Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2006 November 30

= November 30 =

"black" Countries
Which Spanish-speaking countries that has the population of Black people?


 * There are Black people throughout the Spanish-speaking world, though more in the Americas than Spain, and more in Cuba than, say, Argentina. You'll find some detailed figures in Afro-Latin American  Clio the Muse 00:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * How do you define 'black' ?--Light current 00:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Equatorial Guinea? --Cody.Pope 01:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, thank you for that. I forgot about Spanish Africa.  Clio the Muse 01:37, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe you forgot a word and meant 'largest population'? Indeed, this depends on your definition of 'black'. Blacks in America and outside Africa in general are usually mixed with whites. And where does one draw the line then? It's a sliding scale. So if you mean pure blacks then you'd have to look in Africa. Assuming you mean percentage. If you're after absolute numbers, then the biggest American countries might have more than Equatorial Guinea because that country has only half a million people. DirkvdM 08:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I looked through the CIA World Factbook and found the following figures for "black" people in Spanish-speaking countries:


 * Cuba - 1.24m
 * Dominican Rep. - 1.01m
 * Nicaragua - 0.5m
 * Ecuador - 0.41m
 * Puerto Rico - 0.31m
 * Honduras - 0.15m
 * Costa Rica - 0.12m


 * Spanish is an official language of Equatorial Guinea, but a study cited on Ethnologue says only 11,500 people in the country actually speak the language. -- Mwalcoff 00:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Creek Indians
Creek Indians migrated to Florida after they were defeated by: A) the English B) the French C) the Spanish

We have looked for this answer everywhere and cannot find anything on it. Thanks for your help.


 * Judging by the Creek people article, I'd say it's not any of them. I think the Americans would be the best choice.  bibliomaniac 1  5  02:33, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer. It was very helpful.
 * For your exam? ;-) | A ndonic O Talk 11:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Taliban Reaction to 9/11
Shortly after 9/11/01, I remember seeing the reactions of various world leaders to the attacks. There was even a statement from the Taliban (I assume it was Mullah Omar) expressing regret for the loss of life, albeit with some caveats. I've tried searching for this statement, but to no avail. If anyone can provide a video or transcript of this, it would be much appreciated. Thanks. GreatManTheory 03:22, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I checked the New York Times and other publications and could not find any expression of sorrow by Mullah Omar for the U.S. losses of 9/11. Almost every other country expressed sorrow and solidarity with the U.S., including Iran. Edison 04:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * This makes no sense. Can anyone imagine an attack on the twin towers that would not have resulted in huge loss of life?  That was the whole object.  Clio the Muse 06:56, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It says regret for the loss of life. DirkvdM 09:02, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Remember that the Taliban was briefly trying to "sit on the fence", so they would not be attacked. But, when forced to choose sides by the US, they choose to side with Al Queda, and were thus attacked.  Also, it might have been a specific apology for killing Pakistanis and other Muslims, even though they were proud to murder "infidel" civilians.  StuRat 07:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * You make that sound as if they did it. DirkvdM 09:18, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * What happened was that the US demanded that the Taleban hand over Bin Laden and they asked for evidence that he was behind 9/11. Then they were attacked. Skarioffszky 09:56, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The Taliban knew full well that Al Queda was behind 9-11, they were just stalling for time with their "demand for evidence". I certainly think that Bush is an idiot, but he got one thing right: those who fund, host, and support terrorists should be treated as terrorists.  StuRat 10:55, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Soneone else's eye for an eye. I wonder how blood feuds start. DirkvdM 07:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you Dirk for reminding us that every bit of evil in the world, even when directed against Americans, is of course the fault of the US. alteripse 04:15, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It was StuRat who said that. DirkvdM 08:27, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * No, I didn't. Incidentally, alteripse was being sarcastic, in case that didn't translate. StuRat 08:43, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Stu. The US had every moral right to dismantle a government that shielded those murderers, no matter what "regrets" the Taliban expressed. Remember 9/11 was neither the first nor last of their mass murder attacks on civilians. Excising the Taliban was so absolutely right that it unfortunately garnered support for the stupidest and most destructive US policy decision in 40 years: to invade Iraq. alteripse 11:36, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to provoke a war of words about the merits of U.S. foreign policy. Yes, I believe the Taliban deserved every bit of what they got, but I'm quite certain that some form of regret was issued nonetheless. Was this "regret" just a way for the Taliban to "sit on the fence" as StuRat said? Of course. Still, I think it would be interesting to see exactly what was said, if possible. Thanks. GreatManTheory 12:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, I seem to remember this being on video, but I might be wrong about that. Thanks. GreatManTheory 13:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I also believe the Palestinian Authority issued an official "statement of regret", even though Palestinians were filmed dancing in the streets and shooting guns in the air in celebration. The Palestinian Authority tried very hard to suppress this footage, knowing it wouldn't help their cause.  This was before the PA was taken over by Hamas, so I don't know how they would react now.  The typical  PA reaction to the murder of Israeli citizens seems to be along the lines of "Yes, it's regrettable, but they can expect more of the same until we get what we want", so perhaps the Hamas-led PA would react the same way to 9-11, if they were in power at the time. StuRat 13:33, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * In almost any country, you'll find examples of individuals holding diametrically opposed views to those of their government. Palestinians dancing and shooting in the streets was much more newsworthy to the western media than Palestinians going about their business quietly and peacefully.  Do the loud minority represent the silent majority?  Hardly ever.  JackofOz 01:42, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't recall any Canadians or Australians doing that, however, showing that a larger percentage of Palestinians support murdering Americans. This is the type of thing that needs to be considered when the US decides if it will financially support the PA.  StuRat 02:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * C'mon Jack...I'm sure the scene in Melbourne was no different than in Montreal. Utter shock and disgust. Even if there was some minority who felt it, not a soul dared show the slightest bit of satisfaction. We were all, each and every one, overcome with the incomprehesible inhumanity of it. Unfortunately, even before the smoke cleared at ground zero, the first sign of tastelessness and disrespect came in the form of some spam email containing a senseless and tactless diatribe penned by non other than Michael Moore: "Now Bush the moronic oil-hungry cowboy has decided to scapegoat some Arab dude living in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan...what an idiot!" I kid you not, though those weren't the exact words he used, that's what he said. Loomis 19:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In Amsterdam there was a demonstration on the Dam that didn't really know what it was about. Speakers had to express their condolances and such, but at the same time sought different ways of saying that finally the US got a taste of what it had been doing to others for so long. And that was certainly a strong attitude in the crowd that had gathered. When we had a street party the next day, someone passing by asked if we were celebrating the attacks on the US. DirkvdM 07:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I take it those with the "US got what it deserved" attitude were Muslims ? Or were you leading the crowd ? StuRat 07:54, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I wasn't there and it you can't see if someone is muslim, so the other question is impossible to answer, but they were mostly whites without headscarfs, if that's what you mean. DirkvdM 08:27, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I have not been able to find vid but here are some responses. http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/worldtrade.crash/ http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/usa/Taliban_opinion.htm and here is some details about the taliban handing over bin Laden http://www.j-n-v.org/AW_briefings/ARROW_briefing002.htm I agree the taliban were probably stalling and being duplicitous (they were politicians after all) but too much politiking and not answering the question is going on here. meltBanana  23:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC) Here http://www.blackelectorate.com/articles.asp?ID=430 are a few more condemners.  meltBanana  23:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Where can I get Too $hort's Blow the Whistle (instrumental version)?
I don't want a link to a sight that can remove lyrics. I just need something that I can download the instrumental version or atleast play the track on the internet. Bryan the Magnificent 05:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Parsees and the Indian caste system
According to our article on the Indian caste system, non-Hindus such as Muslims and Christians have traditionally participated in the system. But the article doesn't mention Parsees. Where would they fit in? Presumably, since they're endogamous, they would form their own little self-contained caste. But what is their standing? Thanks! Bhumiya (said/done) 06:08, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * That article is poorly worded. By definition, non-Hindus are outside the caste system, so they don't have a place in it except as out-castes. I assume what the writer means is that Christians and Muslims (and Parsees) went along with the caste system in the sense that (unlike Buddhists) they tolerated the system and its customs.--Shantavira 08:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I had suspected as much, but I wasn't sure. Am I wrong in thinking that quite a few non-Hindu out-caste groups enjoy a status above many low-ranking Hindu castes? For example, Parsees seem historically to have held much greater esteem than Dalits. Does anyone know where Parsees would "rank", so to speak? A friend of mine, a Hindu from Mumbai, tells me that the position of Parsees in India is somewhat analogous to that of Jews in the United States. I guess he meant that while they are subject to exclusion and prejudice, they are generally prosperous and respectable. I've never met a Parsee myself. Is the comparison valid? Bhumiya (said/done) 20:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

"Wake me up" song
I'm looking for a certain song that has the lyrics "Wake me up" in it. And no I'm not talking about Wake Me Up. I've seen the video of this song but somehow missed the artist/title. The video consists of a woman who keeps falling off a skyscraper and also the band (4 members). I normally would have figured it out but there are too many damn songs titled "Wake up". Thanks --Srikeit 11:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't know much about pop music, and I don't know what the video is for this song, but is it Wake Me Up When September Ends? | A ndonic O Talk 11:52, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Wake Me Up Before You Go Go, by WHAM! ? (That's a duo, not a quartet, however.) StuRat 12:07, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure you mean "Bring Me to Life" (sample) by Evanescence, in which Amy Lee dreams she's falling off a skyscraper, and the band try to save her, but fail. La  ï  ka  12:13, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Yep its Bring Me to Life by Evanescence. Merci Beaucoup :) --Srikeit 15:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Northern Soul(?) song
I heard a song on a club, once, which I think is some Northern Soul or American 60's-70's Soul Music track, with, IIRC, the chorus going something like "You gotta swim, swim, swim, swip upstreams cross the water, with no one to help you out!" Does this song sound familiar to anyone? Anyone know the band name or song title? I tried googling the lyrics, without finding anything. 惑乱 分からん 13:14, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok it is nothing like it but Jill Scott A Long Walk does have the word upstream and is a good song. meltBanana  20:06, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, thanks for recommending it, anyway. 惑乱 分からん 21:15, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * well...i tried to look for anyone te lyrics on mnay lyric websites but nothing with these wordscame up. Best of luck to ya. do your remember any other part of the song? i can look that up with my sources if you'd like.


 * Yeah, I tried to google the lyrics myself. I think it's a fairly obscure old song. IIRC, the chorus was constantly repeated, so that was what I caught... 惑乱 分からん 01:03, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Books released under different titles
Does anyone know why Philip Pullman's Northern Lights novel was released in the US as "The Golen Compass"? In other cases where this has happened (for instance, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone being released as "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" in the US because it was felt that a children's book with the work "philosophy" in the title would be less appealing - as it says in the article) I can see the reasoning behind the change, but I am baffled by this one. The article doesn't give a good reason, I was wondering if anyone knew more? &mdash; QuantumEleven 13:13, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The article does give a reason, but I would have thought it might be because fewer Americans than English would be familiar with the aurora borealis (which is what the term "northern lights" usually refers to in Britain).--Shantavira 13:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * It could also be a copyright issue. Northern Lights is also the name of a Canadian band, which might have been copyrighted in the US. I know a looong time ago, Shari Ulrich's band Pied Pumpkin had a terrible legal and financial kerfuffle when they were sued by the owners of the rights to Erica Jong's Fear of Flying, when they produced an album and called it Fear of Flying. Perhaps the opposite is also possible? Anchoress 13:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Unofficial fansite http://www.darkmaterials.com claims it was a down to a lack of communication between Pullman and the US publisher. Apparently in the intervening months between Pullman first contacting the publisher RandomHouse and RandomHouse agreeing to publish the novel, Pullman's working title 'The Golden Compass Says...' was changed to 'Northern Lights'. 'The Golden Compass' was used as the cover artwork had already been produced before they were aware of the title change. Here's the link . I seem to remember reading about this in The Guardian some while back, and I'm pretty sure this was the explanation given. Hammer Raccoon 00:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Also, look at the names of the other books in the series. It is possible that, when he came to release the book in North America, he had already decided on the form he wanted to give the titles and wished to keep them consistent. Although it was too late to change it in Britain, he could still make the names tie together in North America. This is a guess, but I assume you are asking for possible reasoning. Skittle 00:17, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Amour Fou
What does the notion of "Amour fou" cover? I always assumed somehow it meant a total and destructive love and that the notion was popular in France in the 60's in the wake of the romantic protester ideal. I just checked a moment ago the term to get more details on it and found no reference to it appart from in titles of works of fiction (and in Hakim Bey's TAZ). There is Breton's Amour Fou novel, a film by Jacques Rivette from the 60's L'Amour fou and an episode of The Sopranos "Amour Fou". Does anyone have more details on what the idea of Amour Fou might refer to? - Keria 14:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think (but I'm not an expert on the topic), that, just as in English "madly in love", it means a fierce and blind love, which may easily but not necessarily prove destructive. --Lambiam Talk  18:11, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * What I got so far: Amour fou: from French "crazy" or "mad love" a passion without concern for anything else. A love you can’t hold on to. A love that is so boundlessly mad as to involve sacrificing oneself. An unacceptable or immoral love relationship in which the lovers are opposites (age difference, different social status) and are attracted to each other because of this opposition. In psychoanalysis: a risk of experiencing hostility related to primary dependence. (<- not sure what that means, is it hate towards the opposition to one's love or is it transformation of the love relationship into a hate one?) maybe we could make an article out of it but I couldn't find any good source. - Keria 19:24, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Chartered Accountant in Germany
Hi there,

does anyone one know what the equivalent Qualification to a Chartered Accountant (CA) is in Germany?

Thanks a lot. Julian


 * If I understand the article Wirtschaftsprüfer on the German Wikipedia correctly, to become a Wirtschaftsprüfer you must meet some criteria and pass an examination, and then you can register as a member of the Institut der Wirtschaftsprüfer and thereby become a Mitglied des IDW. Does that answer the question?

Coat of arms - help
I recently found an old drawing of a coat of arms, but the usual sources can't identify it. It looks like the following: Seadog holding a black bird Helmet shield with 2 black seadogs (standing on 4 feet) in upper half on white background; lower half is 1 white seadog on black background. motto at bottom: Per Mare Per Terras Thanks. Ronbarton 19:01, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Sign your posts with four of these ~. Anyway, the motto is that of the Clan Donald, by sea and by land. --Cody.Pope 18:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

It's also the motto of many other families, but none of my relatives are commonly listed among those.Ronbarton 19:02, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Animal Sacrifice to Zeus in the Odyssey, Eumaeus and "Des-Troy"
Soem Odyssey questions, based on the Robert Fagles translation: 1. Why is the thighbone of the animal the preferred piece to offer to the gods in sacrifice?

2. Why is Eumaeus addressed in the second person by the narrator at times ("You, Eumaeus") e.g., Book 19?

3. Towards the end of Book 19, Penelope refers to Troy as "Destroy". Is this a pun in the Greek?

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.80.68.68 (talk • contribs)


 * This is a poor contribution but it's a start. According to my copy of Hyde's work on tricksters (reviewed here), in a sacrifice the orders of articulation dictate that the thigh go to the regional king or magistrate, while the gods take the bones and blood; they did so because bones were viewed as immortal, leaving the meat to mortals and condemning them to a life chasing after hunger (a tale which goes back to a disagreement between Zeus and Prometheus).Wolfgangus 19:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 1. I think they are simply regarded as the best bits. 2. This is probably to give the reader/hearer some familiarity with Eumaeus. While much of the poem recounts the deeds of the might from a distance, we are introduced to Eumaeus as if to a friend with which we can share what is going on, ish. 3. Dunno but the Perseus Project is good for comparing the translation and original. meltBanana  20:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * 2. The second-person address certainly does give an unusual effect. While there are other cases where the vocative is used out of metrical necessity (and some earlier scholars argued that this is the sole reason for Eumaeus), recent scholars' studies have suggested that it has some emotional significance; this review says, "apostrophe, a figure...which indicates the narrator's (or the audience's) sympathy. This sympathetic pattern is used for Menelaos but not for the protagonist Agamemnon... Patroclus and Eumaeus have this type address while the protagonists Achilleus and Odysseus have none."
 * 3. Not a pun exactly, but a striking neologism.  Penelope makes a new compound word Kakoilion, where kako- means something evil/harmful and Ilion is a proper name for Troy.  A very similar example occurs when Paris is called Dysparis (Iliad 3.39 and 13.769).  More properly a pun is in the Agamemnon, when a bunch of compounds with the hele- ("destroy") stem are made as puns on Helen's name.  Wareh 00:44, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Deaf or blind film directors
Have there been any notable deaf or (perhaps less likely) blind film directors? --Richardrj talkemail 18:51, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I doubt it. Our list of deaf people lists several deaf actors, and list of blind people says that André De Toth was a film director who was blind in one eye. Of course it's very possible that several film directors became deaf in their old age.--Shantavira 19:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * There is this guy. Skarioffszky 20:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Ed Wood? Oh wait...he only directed like he was deaf and blind. Clarityfiend 05:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

peace be upon him
Why do muslims say peace be upon him after the refer to allah?


 * It is not said in reference to Allah, but to the Prophet, Muhammed. Clio the Muse 19:08, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Peace be upon him (Islam) meltBanana  19:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I had asked this some time ago. How could somebody dead not be at peace ? Is there violence in heaven, according to Islam ? StuRat 00:08, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Nothing to do with Islam, Christians say Rest in peace, exactly the same thing. Vespine 00:37, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well RIP is usually said about ordinary people who may not be at peace. As the article says PBUH is mentioned in the Qur'an, at the time when Mohammed was still alive. Also it prevents the name from being used lightly if you have to offer a short prayer after every mention. meltBanana  00:48, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a general expression of veneration. It does indeed add weight to the use of his name.  Clio the Muse 01:09, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In Christian belief, dead people do not necessarily go to Heaven.  Some go to Hell, and some to Purgatory.  Both these places are full of torments, the only difference being that those in Hell stay there forever while those in Purgatory eventually graduate to Heaven.  "Rest in peace" essentially means "I hope you've gone to Heaven where there is peace and love and bliss, or will soon get there".  JackofOz 01:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I have never heard anyone say Jesus(rest in peace) since he is thought by Christians to be in Heaven at the right hand of God, expected to return when we leat expect it to judge the living and the dead. I did once hear a comedian say "If Jesus knew what was being done in his name, he would turn over in his grave!" Edison 05:32, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Essays by Jean Paul Sartre
Sartre wrote an essay titled "The Occupation of Paris". How can I find a copy of that for reading purposes only?

Bob Godfrey


 * I can't see it in his english or french bibliographies - Keria 22:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Is this, perhaps, from Combat or Les Temp Modernes? If so, I seriously doubt if many of these essays have been translated into English.  Clio the Muse 23:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Looking for an applet working out the political d'Hondt method
I was taking a look at d'Hondt methodand (as I wrote on the talk page as well) it would be nice to have some sort of applet working that out. I tried hard but didn't find any on the net. Does anyone know where one can be found? (sorry if this belongs in Computer desk or something) Thank you,Evilbu 19:41, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Freeza
Initially, in the fighting against Freeza, Goku fights without Kaiokenh and Freeza fights with 2.5% of his power? After, what percentualy of his power Freeza uses? And in what episode Goku starts to use Kaiokenh 10? --Vess 20:17, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * For the bewildered readers, this is a question about the manga/anime series Dragon Ball Z (although I don't know the answer...) 惑乱 分からん 21:17, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You might be interested to know that some people on the internet write "Furiza" instead, which looks more like the original Japanese pronunciation. I think Songoku started using Kaiokenh 10 way before that, when he was fighting Vegeta.  About the percentages, I don't know.  There was a lot of bragging in Dragonball Z about using powers etc...  I remember that Furiza first used only one percent, then went to 50% and eventually to 100 (he was bulking up then) when Songoku went Super Saiyan.Evilbu 00:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Alliance of North American Pipe Band Associations (ANAPBA)
How can I have information placed on Wikipedia regarding the Alliance of North America Pipe Band Associations (ANAPBA) www.anapba.org ?

Thanks


 * See Articles for creation. DJ Clayworth 21:37, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

yeah
wikipedia, this is jesse king. account is jk31213. why am i blocked from editing. i threatened you guys for a reason.
 * Perhaps you were blocked for threatening?.... =S Seriously, you canot act like that just for reverted edits. 惑乱 分からん 21:22, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

the point is, i have made edits to countless articles and EVERY single one of them have been changed around. what i put on here is true. i just don't understand...69.31.216.242 22:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Can you exemplify? This is open source. We do change things around. That's the whole idea. Not everyone agrees with what you said - even if it is true. They may have been changed for other reasons.22:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Have you seen your talk page ? People are giving reasons for changing your edits around, if you disagree you can always argue your point in the article's discussion page. Wikipedia is a community that does things by concensus, there's no room for angry teenagers who spit the dummy and make threats when they don't get their way ;) Vespine 23:06, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Have you noticed that the edit page says:

Please note:


 * If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it.
 * A ndonic O <i style="font-family:Times New Roman; color:Tan;">Talk</i> 01:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC).

>>>i agree. if your going to post things that threaten or SHOULD be edited for some reason even if it is just your opinion then be prepared for it to be edited. hell..i got suspened for two weeks when i was in school for threatening to kill someone...even though i was joking and everyone knew it. things like thatare not taken lightly. im sure there is a reason you threatened but they have a right to change it.<<<


 * And if you keep adding things like "he is considered the greatest ..." your edits will keep being reverted as unsourced POV. --Lambiam Talk  09:17, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Jesse, have you read the response to your earlier question, above? Sam Clark 10:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Definition of a Multi-cultural Society
Hello,

My friend and I have been having a protracted argument over the above. I am currently in Britain and I feel that Britain is a multicultural society since it has many different 'cultures' in it, such as Muslims, Jews and Christians. All these different religions and cultures exist under one government and one constitution so therefor we live in a multicultural society - in my belief. My friend argues that despite different cultures living under one constitution (perhaps not the right word) and in one country, we do not integrate ourselves together well enough to be truely described as 'Multicultural'. An example that could be used, he says, is a Muslim in England will rarely enter into a relationship, friendship or otherwise, with a Jew and vica verca (example only, don't yell at me). I believe that although Britain is a Multicultural society, it is an intolerant one and this is what my friend is referring to when he speaks of it as being non-multicultural.

Sorry if this is hard to understand, but a third party opinion would be helpful,

Thank You, A Ron


 * The term multi-culturalism has long been used by the government and other public agencies to describe life in the UK. More recently fears have been expressed that this might be leading to a form of 'cultural apartheid', with no clear definition of what it is to be British.  Clio the Muse 23:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Based on Wikipedia's article, you are right. Multiculturalism doesn't require different cultures within a society or a nation-state to integrate and learn about each other, the term for this is interculturalism. Multiculturalism just means that different cultures are bound together by laws, which provide them equal status. Of course, equality here is merely legal, and may not reflect the relations of power in real life. Moonwalkerwiz 00:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

The UK Cant be called as multi-cultural. This is apparent from racist acts on the muslims, on the other minority communities. on a comparison of the way each culture tolerates the existence of the others India is a multi cultural society. Because it can accept different cultures and tolerates any act of terror. Unlike in the west where minute differences are created in the mind and simply complicated and taken to a different level. 22:12, 1 December 2006 (UTC)~


 * Thank you for your contribution. I think you might be a little confused here, if you forgive me for saying so.  Islam is not a race but a religion, and by definition cannot be subject to 'racist' attacks, as opposed to the individuals who practice Islam, who obviously can.  Also, I have to say that I find your statement about tolerance in India a little perplexing, considering the violent attacks in the recent past by Hindu nationalists on Muslim religious sites and communities.  Clio the Muse 08:59, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * As I said, according to Wikipedia, equality in multiculturalism is merely legal and may not reflect the relations of power in real life. It maybe merely a political and economic strategy of nation-states in meshing with the globalized world. It doesn't guarantee real equality among cultures. Moonwalkerwiz 00:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)