Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2006 December 19

= December 19 =

Correct use of the term "Band" (as in Rock Band) and minimum number of members?
On the article for Virtual band it states that virtual band refers to "any group whose members are not flesh-and-blood musicians, but animated characters." The article also mentions Crazy Frog (the CGI character) several times as an example and includes an image of him.

I added a comment to the talk page suggesting that Crazy Frog shouldn't be included in the article because he's not a "virtual group", but a "virtual soloist", because unlike a band or group Crazy Frog only consists of himself (sorry if this is sounding silly). An editor replied and from what I can gather the reason for the Frog being called a band is because there's another CGI character in the backround of the promo videos (although it's Frog who is "singing"), and also because sometimes a DJ might be referred to as a band (although in my experience that's usually done in error due to many DJs being fairly anonymous).

Anyway, I'd like to know, am I so out of touch with youth culture that music terminology has changed without me knowing it? Or is this a cultural thing? I'm in the UK and we definitely don't refer to Crazy Frog as a band or a grop here. When I added the comment to the talk page I just assumed I was stating a plain fact, but now I'm wondering. 172.188.153.235 03:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think most people would agree that a "band", whether real or virtual, consists of more than one person (with the exception of a one-man band of course :) ! ) The more inclusive words "artist" and "act" are commonly used in the music business to refer to solo performers, DJs, and bands (regardless of whether they could be considered "artistic" or not).  I think Crazy Frog is in the virtual band article mainly because there is currently no virtual artist, virtual act, virtual soloist, or virtual entertainer article. --Lph 13:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I consider band to have at least four (4) members. My reasoning: Keane has three members, I don't consider them a band. I don't know why -- I just don't. Travis and Coldplay have four members, I do consider them to be bands.

Also, you get a group like Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. The core of the group is really just Tom Petty and Mike Campbell -- so I don't consider them to be a band either. Vranak 16:46, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That's a weird rule. So The White Stripes aren't a band? zafiroblue05 | Talk 19:12, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't think it is so much a rule as one person's preference. Band (music) just says "a company of musicians, or musical ensemble," and musical ensemble refers to "two or more" musicians. So They Might Be Giants? Still a band. (See also WP:HORSE.) - Eron Talk 01:00, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Song Lyrics... "Booty booty"
I went to a Christmas party the other night and heard lots of interesting music. One of the songs -- that my friends are all calling "the booty song" I've not been able to find. The song is very rhythmic with lines like: Big booty Little booty .. .. Booty booty booty booty booty...
 * something* booty
 * smoething* booty

I've Googled this and still can find anything. Any clues as to the artist of the name of the song? Any help would be appreciated! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.145.200.110 (talk) 04:19, 19 December 2006 (UTC).


 * Maybe by Kendall or L-Macc, but probably by Bubba Sparxxx called 'Ms. New Booty'. Wolfgangus 05:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, at least as concerns Bubba Sparxxx. The lyrics were basically, "Booty booty, big booty, little booty, something booty," over and over again.. There weren't many words other than "booty" preceded by some other descriptive word. The singer had a rough, gravelly voice, I think. --70.145.200.110 07:02, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Alexander's quip?
Alexander the Great is credited with saying "Ου κλεπτω την νικην" &mdash; so what the heck does that mean? Big Blue Marble 06:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Should ask on Language Reference Desk. The most basic literal translation is "I don't steal the victory".  Not sure about any double meanings... AnonMoos 07:15, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It isn't a quip, merely a remark easily interpreted as youthful arrogance but understood by Arrian as displaying maturity and intelligence. Search for steal on these pages, . meltBanana

Books of condolence
These days, whenever someone in the public eye passes away, one of the first responses is to open a book of condolence (the article is just a stub). My impression is that this phenomenon was pretty rare before the death of Princess Diana. Am I right? --Richardrj talkemail 06:22, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure these have always been present at every funeral I've been to. It's sort of like a guest book.  --Nelson Ricardo 07:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The practice of placing a Book of Condolence at a foreign embassy or office is pretty old. The idea is that those, in far flung places, who are unable to attend and offer their respects in person can sign the book. The book is then transported to the family, or in some cases, an archive run by the state (or organization).
 * Another thing that's becoming popular is the minute's silence (in the UK at least). It's all part of the grief culture. --Auximines 09:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * All of my experiences in relation to books of condolence and minutes of silence have been from the UK - which seems to do these things more often as we head onwards into the future. The first one I remember ever signing was for the 9/11 attacks, the town hall had a book people could sign. Now I was in the US in the years previous, and this was never usual at any funeral I had ever attended nor was it in relation to any event except for gradutaing school (both grade and high school) where in addition to ceremonies we had books for our friends to sign - but we each had our own book, which we were to keep as a momento and rememberance of childhood friends. Robovski 05:29, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure there was a book of condolence at my father's funeral, which was in the U.S. in 1999 (post-Diana but pre-9/11). —Angr 21:49, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * My grandmother's guestbook, commenced in 1917, was signed by every vistor at her funeral in 1964; the names just filled up the last page. --Wetman 04:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Fleetwod Mac - Information on the album " Tusk"
Hi,

When the album 'Tusk' was initially released in 1979 it was a two record set; on obtaining the 2CD set of this album recently, it had what I believe to be all the original songs on one disc and on the second disc, a collection of demos, roughs and outtakes ( I can thoroughly recommend this set )

I Googled 'Fleetwood Mac', visited the official web site and asked this same questions, unfortunately this site was unable to provide an answer to said questions which are as follows - Are all the original songs from the double album of 1979 on this CD - List all the titles of the songs as released on this album in order / per side - eg. Side One -  Track One Track Two Track Three

Side Two - Track One  etc.

If this question can not be answered by your organisation, could you advise me as to whom one should contact in order to do so;  it's my opinion that an avid collector of Fleetwood Mac would have this information especially if said collection has original vinyl recordings but I do not have the knowledge of how to contact such a collector.

Thanking you for all of your assistance in this matter.

Seasons Greetings

Regards, Paul —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.226.217.13 (talk) 06:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC).


 * According to this Google search, the track listing for the double vinyl LP is as follows:

Side 1: 1. Over And Over 2. Ledge 3. Think About Me 4. Save Me A Place 5. Sara Side 2: 1. What Makes You Think You're The One 2. Storms 3. That's All For Everyone 4. Not That Funny 5. Sisters Of The Moon Side 3: 1. Angel 2. That's Enough For Me 3. Brown Eyes 4. Never Make Me Cry 5. I Know I'm Not Wrong Side 4: 1. Honey Hi 2. Beautiful Child 3. Walk A Thin Line 4. Tusk 5. Never Forget


 * --Lph 13:40, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Happy memorial services
Another trend in marking people's passing is the happy memorial service. We often hear that memorial services are intended as a "celebration of X's life", rather than an occasion to mourn their death. Again, this seems to me to be a recent trend. Any views? --Richardrj talkemail 06:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe these usually occur at the request of the deceased, rather than being something the next-of-kin come up with. --Nelson Ricardo 06:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * An Irish wake seems to me to be as much of a celebration as a mourning. StuRat 14:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * For another tradition, see the page on the New Orleans jazz funeral. -- Deborahjay 20:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

It's been common for many decades, and probably longer, for dead emininent Britons to have a funeral, and some weeks later later a memorial service in which their life is celebrated. Maybe the two events have been combined these days for less eminent persons. JackofOz 00:58, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Financial Models
What are Financial Models? How do Financial Models work? --Foundby 06:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * See Model (economics) Dave6 10:19, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance (movie) symbolism
9 =

Correct use of the term "Band" (as in Rock Band) and minimum number of members?
On the article for Virtual band it states that virtual band refers to "any group whose members are not flesh-and-blood musicians, but animated characters." The article also mentions Crazy Frog (the CGI character) several times as an example and includes an image of him.

I added a comment to the talk page suggesting that Crazy Frog shouldn't be included in the article because he's not a "virtual group", but a "virtual soloist", because unlike a band or group Crazy Frog only consists of himself (sorry if this is sounding silly). An editor replied and from what I can gather the reason for the Frog being called a band is because there's another CGI character in the backround of the promo videos (although it's Frog who is "singing"), and also because sometimes a DJ might be referred to as a band (although in my experience that's usually done in error due to many DJs being fairly anonymous).

Anyway, I'd like to know, am I so out of touch with youth culture that music terminology has changed without me knowing it? Or is this a cultural thing? I'm in the UK and we definitely don't refer to Crazy Frog as a band or a grop here. When I added the comment to the talk page I just assumed I was stating a plain fact, but now I'm wondering. 172.188.153.235 03:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think most people would agree that a "band", whether real or virtual, consists of more than one person (with the exception of a one-man band of course :) ! ) The more inclusive words "artist" and "act" are commonly used in the music business to refer to solo performers, DJs, and bands (regardless of whether they could be considered "artistic" or not).  I think Crazy Frog is in the virtual band article mainly because there is currently no virtual artist, virtual act, virtual soloist, or virtual entertainer article. --Lph 13:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I consider band to have at least four (4) members. My reasoning: Keane has three members, I don't consider them a band. I don't know why -- I just don't. Travis and Coldplay have four members, I do consider them to be bands.

Also, you get a group like Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. The core of the group is really just Tom Petty and Mike Campbell -- so I don't consider them to be a band either. Vranak 16:46, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That's a weird rule. So The White Stripes aren't a band? zafiroblue05 | Talk 19:12, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't think it is so much a rule as one person's preference. Band (music) just says "a company of musicians, or musical ensemble," and musical ensemble refers to "two or more" musicians. So They Might Be Giants? Still a band. (See also WP:HORSE.) - Eron Talk 01:00, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Song Lyrics... "Booty booty"
I went to a Christmas party the other night and heard lots of interesting music. One of the songs -- that my friends are all calling "the booty song" I've not been able to find. The song is very rhythmic with lines like: Big booty Little booty .. .. Booty booty booty booty booty...
 * something* booty
 * smoething* booty

I've Googled this and still can find anything. Any clues as to the artist of the name of the song? Any help would be appreciated! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.145.200.110 (talk) 04:19, 19 December 2006 (UTC).


 * Maybe by Kendall or L-Macc, but probably by Bubba Sparxxx called 'Ms. New Booty'. Wolfgangus 05:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, at least as concerns Bubba Sparxxx. The lyrics were basically, "Booty booty, big booty, little booty, something booty," over and over again.. There weren't many words other than "booty" preceded by some other descriptive word. The singer had a rough, gravelly voice, I think. --70.145.200.110 07:02, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Alexander's quip?
Alexander the Great is credited with saying "Ου κλεπτω την νικην" &mdash; so what the heck does that mean? Big Blue Marble 06:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Should ask on Language Reference Desk. The most basic literal translation is "I don't steal the victory".  Not sure about any double meanings... AnonMoos 07:15, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It isn't a quip, merely a remark easily interpreted as youthful arrogance but understood by Arrian as displaying maturity and intelligence. Search for steal on these pages, . meltBanana

Books of condolence
These days, whenever someone in the public eye passes away, one of the first responses is to open a book of condolence (the article is just a stub). My impression is that this phenomenon was pretty rare before the death of Princess Diana. Am I right? --Richardrj talkemail 06:22, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure these have always been present at every funeral I've been to. It's sort of like a guest book.  --Nelson Ricardo 07:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The practice of placing a Book of Condolence at a foreign embassy or office is pretty old. The idea is that those, in far flung places, who are unable to attend and offer their respects in person can sign the book. The book is then transported to the family, or in some cases, an archive run by the state (or organization).
 * Another thing that's becoming popular is the minute's silence (in the UK at least). It's all part of the grief culture. --Auximines 09:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * All of my experiences in relation to books of condolence and minutes of silence have been from the UK - which seems to do these things more often as we head onwards into the future. The first one I remember ever signing was for the 9/11 attacks, the town hall had a book people could sign. Now I was in the US in the years previous, and this was never usual at any funeral I had ever attended nor was it in relation to any event except for gradutaing school (both grade and high school) where in addition to ceremonies we had books for our friends to sign - but we each had our own book, which we were to keep as a momento and rememberance of childhood friends. Robovski 05:29, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure there was a book of condolence at my father's funeral, which was in the U.S. in 1999 (post-Diana but pre-9/11). —Angr 21:49, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * My grandmother's guestbook, commenced in 1917, was signed by every vistor at her funeral in 1964; the names just filled up the last page. --Wetman 04:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Fleetwod Mac - Information on the album " Tusk"
Hi,

When the album 'Tusk' was initially released in 1979 it was a two record set; on obtaining the 2CD set of this album recently, it had what I believe to be all the original songs on one disc and on the second disc, a collection of demos, roughs and outtakes ( I can thoroughly recommend this set )

I Googled 'Fleetwood Mac', visited the official web site and asked this same questions, unfortunately this site was unable to provide an answer to said questions which are as follows - Are all the original songs from the double album of 1979 on this CD - List all the titles of the songs as released on this album in order / per side - eg. Side One -  Track One Track Two Track Three

Side Two - Track One  etc.

If this question can not be answered by your organisation, could you advise me as to whom one should contact in order to do so;  it's my opinion that an avid collector of Fleetwood Mac would have this information especially if said collection has original vinyl recordings but I do not have the knowledge of how to contact such a collector.

Thanking you for all of your assistance in this matter.

Seasons Greetings

Regards, Paul —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.226.217.13 (talk) 06:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC).


 * According to this Google search, the track listing for the double vinyl LP is as follows:

Side 1: 1. Over And Over 2. Ledge 3. Think About Me 4. Save Me A Place 5. Sara Side 2: 1. What Makes You Think You're The One 2. Storms 3. That's All For Everyone 4. Not That Funny 5. Sisters Of The Moon Side 3: 1. Angel 2. That's Enough For Me 3. Brown Eyes 4. Never Make Me Cry 5. I Know I'm Not Wrong Side 4: 1. Honey Hi 2. Beautiful Child 3. Walk A Thin Line 4. Tusk 5. Never Forget


 * --Lph 13:40, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Happy memorial services
Another trend in marking people's passing is the happy memorial service. We often hear that memorial services are intended as a "celebration of X's life", rather than an occasion to mourn their death. Again, this seems to me to be a recent trend. Any views? --Richardrj talkemail 06:27, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe these usually occur at the request of the deceased, rather than being something the next-of-kin come up with. --Nelson Ricardo 06:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * An Irish wake seems to me to be as much of a celebration as a mourning. StuRat 14:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * For another tradition, see the page on the New Orleans jazz funeral. -- Deborahjay 20:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

It's been common for many decades, and probably longer, for dead emininent Britons to have a funeral, and some weeks later later a memorial service in which their life is celebrated. Maybe the two events have been combined these days for less eminent persons. JackofOz 00:58, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Financial Models
What are Financial Models? How do Financial Models work? --Foundby 06:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * See Model (economics) Dave6 10:19, 19 December 2006 (UTC)