Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2006 August 27

Old euphemisms for semen or sperm
Wiktionary has an excellent list of slang terms for semen, but I'm looking for the terms that might have been used in 17th or 18th century Europe - especially euphemisms. Can anyone help?

Thanks Adambrowne666 04:44, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * "Seed" has been used since Biblical times. StuRat 05:38, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks - I should've mentioned I already have that one. Any others? Adambrowne666 05:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't know particularly, but I suggest you search the titles listed at thieves' cant. They lead to references for historical slang. Durova 06:26, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * "Spending his manly marrow in her arms", All’s Well that Ends Well, Act II. Scene III. --Lambiam Talk 07:04, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks all. Found a link to this great lexicon - http://www.fromoldbooks.org/NathanBailey-CantingDictionary/A/ - but I think we have a winnder with 'manly marrow' - superb, hilarious!


 * Gives a new meaning to "sucking the bones dry", doesn't it ? StuRat 09:46, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Jizz, and I believe 'jazz' is also derived from that, but especially the latter will probably not be that old. And while on the musical sex-euphemism theme, I believe both Rock & Roll and Boogie Woogie refer to sex. DirkvdM 07:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Minimal age to start a business in Australia
Could anyone tell me what is the minimal age to start a business in Australia. I'm 15 and wish to start a computer fixing business. I don't wona do anything against the law so will someone please help me! Thanks for any help given. jeremy
 * Part of doing business is that you enter into contracts with clients and possibly suppliers. This requires that you have the legal right to do so, which normally comes with the age of majority. In Australia that age is apparently 18. In some cases a minor may reach majority through an emancipation procedure. You'd have to ask a lawyer what the possibilities and requirements in Australia are. Alternatively, if your parents or legal guardians agree, or possibly some other adult, it could be one of them who formally enters into binding contracts, while you do the actual work. In that case, if something goes wrong, they will be held responsible and legally liable, not you. Again, you'd need a lawyer, and probably a tax consultant, to figure out what is sensible. --Lambiam Talk 10:49, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

You already asked this. Please don't double post. DirkvdM 07:53, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm sure you could start your computer-fixing business if you wanted to; it is doubtful you would be need to enter into any contracts. You will need an ABN, which you can apply for through the ATO (Tax Office) website. BenC7 08:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If a computer repair shop and a customer orally agree to fixing a computer for a certain monetary compensation, that agreement constitutes under most law systems, including common law, a contract. --Lambiam Talk 09:27, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Chuck Norris' Birth Name
Much thanks to those who helped, but I still do not have a conclusion to my question. Some contradictions in what was said especailly 'It seems like Norris' father changed his name to "Norris" before little Chuck was born. That would mean Chuck Norris was born as "Carlos Ray Draak".' I had found an email that I could possibly contact Mr. Norris with but seriously, what am I going to say? Flat out ask him? Not very polite. Thanks again!

Another question which seems harder to answer. On the page about Chuck Norris or Carlos Ray Norris it says "Norris was born to an alcoholic father, Ruud Draak, half Irish and half Cherokee, who later changed his name to Norris." Does this mean when he was born his father's name was Draak? And also does this mean he was born as Carlos Ray Draak? I have tried looking at several sites, even his official site, but failed to find if this was the answer. I suppose if you do not know then the only way to find out the answer is to contact Mr. Norris himself. As much a fan or him as I am I find that would be somewhat inappropriate. Thanks!

It seems like Norris' father changed his name to "Norris" before little Chuck was born. That would mean Chuck Norris was born as "Carlos Ray Draak". Also happened with Hitler. AdamBiswanger1 22:49, 18 August 2006 (UTC) Um, if his father changed his name before Chuck was born, then wouldn't Chuck have been born Norris? User:Zoe|(talk) 23:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC) Was Hitler also born as "Carlos Ray Draak"? That's amazing! --LambiamTalk 23:27, 18 August 2006 (UTC) Strange but true AdamBiswanger1 05:05, 20 August 2006 (UTC) I've come to the conclusion that this was a vandalous edit, as a search for "Chuck Norris" + "Ruud Draak" only comes up with Wikipedia stuff. Compare also this vandalous edit. --LambiamTalk 23:46, 18 August 2006 (UTC) That is amazing! --Proficient 03:43, 19 August 2006 (UTC) I think Lambiam just coined a new word - "vandalous". I like it - well done! --Bmk 04:03, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * What is the question? I thought the conclusion was that daddy Norris did not change his name. He was always called Norris – presumably because granddad was also called Norris. --Lambiam Talk 10:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * To sum up, "Ruud Draak" appears to be something a vandal added. Norris was never Draak. --Cam 15:58, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Alright. Thank you. That's the direction I knew it was heading but didn't know if we'd get there. Thanks again.

Instrumental dance music used in many BBC programmes
I would like to know the title and artist of a piece of instrumental dance (ambient?) music that is used in many many BBC programmes these days (Top Gear at least, but I think I hear it at least once a month). The only part I can describe has a strong beat and consists of the four notes D#, D, C#, C, each held for about four bars. The style is "ominous" and reminiscent of Push Upstairs by Underworld. Thank you.


 * If it's on Top Gear, the Final Gear Forums' "What's That Song?" section may well kinow what it is. --ByeByeBaby 18:50, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you knowe what instrument is playing the melody. Is it a guitar?--Light current 14:59, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Oldest Surviving Institutions / Establishments?
After reading about some of the ages of some of the oldest surviving Livery Companies and Universities, I became interested in what other institutions and establishments have lasted a very long time. However, I was unable to find such a collection after quite a bit of searching on wikipedia. 71.8.74.51 19:40, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Here's a list of oldest companies (including family businesses). --Cam 20:03, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * And here's a list of oldest universities in continuous operation. --Cam 20:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The Roman Catholic Church should probably be on that list. Depending on the definition of institution, other religions might qualify, too. If states are counted, China belongs there as the world's oldest country. Chl 22:40, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

musical string instruments
Please find the correct spelling for the one-stringed instrument called a bowdiddle (sp?). It is from Brazil and was found also in Mississippi, u.s.a. Such instruments were built and played by blacks in the South when other musical instruments were taken from them. I want to make my own. Any help would be really appreciated. Georgia


 * Probably there is no correct spelling as it is not the most formal instrument but it is under Diddley bow, also see http://www.wmich.edu/isrer/slavedetails/slides/Diddle%20Bow.html MeltBanana  20:28, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, there is a musician named Bo Diddley. ;) - Rainwarrior 00:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Seeking Historical Background of the "Request for Proposals" (RFP) Process
For an article in a professional journal, i'm looking for a history of the Request for Proposals process. The Wikipedia describes what an RFP is, but, as in other resources, gives no indication of where they came from.

It seems as though, rather suddenly, we are filling out (or attempting to fill out) very long, complex documents. How did this evolve from: a handshake between colleagues, to a simple submittal of qualifications, to a document asking for your qualifications with some idea of your approach, to these monsters? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.120.10.174 (talk • contribs) 20:52, August 27, 2006 (UTC).


 * Do you have some more context? For procurement by United States federal agencies the Request for Proposal documents need to reflect requirements put in by law; the agencies need to be sure that no human embryos were discriminated against in the process of making clocks or whatever they want to procure. Congressional staffers can prove their mettle by getting yet another requirement snuck into some otherwise totally unrelated law. And for commercial companies there are issues of due diligence; neglecting to obtain certain information may create liabilities. I suspect that it was a gradual process, but once things become complicated enough that you get lawyers to draw up the wording, the complexity mushrooms beyond what normal mortals can cope with, and the situation perpetuates itself. --Lambiam Talk 21:29, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * This is a sheerly off the cuff answer, but think about it this way. At least in the U.S., verbal agreements are legal contracts (at least, in theory). Fulfillment of verbal contract by a hiree obligates the purchaser to pay, and this is enforcable by law (again, in theory). The problem with this is obvious; with no written record, there is too much room for heresay with the delivered work/product.


 * For example, you say "I would love a blue sign with my name on it." I jump into Microsoft Word and create a 8.5"x11" page with your name written on it in blue, present it to you, and demand payment. "Wait," you say. "I was hoping for a 10'x20' wooden sign, painted blue, with my name in reverse text in white." I comply, and present both sign and bill. "Not yet," you quip. "I would like a darker blue, and my name to be written so it looks like a child wrote it." Third sign, and you seem to be happy, then the bill comes.


 * "Hold on," you say. "I only used the third sign, so I don't want to pay for all the work you did on two useless signs." I respond, "I have provided the work based on your specifications. You weren't exactly clear in your specifications, but you are obligated to pay for everything I have done. After all, I have incurred my expenses doing your job in good faith, and the law says that I am entitled to a fair compensation." Then we go to court. The purchaser (in theory) would be found liable for payment.


 * In the above, a well-made RFP would have made life simpler — the purchaser could be more precise in the request, the signmaker's response could clarify the purchaser's costs (hopefully including overages, revisions, etc.), and there would be a paper trail to fall back on if the situation deteriorates. As you can imagine, it only takes a couple such situations before businesses start making an RFP manditory before any work is started or completed. This is especially true when dealing with complex projects or whenever oversite is needed (think government). Jeremy RBC 14:33, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Copyright question
Does a company's copyright on a given product extend to pictures of that product, provided they weren't taken either to be used as promotional material or by anyone affiliated with the company? I've seen copyrights interpreted that way on a couple of occasions (not in a legal capacity) and am rather skeptical about it. CameoAppearance 22:38, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Copyright only applies to things that can be copied. Ohanian 03:24, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


 * So you mean that since a photograph is not a copy of the product itself, there is no copyright violation? But then what about the design? That is a visual aspect, so if the beauty of the photograph derives mainly from the (intended/designed) beauty of the object, then there might still be a copyright violation. What about art? Paintings are also pictures, so that comes very close. And three-dimensional art still has beauty as its main objective. But then what if the beuaty is not the purpose of the picture? Say if it is used on Wikipedia, puerely for educational purposes? This kind of stuff gives me headaches. DirkvdM 08:15, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


 * "Copyright only applies to things that can be copied" — that's not a useful way to think about copyright. Copyrights apply to creative or expressive works. --Fastfission 14:47, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The relevant copyright term you are looking for is derivative work. And even then, it depends on what the specific item is. If I recall, there are certain categories of things which cannot be copyrighted because they are considered "too basic" to be copyrighted (i.e. you cannot copyright a sock pattern, strangely enough, under US Copyright Law, because socks are "utilitarian items"). Assuming that the product does not fall into one of those categories, then you have what is basically a "tug of war" between the creativity of the photographer and the creativity of the product designer. If the product is very generic looking, and the photographer uses it creatively, then the photographer probably has the lion's share of the copyright claim. If the photo is generic and the product is creative (a straight-on photograph of a magazine, for example), then the manufacturer definitely gets the stronger copyright claim. That's my understanding of it, anyway. If the manufacturer's copyright claim is weak enough, and the photographer's claim strong enough, it would be easy to claim any inclusion of copyrighted material into the final photograph as trivial and within the boundaries of fair use. Of course, I am not a lawyer. --Fastfission 14:47, 28 August 2006 (UTC)