Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2023 January 26

= January 26 =

(Don't Fear) The Reaper
The original is one of my favourite songs. One of the things I find so effective about it (apart from the cowbell, of course) is the way that the vocals kind of overlap each other. If you try singing along, you can't really do it properly because one phrase starts before the other one is finished. Lots of songs have choruses that overlap the lead a bit, but they tend to be pushed down in the mix so as not to interfere. In this song, the levels are about equal and sound very similar so they almost come out as stream of consciousness. My question is: is there a name for this effect? Matt Deres (talk) 17:07, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure there is a name for it; it is an effect created purely by audio editing; the lines are taken from different takes, and overlapped in a way that can't be recreated live by a single person (though two people could do it). In DFTR, I'm pretty sure Buck Dharma sings all of the lines in question, and they were overlaid using a technique like "mixing down", where the individual vocal tracks are combined into a single track.  Mixing down is a broader concept that isn't just used for vocals; it was a common technique in recording to tape, where there were a limited number of tracks; for example, if you had an 4 track recorder, you only have 4 different things you can put on the tape at once.  One thing you can do is record 4 different vocal tracks on one tape, and then "mix them down" to one track on the next tape, freeing up 3 tracks.  In the 1960s or earlier this was a purely technical necessity, but later artists (especially as led in the recording techniques of George Martin and his work with the Beatles) learned to use mixing down as an artistic technique to do all sorts of things that were impossible to do in a single take.  These general techniques are outlined in the wikipedia article Recording studio as an instrument.  My favorite use of the technique you note (which I admit, I don't think has a specific name other than "mixing down", which again, only applies to the more general concept) is in the Elvis Costello tune Watching the Detectives, Costello does an interesting compositional technique of essentially doubling the number of syllables per line in every verse, without changing the meter of the song; that creates this interesting effect of making each verse feel more and more rushed despite the song keeping a steady pace.  In the third verse, there's so many syllables to get out, if you listen closely, it's obvious each line is a separate take, that they then crammed together letting the words at the end of one line overlap with the start of the next.  "You think you're alone until you realize you're in it" and "Now baby's here to stay, love is here for a visit" overlap so that "it" is said at the same time as "now", for example.  It's a clearly artistic choice on the part of Costello to do it that way.  -- Jayron 32 17:21, 26 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Not bad, but it would have been better with more cowbell. --Lambiam 20:18, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I had never realised there was any cowbell in the song until I read the Wikipedia article about it, and I had never realised there was such a thing as "More Cowbell" untill I read that article. DuncanHill (talk) 23:23, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Cowbell is so ubiquitous in 70's rock songs that it almost blends into the background. It certainly is a distinctive sound once it is pointed out, but if you listen to a lot of music from the time period, it stops standing out.  But it was used everywhere.  That's part of what the SNL skit in question was lampooning.  -- Jayron 32 12:59, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Even the Beatles went through kind of a "cowbell phase". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:22, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I could be wrong, but I'm not sure that Ringo ever used a cowbell on his kit. I think he got bell sounds the traditional way, which is to play the ride cymbal on the "bell" portion, up near the center.  -- Jayron 32 19:14, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not very familiar with Elvis Costello's work, so I'll check that out because it's an interesting effect. It was pleasant to learn that it is the same voice and not just similarly sounding singers. I thought that was the case, but I'm utterly terrible at identifying stuff like that (and music stuff in general!) Forgive me, but the stuff about mixing down seems a bit beside the point, right? Like, the choice to squish the vocals onto a single track really doesn't have anything to do with the effect itself; they'd have done the same process for any number of reasons to stay within the technical limits of the era. Thinking about it more, the closest concept I could think of was round (music), but that's only similar in the sense that the vocals overlap; the effect itself is very different and it didn't seem like any of the concepts linked from "round" went anywhere close. Maybe there isn't a term for it. Matt Deres (talk) 16:27, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Re: Forgive me, but the stuff about mixing down seems a bit beside the point, right? Like, the choice to squish the vocals onto a single track really doesn't have anything to do with the effect itself But that's how you get Buck Dharma to sing over Buck Dharma. It has to be multiple takes mixed down to make his voice overlap with itself.  He can't physically sing two words at the same time.  -- Jayron 32 16:34, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Unless, are you just asking for the effect of having two voices sing two things at once? That's polyphony generally; in vocal music polyphony is often called descant where you have multiple voices singing different musical lines over each other.  -- Jayron 32 16:38, 27 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @ Jayron, yes, I'm just looking for the name of the effect. I was unfamiliar with polyphony and I agree that's the name of the general case (thank you!). I guess where I'm coming from is that the particular choice to arrange the leads/choruses like is done in DFTR (similar loudness, barely overlapping) creates a particular feeling. It insists in a particular way that probably feeds into the interpretation of the song being an exhortation to suicide: the words come at us without the usual breaks. If it wasn't a well-made song, it would be overwhelming and annoying.
 * The closest concept I can think of is an antonym: Caesura is a break used in poetry to divide a line that would otherwise be read continuously. The concept I'm looking for a name for is when the expected breaks (e.g. between verses or between lead and chorus) are purposefully removed. Sorry, I probably could have been clearer; I don't have a great musical vocabulary. Matt Deres (talk) 19:35, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 * No, it's fine. I wasn't really sure whether you were after a production technique, a songwriting technique, a term from music theory, etc.  I went with the production angle, which I think confused you.  I think what is going on here is basically two things.  We have a line where an unstressed syllable spills over the bar line into the next bar ... as in "Don't Fear The Reap|er" where the "er" comes on beat 1 of the next bar; it's basically like an inverted anacrusis, where instead of starting a beat early; the line runs a beat late.  Then we have the next line starting when it normally would, causing the "er" to be sung over the "Baby" which starts that line.  I'm not sure this has a musical term.  The interval between the "er" and the "ba" of baby is, to my ear, a minor third (A to C I believe, I think the song is in the key of A minor), which makes the harmony "pop" to my ear.  It's a cool effect.  I just don't know that it has a name.  -- Jayron 32 20:06, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * I was unfamiliar with anacrusis, but from the article, that seems exactly like what we're talking about - thank you! I'm not sure how I missed it, since it's the first "see also" from caesura. Oh well. Thank you again for the continued effort. I enjoy music, but because I'm tone deaf all the music classes I've ever taken have lead to zero understanding for me; framing it in poetry terms helped it get into my noggin. :-) Matt Deres (talk) 21:19, 31 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Or unless you're a member of David Hykes's Harmonic Choir, who specialise in Overtone singing. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  23:27, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Bonus Definition: That famous "la la la la la" bit was produced by non-lexical vocables in music. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:43, 28 January 2023 (UTC)