Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2007 February 10

=February 10=

Mississippi settlement history
The two articles for Biloxi (Mississippi) and Ocean Springs (Mississippi) both claim to be the first French settlement in the region (founded by Pierre Le Moyne d'Iberville in 1699) and to be the first capitol of French Louisiana. Which city really was first--Biloxi or Ocean Springs?

Both of these also make the general article about Mississippi look misleading: the state article mentions no European activity before 1817.

All the best-- --Rick Gagne, Clinton, Mississippi


 * The Pierre Le Moyne d'Iberville page says that the fort, called "Maurepas or Old Biloxi" was built near Ocean Springs, Mississippi. The Ocean Springs page says the fort was maintained into the early 1700s. It sounds like the settlement was originally built near present-day Ocean Springs and moved to present-day Biloxi, Mississippi at some point, while Ocean Springs did not become a town in its own right until the middle 1800s, apparently. The French settlement was never called Ocean Springs in any case. Personally I would say the first settlement was Biloxi, even if its location changed by a mile or two. The Mississippi page looks to contain colonial information to me. It even mentions Ocean Springs as the site of the 1699 settlement. Pfly 04:32, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Death and coercion: THE themes of American fiction
I was reading an anthology of science fiction stories, choosing them at random, and it occurred to me that each and every one of them had the theme of death and coercion. Then I thought about other American classic novels - they've also got the theme of death and coercion - even Huckleberry Finn. American movies - lots of death and coercion! (Hmmm, same thing for US foriegn policy). The only novels I can think of without these themes are for example the British novel Pride and Prejudice, although on the other hand the British classic Wuthering Heights also has the themes death and coercion.

Can anyone disprove this idea by suggesting American classic novels that do not have the themes of death and coercion?


 * Analysis is like statistics, one can find what they look for, and miss what they don't look for. To reduce novels to merely being about death and coercion is equivalent to saying the Christian Bible is about morals or that The Prince is about power by any means. However, without attempting your survey, there is demonstrably, truth to it.
 * It has been said that there are few stories, all are retellings of others, with changes of scene, not theme. Rites of passage define lives, and so are worthy with which to construct stories. In modern times, it is popular to reduce the rites of passage in terms of importance. Death is unavoidable, but childhood little celebrated. Marriage little respected. Family disendorsed. In such a climate, what does it matter that a mother betrays a child? In a belief without god, death becomes a mighty abyss for which delay is the only response and the failure to delay, the only tragedy. A substantial decoding of this thesis is available as Ursula Leguin's Wizard of Earthsea series.
 * Love is not merely about sex. Romance, not merely lust. Childhood is not random. Maturity is not an end. Growth and sacrifice are intertwined. Go back to your stories, and if you don't focus on those leftist apologies which diminish timeless values, you will find more ;) DDB 01:10, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * And now back to the original question, which was whether we can think of classic American novels that do not have themes of death and coercion.
 * Coercion is a fairly broad term which could describe many types of behavior. Many novels contain scenes in which someone compels someone else to do something, but this does not mean that coercion is a theme. Likewise death - someone may die in the novel without death being an important theme. As examples of American novels in which death and coercion aren't major themes, I give you the following examples, all from the Modern Library Best 100 Novels or Time Magazine 100 Best Novels: On the Road, Catcher in the Rye, The Corrections, Revolutionary Road, The Sportswriter. --Grace 06:30, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Excellent picks Grace. I've not read them. I think you are correct in suggesting that The Catcher in the Rye is neither about death or coercion, although one might view the motivation of the death of the brother, Allie, or the failure (and dumping) from school might fill both aspects. DDB 07:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * As the others have said, a book in which someone dies or is coerced does not mean that death and coercion are themes. I think DDB's response was beautiful! And an idea such as this cannot technically be "disproven". We might be able to suggest examples that will sway your opinion, but proof is another thing altogether—it requires objective evidence, whereas deciding a book is "about death" or "about cats" is highly subjective. I will add to Grace's list by adding The Great Gatsby (F. Scott Fitzgerald) which deals more with wealth and the American Dream (though coercion and death certainly have their part). − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 07:56, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * "Love And Death IN The AMerican Novel" by Leslie Fiedler is pretty interesting on this topichotclaws**== 09:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Interoperability
I have to write an essay on interoperability. I know the specific technical definition relates to ICT, but do you think it can also apply to other standards? Such as electrical plugs, railway lines, shipping containers, or even economic aspects like monetary union and the like? I'd be interested to know how various people have seen it used. Thanks---


 * Keep in mind it has other meanings. In a military context, it means the ability of units, armies, even nations, to successfully collaborate. Trekphiler 03:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Arabs in Latin America
I heard this Arabian dude that he said lots of Arabs lived in Latin America. Is this true? and which Arab country do they mostly come from? Lebanon?

I have no specific knowledge, however, Nazis collaborators were Syrian and after world war 2, some Nazis stayed in Syria, some fled to South America. I imagine there was some natural, legitimate transport avenues from the Middle East to South America. DDB 07:04, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Lebanese, Syrians, Palestinians (Latin America, Immigration to Brazil). − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 12:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * For some reason the Palestinian Christians of Bethlehem and the surrounding area were particularly fond of emigrating to South America. This began in the 1870s and continued right through the first half of the 20th century. -- Necrothesp 19:06, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I live in Brazil and I think Arab immigration to here is akin to that to the United States, meaning there are "lots" of Arabs here more or less the same way there are lots of Arabs in the US. Most of Arab immigrants to Brazil are definitely Lebanese. There are a lot of Turks as well, I guess. I found the article Arab Brazilian, which contains among other things the interesting fact that Paula Abdul is the daughter of an Arab Brazilian. A.Z. 20:16, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't know if I might've misunderstood you, but Turks clearly are not Arabs. The language is completely unrelated. 惑乱 分からん 23:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * See also Arab diaspora.
 * You haven´t misunderstood me. I really didn´t know whether Turks were Arabs or not! Thank you! A.Z. 07:40, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * To the best of my knowledge, Jews clearly aren't Arabs either. Paula Abdul is Jewish on both sides. Her father is a Brazilian Jew of Syrian Jewish descent. The Arab Brazilian article is rather misleading. It mentions that some who clearly are not Arabs are still considered "Arab Brazilians". Perhaps this is the source of you confusion. Loomis 04:25, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I think Jews could be Arabs if they speak the Arabic language, primarily. See Arab and Mizrahi Jews. (Of course, the same thing goes for Turks.) 惑乱 分からん 11:20, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Trivial stuff
2 things I'm hoping somebody know. First, the first Purple Heart awarded to a woman went to Lt. Annie Fox. Was she a WAC or a WAAF? Second, what show was #1 in ratings & a Golden Globe winner, but never an Emmy winner? Thanks! Trekphiler 03:13, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * According to this site she was chief nurse at Hickam, which means she would have been in the Women's Army Corps (WAC) rather than the Women's Auxiliary Air Force (WAAF). − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 08:12, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Whoa, fast service! Thanks. Trekphiler 00:45, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

what to do about an illegal marriage?
What should be done about someone who goes to a foreign country and marries behind the back of his current wife? He doesn't suppot the children he has with the current wife, but does send money to his illegal wife in the foreign country. 68.13.61.53 06:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It depends on the spousal and parental support and responsibility laws in the country where the father and his legal wife live, as well as (possibly) the marriage and extradition (that's not the exact word I mean but I don't know the word I want) laws in the country where he married for the second time. The people involved should get legal help from experts in those laws. Wikipedia cannot give legal advice, but if you say where they are we can possibly help you look for more information. Anchoress 21:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Sinclair Lewis
I'm writing to report abuse and refer you to the wikipedia article on Sinclair Lewis. Please confirm receipt and advise.
 * It seems to have been fixed. If you see vandalism, you can also repair it yourself. Clarityfiend 20:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

ly
where did the word LY COME FROM IN THE BIBLE OR WHERE?
 * "Ly" isn't a word. BenC7 12:33, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * ... but ly might help you...-Shantavira 13:44, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * If you'd happen to refer to lye, the word is of Germanic/Proto-Indo-European origin, from a root word meaning "wash". 惑乱 分からん 16:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Parents name on birth certificate
In the USA, in Massachusetts, the mother can put anyone's name on the birth certificate as the father. Is this true in other places such as in other states and in the Bahamas? 71.100.10.48 17:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you sure about this? A birth certificate is a legal document. If someone deliberately falsifies that information, in most places they would guilty of an offence.--Shantavira 10:05, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I've had two kids; both were born in Massachusetts hospitals, and in both cases, I was the one who handled all the birth certificate form-filling.  The resident nurse took my own license as proof of my identity, but then went on to take me at my word for all information given; as such, I could have put any name I wanted down for anything. Oh, did I mention?   I'm the FATHER.   The mother was sleeping off a c-section at the time.  This isn't proof of anything, of course, but I fail to see how such a law as the OP describes would be enforcable, or even consistent, with the birth-certificate experiences I've had.   Jfarber 19:11, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Every state, province, and country has different laws. Since the Bahamas is a foreign country, its laws may be completely different than that in a US state. -- Charlene 11:26, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Irish Migrations after 1606
The Irish who left Ireland after 1606 fled to various parts of Europe. A good number went across Northern Europe and settled in Poland and Lithuania. I should like to know about these migrations and where either the Irish or Scotch-Irish settled in these countries. Apparently they were welcomed as soldiers and tradsepeople. Can you help me, please? Rshainc 21:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC)Richard S. Cohen


 * Your premise is wrong. Most of the Irish who left Ireland after 1606 emigrated to the Americas. alteripse 15:39, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't know if that's the case. Many became mercenary soldiers in Europe.  See Flight of the Wild Geese etc. AnonMoos 21:21, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No "Scotch-Irish" emigrating in 1606 (that's the start of the immigration), so probably Scots. 1606 is too early for an Irish diaspora. Scottish people should cover this, but doesn't yet. There's a very quick summary of Scottish emigration to the Baltic in Jenny Wormald (ed), Scotland (Oxford University Press, 2005). It mentions Paul Dukes, The Caledonian Phalanx: Scots in Russia (Edinburgh, 1987) among the sources. There's nothing specifically on Poland-Lithuania, although that was a destination for migrants from, well, back when it was still Poland. Webwise, the BBC has some stuff. Try here. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:52, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the Flight of the Earls? I believe that the very first immigrants left around this time, aboard a vessel called Eagle's Wing, hence the musical of that name.martianlostinspace