Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2006 December 15

= December 15 =

Pantheon
I need help to figure out the responsibilites of the Pantheon. By Pantheon I mean "a set of exaulted ones". I have done three days of research, and have found nothing as to the answer. I really need this question answered. If you can help, please do. I would be so grateful. If you cant, thats fine, thanks anyways. Please reply quickly though, if you can. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Axilala (talk • contribs) 01:22, 15 December 2006


 * Hello. I'm having a little bit of difficulty, I must confess, in understanding what it is that you are looking for.  I realise that you do not mean a building, like the Pantheon in Rome, but the word itself simply means 'the home of all the gods', or it is used to refer to the gods in any given mythology in collective terms.  Is there something more specific you have in mind?  Clio the Muse 01:31, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed, there seems to be a large hole in the question on the Pantheon. StuRat 02:50, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * "A set of exaulted ones" does not necessarily have any responsibilities whatsoever, but it very much depends which particular set of exaulted ones you have in mind.--Shantavira 09:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The Paris Pantheon? | A ndonic O Talk 10:25, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I think this is asking about Pantheon (gods). The way the question is related I have the feeling it may be related to Hinduism at which article you may find information on the duties or field of influence ("responsibilities") of the respective gods. "Exalted" in this context I take to mean "beings of raised or elevated spirit", as from Wikipedia Max Heindel (on Rosicrurian belief): "These great Adepts, belonging to human evolution but having already advanced far beyond the cycle of rebirth, are reported as being among those exalted Beings who guide mankind's evolution, the Compassionate Ones." On the other hand, the question may be about WoW3, where, as far as I know, the pantheon is a set of robots, and in which case I cannot contribute any knowledge. --Seejyb 14:29, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Pantheon building maintenance ?
The above question reminded me of something I've always wondered about, how a building with a large hole in the top can be practical. First, I'm assuming it's completely open to the outside air, although, with modern technology, it could be closed off with a window. There are several issues I would think having a large hole in the dome would cause, how are each of these addressed ?


 * Water damage from rain. StuRat 12:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Sun damage from UV light. StuRat 12:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Birds and flying insects living in the building. StuRat 12:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Temperature control. StuRat 12:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know, but just like you, I've always wanted to. | A ndonic O Talk 13:21, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

It occurs to me that the Humanities Desk isn't the right place for this question, so I've reposted to: Reference_desk/Science. StuRat 01:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

PS3 odds
How hard is it to get a PS3 for Christmas in North America if you don't already have one? I'm betting my friend that he won't get it, but I don't know too much about how many shipments retailers have received since the initial release. --The Dark Side 01:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Depends on where you live. I'd say it's nearly impossible in most places, because so little were shipped, and because of the demand. It'll be much harder to find than a Wii. --Wooty Woot? contribs 02:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Two PS3s were sitting around a town near here for at least a couple weeks directly after launch, possibly longer, but his is an exception rather than the rule. They're selling on eBay for a mildly more reasonable price (~$100-$200 above retail price). I've heard of people lining up (at least for Wiis) even a week ago, so keep in mind that others are competing to get these. There are some shipment trackers, though I have no idea of their reliability. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 03:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, they have some on Amazon for almost USD1000. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0009VXAM0/ref=amb_link_3794992_1/105-3016557-4332439 | A ndonic <b style="font-family:Papyrus; color:Black; font-size:small;">O</b> <i style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:Tan;">Talk</i> 10:28, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, if your friend is willing to camp in front of a store for more than 2 (6? 12?) hours then he will probably get it. But if he expects to just walks in and buy PS3 this year, then its highly unlikely he will get it. Shinhan 14:12, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * My dad bought one from pricegrabber.com for only 100 dollars above retail price. It was from a new vendor who was only wanting to increase his rating. Dad says he shipped it ten minutes after he placed the order. Look at that website for some help. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.114.249.248 (talk) 06:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

A society ruled by smart people?
I recall hearing about a government structure that is based on a group of intellects governing everything. I remember that it ended in -archy but that's about all I know. Thanks!


 * Not sure, it might have been a neologism. Philosopher king and Enlightened absolutism might prove useful, though. --Wo<b style="color:red;">o</b>ty Woot? contribs 02:13, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * You might try Meritocracy or, perhaps, Geniocracy. Clio the Muse 02:28, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Technocracy — rule by experts. --24.147.86.187 02:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, in the book Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley, they had tried such a society (on an island, I believe), it failed, then they resorted to using alcohol to lower the intelligence of most of the fetuses (fetal alcohol syndrome), in order to create a more "balanced" society. StuRat 02:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You're not thinking of the Illuminati? Cuz they really do rule the world. ;-) Anchoress 02:51, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * There's a delightful, and quite cynical, science-fiction story by C.M. Kornbluth entitled The Marching Morons, in which over the course of several centuries, humanity has split into two groups: a small elite of extremely intelligent people who manage an enormous mass of people with an average IQ of about 50.  (Over the course of the story, you realize the smart aren't quite as smart as they think they are.)  They've resurrected a 20th century real-estate swindler to help them out of their predicament, with interesting results.  Antandrus  (talk) 03:05, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the episode of The Simpsons called They_Saved_Lisa's_Brain. 192.168.1.1  7:06pm, 14 December 2006 (PST)


 * You've got to hand it to Steven Hawking for appearing in an animated TV show. The wheelchair with the punch-out button is classic. -- Mwalcoff 03:37, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * "You call this a utopia? More like a fruitopia." -- Vranak 03:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Stephen Hawking has appeared as himself in other animated cartoons: Futurama, where he along with Al Gore, Gary Gygax and Michelle Nichols polices violations of the space-time continuum, and Family Guy, in which he had a sex scene with his quadroplegic wife. He also appeared in another Simpsons episode, Don't Fear the Roofer. Cheese-eating Surrender Monkey 09:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That's Nichelle Nichols, Lieutenant Barclay. Anchoress 13:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Mhmm -- Hawking is also the only person to play themselves in an episode of Star Trek (The Next Generation). Vranak 15:59, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * So there is no difference between you and the simulation of yourself? --82.83.122.97 18:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

News montage
You know how ever year on December 31, for the last news program of the year, news programs will usually end with a sort montage of important events of the year, set to music (at least they do in Australia)? What's the proper name for those, and is there anywhere you can access them online? Battle Ape 04:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * "Review of the year" "year in review" something like that, this has links to videos for 2005. You may have to wait for january for 2006 to be online. meltBanana  16:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Cool, thanks. Battle Ape 03:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

First time I added content
This is the first time I added content to Wikipedia's list of American Illustrators. I added Fred Chance and Stuart Graves. Did I add their names correctly? Should I provide more information and perhaps visual images? Thank you, Brian Withers Brian Withers 05:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the contributions. I do have a number of pointers, though:


 * You shouldn't edit  directly, as that is an automatically generated index of American illustrators.  I've removed your edits there.


 * Instead, you needed to create small articles (called "stubs") on Fred Chance and Stuart Graves, then add the proper category flags to each to have them be picked up when the automatic index is generated. I started them both off for you and also started a stub on George Withers.


 * The material you supplied was quite minimal, but the greater issue is notability. If not enough people know about those three, the articles may be removed.  We'll have to wait a few days and see.  I'd add any more info you have on them, particularly info that makes them "notable".  Specifically, I'd add info on birth and death dates, year ranges worked for each publication, etc.  However, since adding pictures isn't all that easy (it requires an upload and worrying about the license), you might want to wait a bit and see if the articles are accepted, first, before taking on that effort.


 * Don't write from the "first person" in an article. For example, you said "He met my father...", instead say "He met fellow illustrator, George Withers...".


 * This isn't actually the proper place to ask about how to edit Wikipedia, you should go to the Help Desk for that (WP:HD). Although, if you actually had questions about Fred Chance and Stuart Graves, themselves, this would be the perfect place to pose such questions.


 * Question: You said: "Fred Chance was ... a good friend of George Withers, who also illustrated for the Saturday Evening Post, Colliers, Redbook, Blue Book, Good Housekeeping, the New York Times, etc." Does this mean that Fred Chance illustrated for those publications, as well as George Withers ?


 * StuRat 11:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Why does Vesper *** in Casino Royale the film?
I read the book and then saw the movie. I understand why Vesper kills herself in the book. But the movie changes the plot around and I don't understand why she willingly commits suicide at the point in the story that she does, given that Bond has dispatched the henchmen, at least temporarily.
 * Bond can't get the elevator cage open and she sees that he will die trying if she doesn't give up her own life. At least, that was my interpretation of the scene in the film.  Haven't read any of the books though.  <tt>Dismas</tt>|(talk) 13:22, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I thought it was a pretty weak point in the film. Recall that she locks the elevator door so that Bond can't get her out even before it goes into the water — I think it was meant an attempt at suicide from the beginning. In the film I assumed it was because she was supposed to feel bad for betraying Bond or something like that, which I found very implausible and overly melodramatic. --24.147.86.187 14:23, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * (In the book, Vesper Lynd is a double-agent actually working for SMERSH, but betrays them by falling in love with Bond. When she refuses to get Bond to talk after he is recovering from his torture, SMERSH give her a final warning to co-operate or get killed. She realises that there will be no escape other than telling Bond, but if she does that, it will be the end of their love. If she does not tell Bond, SMERSH may well kill them both. So she portrays her suicide as a rational act to save Bond) Sam Blacketer 23:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * She feels guilty, I think. The idea is that now that she knows he knows that she betrayed him and his country, she doesn't feel worthy to recieve his love and be save by him. Now that she's taken advantage of his devotion, she feels she has no right to demand it or allow him to give it again. Sashafklein 20:29, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Fines in Football
Maybe I'm just completely ignorant about things, but I don't get this. In a match between Feyenoord and the Blackburn Rovers a so-called Dutch 'supporter' threw beer at a British player. Even though Feyenoord did their best to track the supporter down (they succeeded), they were fined 12500 euros and the prosecutor still thinks this fine is too low. He's going to appeal. Why is the club being fined for the actions of a nutcase they can't possibly control? - 131.211.210.11 08:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Translation for Americans and Canadians: this question is about soccer, not American football. StuRat 11:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * As the articles about the mentioned teams will no doubt note. - Mgm|(talk) 12:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I have sort of assumed that the logic is: Fine the club --> Hurt / humiliate / anger the supporters --> then the supporters will be motivated to control the unrulies in their ranks. Analogous to the way some schools treat children, but morally I am not convinced... --Seejyb 14:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That logic sucks, it's more like: Fine the club --> Hurt / humiliate / anger the supporters --> have more unruly 'supporters' --> get fined again, again, again. - Mgm|(talk) 21:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * There's nothing unusual about the Fijenoord fine. UEFA and national federations fine clubs, managers, and players, just about every week. José Mourinho is a good example: he was fined GBP 200,000 (300,000 US dollars/Euros) on one occasion in 2005, reduced on appeal to a mere 75 thousand, and again (amount not stated) earlier in the year. There's nothing new or exciting in Fijenoord being fined for fan misbehaviour. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:29, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Expanding on my earlier comment, The presumption is that the club or federation sold the tickets, and took the money, so they are responsible for ensuring that no problems ensue. Examples off the BBC website of fines for fan misbehaviour include:
 * English Football Association fined by UEFA over fan violence
 * Chelsea fined by the English FA over pitch invasion
 * Spanish clubs fined for racist chanting
 * Nigeria and Egypt fined by the CAF over crowd trouble
 * Far harsher penalties have been imposed in some cases (see Heysel Stadium disaster). Although worth much less at the time, a similar five-year ban of all English clubs from European competition today would run to the equivalent of hundreds of millions of pounds in lost revenues.
 * The 12500 Euro fine is only a small part of the penalty UEFA imposed on Feyenoord this month. They were already fined 126000 Euro and given a suspended order for two games to be played behind closed doors. Calculating the cost of the closed door matches isn't simple, but the De Kuip stadium has a capacity of 52000, ticket prices aren't given by the club but 30 Euro apiece is a fair guess: 2 * 52000 * 30 = 3 million Euro and more in lost revenue. Even those penalties are insignificant compared to having points docked, or being banned from European competions, and those are the things which would anger fans. Fines are just part of running a football club. Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Blue things in Tangier
Okay, here's what might prove to be the weirdest question ever posed in this forum. I'm writing a story in which an urchin boy living the streets of Tangier becomes addicted to the colour blue. Is anyone here familiar enough with that city to give me a list of blue objects/buildings/places he might find to give him his high? Thanks Adambrowne666 09:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * More dirty brown, as I remember. If you are writing a story set in Tangier you simply must read through the work of Paul Bowles, full of atmosphere and local colour.  But I imagine you already have? Clio the Muse 09:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Is it still officially called Tangier in English? Google image Tangier and Google image Tanger. Can I ask why this particular city if you don't have the opportunity to visit it? Keria 11:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No chance the boy could spend a summer in Chefchaouen, near Tangier? The buildings there are full of blue as depicted on Hey jack Kerouac's photos page or here too. I suppose you could expect to find a lot of blue and white Fassi or bleu-de-Fez tilings and pottery in Tangers too, for instance in the Dar el Makhzen's Fez room. ---Sluzzelin 11:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * A specific vibration knocks my eye, and my eye is only able to tell - this is blue. O what a beautiful blue ! Azulejos, skies, cat's eyes ... -- DLL .. T 20:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * What wonderful answers -- thanks, all, so much - as to why I'm setting the story in Tanger when I've never been there, I can't give you a good answer except to say it started life as a riff on the Sailor sequence in Naked Lunch, and grew from there... Adambrowne666 22:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

British drama trivia
I'm hoping that someone can remind me of the name of this play, because I'm at a total loss, and the lack of an answer is eating away at my brain. I've searched high and low, but no luck. Anyway, it's about a guy who takes in a classless woman, teaches her to speak civilly, teaches her how to act appropriately, and then reintroduces her to society. I think he may even fall in love with her afterwards. Soo yeah, I can also remember a song that plays on the various pronunciations of some phrase they keep repeating. Any ideas?

Pygmalion? My Fair Lady? Educating Rita? ---Sluzzelin 12:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * All three are good examples, and I believe My Fair Lady is the one you're looking for specifically. Pretty Woman is another, more recent example, although it's set in the US.  StuRat 12:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

"My Fair Lady" would be it. Much thanks for the rapid response. I guess the whole "British drama" thing was throwing me off.


 * The song may be The rain in Spain: Higgins: Ay not I, O not Ow, Don't say "Rine," say "Rain"... Eliza: The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain! Henry: By George, she's got it! By George, she's got it! -- Seejyb 14:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The play is Pygmalion by George Bernard Shaw, on which the musical My Fair Lady was based. Shaw's play, in turn, is based on on the ancient Greek myth of Galatea, retold by the Roman poet Ovid in Metamorphoses.  Pygmalion, a sculptor, carves a statue out of ivory.  It is so beautiful that he falls in love with his creation.  The godess Venus takes pity on him and brings the statue to life.  Clio the Muse 19:22, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

What was the name of General Charles Gordon's batman at Khartoum?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.239.144 (talk • contribs)

Have you checked Charles George Gordon?martianlostinspace 14:59, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to be there... you might want to check print references, specifically the journals kept by Gordon:
 * The Journals of Major-Gen. C.G.Gordon, C.B. at Khartoum introduced by A.Egmont Hake. London, Kegan Paul, Trench, 1885; reprinted, New York, 1969.
 * Khartoum Journal edited by Lord Elton. London, Kimber, 1961.

- Eron Talk 15:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Real-life consequences of new Quebec status
Hello,

Quebec has become a nation within Canada. Everyone made a lot of fuss about this, but what does it really mean? I would like to know through a few very real-life related questions :

- Do Identity Cards show whether or not a person from Canada is from Quebec or not?

- When a person immigrates (from outside Canada) to Quebec, does he have to prove he can speak French or learn it? What if he wants to stay in Quebec and become a Canadian?

- When a person from Ontario for instance, moves to Quebec, can he vote for the National Assembly of Quebec?

Thank you very much, Evilbu 19:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * What does it mean? That would depend on who you ask... a member of the Federal government, a member of the Quebec National Assembly, a member of the Parti Quebecois, etc. Regarding your questions,
 * ID Cards? We don't have national ID cards, but anything with an address on it would show the province, drivers licences are provincially issued, etc., so yes, but that has always been the case.
 * As far as I know, there is no specific requirement to know French to move to Quebec, from anywhere. People who want to emigrate to Canada permanently usually need to be competent in one of the two official languages, but that is all.
 * Any resident of a province is permitted to vote in that province's elections.
 * Hope this helps. - Eron Talk 20:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I think that the effects are psychological only. But, such effects are vital precursors to more tangible improvements in Quebec-and-the-rest-of-Canada relationships.

Canada is, for better or for worse, dominated by Scottish and British descendants. In my perception, this English-speaking faction has always held animosity toward the French portion of Canada, Quebec. It as though, at the bottom of their hearts, they wish England had been able to eradicate the French settlers from Canada in the 17th century, back when such things were deemed acceptable. Personally though, I think all such shows of animosity are faceitious. Canadians are Canadians; they don't hate each other nearly as much as they may pretend to.

However, with the recent concession by the Anglo-Conservative government, which has given new credence to Quebec's authority, this attitude seems to be improving. Perhaps, given a few more years, animosity between Anglo-Canadians and Quebecois will be virtually forgotten. Vranak
 * Thanks! So I guess none of the things I brought up are changed by this new status! Another question while we're at it, if I may : do the Québécois speak English? I know the definition of "knowing a language" is extremely controversial, so again I will ask concrete questions :


 * - a random doctor, policeman,... do they know enough English to deal with people who don't speak French?


 * - do they watch English programs with subtitles or dubbed?


 * - last but not least : how crucial would it be for an Englishspeaking Canadian settling in Quebec, to learn French?

Evilbu 20:35, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It is very similar to North-west Europe: nearly everybody under 40 will speak, read, and understand English quite well. Vranak 20:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay thanks again! And now the same question... how about the knowledge of the French language among the rest of the Canadians? Is it possible that they are even more likely to learn a third language than French? (And by the way, what is your definition of north-west Europe, does it contain Germany, France and Wallonia?)Evilbu 21:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe North-West Europe does include Germany, possibly France also. I don't think this is a widly-established term though. | <b style="font-family:Papyrus; color:black;">A</b> ndonic <b style="font-family:Papyrus; color:Black; font-size:small;">O</b> <i style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:Tan;">Talk</i> 21:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You can also include countries like Denmark, Belguim, Switzerland, northern Italy, Iceland, and Sweden. Not sure about Greece, Finland, Romania, Czech Republic, and Norway -- but I would expect there to a fair knowledge of English in those countries too. Vranak
 * Regarding knowledge of French outside Quebec, Languages of Canada and Bilingualism in Canada should help you out there. In brief, "about 41% of Quebec residents and about 10% of the population residing outside Quebec claim to be bilingual (2001 Census). All together, 18% of Canadian residents speak both English and French." I believe the numbers for bilingual people outside Quebec are steadily rising; French immersion schooling is quite common in several parts of English Canada.


 * On another note, I'm not sure it's entirely fair to say that the "English-speaking faction has always held animosity toward the French portion... it as though, at the bottom of their hearts, they wish England had been able to eradicate the French settlers from Canada." That is perhaps a view of some English Canadians, but it hasn't been a majority view for decades. And, it would be just as true to say that a portion of French Canadians have always resented English Canada, for in the bottom of their hearts they wish the Conquest had never happened. - Eron Talk 22:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I have a unique perspective as an Anglophone from the United States who has visited the province of Quebec several times and who filed an application for permanent residence in Canada (before Quebec was officially declared a nation). First of all, I must disagree with Vranak's statement that nearly every Francophone in Quebec under 40 speaks, reads, and understands English quite well.  This might be true in Montreal, but even there I am doubtful about people with working-class jobs who have not attended university.  When I have traveled outside of Montreal, I have found that nearly everyone under 40 can speak a few words of English, but I have sometimes had to fall back on my own rather rudimentary French, even with younger people, because their English is inadequate.  I would guess that, outside of Montreal, no more than half of the adult Quebecois (of all classes) can communicate proficiently in English.


 * As for applying to immigrate, there are indeed special French-language requirements for immigrants intending to reside in Quebec. There is a special application and a special set of rules for immigrants to Quebec.  Now, there may be nothing to stop a landed immigrant from moving to Quebec from another province once he or she has been admitted to Canada.  But there is a separate process for immigrants intending to move to Quebec from the outset. This was true before the nation declaration and probably did not change after it.


 * Marco polo 02:51, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * A quick remark concerning Vranak comments. Danes, Finns, Norwegians, Icelandic people... are all quite fluent in English.(I know Flemish students who worked as interns in Norway and they could teach the kids-in elementary school-in English.) About Belgium, I don't mean to offend anyone, but that's mostly the Flemings, it's getting better now but lots of francophones are practically monolingual, hence creating all sorts of tensions on a daily basis....Evilbu 19:39, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Justice system of gold rush mining towns.
Does anyone have information on this? No article. DebateKid 19:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

This website has some information:.It's about the justice system in the mining town of Cariboo,but I'm sure many of the steps taken to enforce the law there would have been taken in other mining towns as well.Apparently James Douglas (Governor) initiated a mining licence system.He then hired policemen.There were also several courts established:the Gold Commissioner's Court,who ruled in cases regarding the gold mines;the civil court,who ruled in cases regarding disputes not connected with the gold mines;the bankruptcy court,for businesses who had to close because they weren't making enough money to stay open;and the police court,which ruled in more serious matters such as murder.Serenaacw 22:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In the US, early mines were often small-scale impromptu constructions built by a few miners, and the law, if any, was likely to have been provided by vigilantes or Federal marshalls. Later on, mines were controlled by large companies, which effectively controlled the law in the area and hired local "detectives", such as Pinkerton, to enforce this control. StuRat 07:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Race car accident where the driver's brother was killed by a racetrack ambulance?
I'm trying to find out which race this happened in. The driver's brother ran across the track to help but was killed by a speeding ambulance. I think it was a US race, and definitely before 1981. Thanks 172.200.50.17 20:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Euripides
'Citation needed', I can supply that, namely Aristotle, /de Arte Poetica/ 1460b33-34. I've tried several times to fix this on the Wikipedia site, but 'tis not as user-friendly as it should be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lindsay Hall (talk • contribs)


 * I think you probably need to post the above to Talk:Euripides, not here. --24.147.86.187 00:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you, I have added the citation to the article. --Seejyb 23:58, 16 December 2006 (UTC)