Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2022 December 26

= December 26 =

Church and state
Every year on Christmas Eve the BBC broadcasts the Festival of Nine Lessons and Carols from King's College Chapel, Cambridge. After this year's broadcast they trailed Midnight Mass, to be broadcast "live from Leeds Cathedral, conducted by the Bishop of Leeds, the Rt Revd Marcus Stock." The broadcast was introduced in this fashion and these details were repeated afterwards, but some way through references to "Hail Mary, ever virgin, immaculately conceived" and prayers for "Pope Francis" raised the possibility that this was a Roman Catholic service. A quick check revealed that an Anglican bishop of Leeds did not exist, but a Roman Catholic one did. Any possible argument the BBC might make that there was therefore no ambiguity was negatived by my later discovery that there has been an Anglican bishop of Leeds since 2014. Apart from that, the BBC has a strict duty of impartiality imposed on it, which it observes rigorously, to such an extent that staff sometimes leave on that account. Does it include warning listeners in advance which denomination is conducting a service if it is not a default Church of England one? 2.97.22.58 (talk) 14:37, 26 December 2022 (UTC)


 * I for one have never understood what this duty entails. Suppose that on a BBC talkshow participant A claims that Japan is a member of NATO. Participant B disputes this. Cannot the host then choose the side of B and say that indeed Japan is not a NATO member? If they do this, they are not truly impartial, are they? For a more loaded example, imagine a group advocating for the free expression of "love" by adults for under-age children and demanding to be heard. Must the BBC approach this in the spirit of there always being two sides to an issue, for neither of which they can have a preference? As to broadcasting sectarian rituals, IMO true impartiality is incompatible with a notion of one sect being the "default". If it is wrong not to announce that a ritual will be popish, it is just as wrong not to announce Anglican rituals as being that. --Lambiam 19:18, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The BBC "balance" has been criticised before for giving undue weight to fringe views, for instance on climate change or Brexit. You get one in favour, and one against, giving the impression it's an even split, where that is rarely the case. For instance, in the words of former Newsnight presenter Emily Maitliss: "It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it. But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”. This mostly has to do with a very right wing government being in place at the moment, who threatens to defund the BBC if they give too much weight to views that go against the government. Fgf10 (talk) 09:29, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Any listener in the UK who actually cares about the denominations involved should, and almost certainly will, know (a) that the King's College service is Anglican, (b) that the BBC usually 'balance' it with a Catholic service, and (c) that Marcus Stock is a Catholic bishop. Most listeners (like myself) don't care, may well not be Christians of any stripe, and just like the music. While not a Christian spokesperson (being Wiccan), I don't think it's a problem for an Anglican/Catholic practitioner merely to hear a Catholic/Anglican service on the radio – as far as I'm aware, Protestants and Catholics have been holding occasional joint services for a good few decades. (Do correct me if I'm wrong.) {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.245.235 (talk) 19:56, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to figure out why a "warning" would be needed, as if the listeners might be poisoned by listening to the "wrong" denomination. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:50, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Maybe I misunderstand something, but how could it possibly be impartial for the BBC to 'warn' listeners that a particular broadcast is Catholic, yet not do so when the broadcast is Anglican? Surely this would unambiguously indicate a partiality towards Anglicanism.Anyway, I drew up a table:
 * {|class="wikitable mw-collapsible"

!Year !Location !Denomination !Source
 * +BBC Radio 4 broadcasts of Midnight Mass, 2000–2022
 * 2000
 * St Chad's Cathedral, Birmingham
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2001
 * Manchester Cathedral
 * Anglican
 * 
 * 2002
 * Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2003
 * St George's Cathedral, Southwark
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2004
 * St Chad's Cathedral, Birmingham
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2005
 * Corpus Christi Church, Leeds
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2006
 * Clifton Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2007
 * Westminster Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2008
 * Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2009
 * Leeds Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2010
 * St Chad's Cathedral, Birmingham
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2011
 * York Minster
 * Anglican
 * 
 * 2012
 * Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2013
 * St Chad's Cathedral, Birmingham
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2014
 * Westminster Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2015
 * Brentwood Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2016
 * Westminster Abbey
 * Anglican
 * 
 * 2017
 * Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2018
 * Leeds Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2019
 * St George's Cathedral, Southwark
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2020
 * Manchester Cathedral
 * Anglican
 * 
 * 2021
 * Salford Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2022
 * Leeds Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * }
 * Presumably, Catholic services were not held in Anglican churches (and vice versa). It does not seem obvious to me that the Church of England is the 'default' denomination of the BBC's Midnight Mass radio broadcasts. Shells-shells (talk) 00:17, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
 * 
 * 2019
 * St George's Cathedral, Southwark
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2020
 * Manchester Cathedral
 * Anglican
 * 
 * 2021
 * Salford Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * 2022
 * Leeds Cathedral
 * Catholic
 * 
 * }
 * Presumably, Catholic services were not held in Anglican churches (and vice versa). It does not seem obvious to me that the Church of England is the 'default' denomination of the BBC's Midnight Mass radio broadcasts. Shells-shells (talk) 00:17, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Catholic
 * 
 * }
 * Presumably, Catholic services were not held in Anglican churches (and vice versa). It does not seem obvious to me that the Church of England is the 'default' denomination of the BBC's Midnight Mass radio broadcasts. Shells-shells (talk) 00:17, 27 December 2022 (UTC)