Plagiarism is not just using the actual wording of another person. It is also using their original ideas, even if you change up the wording.  Plagiarism is a question of ethics and academic honesty in many settings, but it is not normally illegal.  -- Jayron 32 16:09, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


 * If it's really a "hypnotic regression" story, it's unlikely to be before 1955. Hypnotic regression was a pretty obscure idea until the Bridey Murphy story entered the national spotlight that year. ApLundell (talk) 20:58, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


 * But keeping au fait with even obscure scientific (and quasi-scientific, and mythological, and . . .) ideas, and spinning stories out of them, is what science fiction writers do. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.131.169 (talk) 16:04, 8 September 2021 (UTC)


 * ApLundell, I just learned that an anthology show called Tales of Tomorrow (1951-1953) aired some Twilight Zone stories before they made it to that show, and another anthology series called Science Fiction Theatre (1955-1957) is another likely candidate. I wonder if this is where I will find my answer. I'm looking for an episode guide, but haven't found one just yet. Viriditas (talk) 09:11, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Update: I don't think this is it, but it's so darn close! "Who is This Man?" (2x3) is a 1956 episode of SFT: "Tommy Cooper's shyness is so crippling, he's failing his college courses. At the request of his sister, Dr. Bentley of the psychology department puts Tommy under hypnosis to find the cause of his fears. Instead, the young man claims to be Jack Welsch, a murderer hanged in 1888." Viriditas (talk) 09:30, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Here it is: ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:39, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

(and others) - Wow - this discussion is really weird to us - by coincidence, very recently, "wife" and I have been enjoying episodes from "Tales of Tomorrow" (ToT) and "Science Fiction Theater" (SFT) - we just now finished watching "The Crystal Egg" (ToT, S01E09) - (eps mostly from "YouTube" and the like) - has someone here been dreaming for this to happen to us? - eps of ToT are at "Tales of Tomorrow"; "IMDb/1"; "IMDb/2" - eps of SFT are at "Science Fiction Theatre"; "IMDb/1"; "IMDb/2" - after reading through the above discussion re dreams, I couldn't help think of the best related story in my experience over the years => "The Lathe of Heaven" (1971) comes to mind - by SF author "Ursula K. Le Guin" - this story has been adapted twice on film ("The Lathe of Heaven"): "The Lathe of Heaven (film)" (1980) and "Lathe of Heaven (film)" (2002) - both versions are *excellent* in our opinion - this story may not be the episode you're mostly interested in finding - but this story has a lot to do with dreams and time travel of one sort or another as I recall - and is highly recommended - iac - Stay Safe and Healthy !! - Drbogdan (talk) 01:09, 17 September 2021 (UTC)