Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2007 May 3

= May 3 =

Famous Greeks
What were the achievements of these famous Greeks? a)Aeschylus b)Alcibiades c)Alexander the Great d)Archimedes e)Aristophanes f)Aristotle g)Cleisthenes h)Draco i)Euripedes j)Homer k)Herodotus l)Hippocrates m)Myron n)Pericles o)Pesistratus p)Pheidias q)Philip of Macedon r)Plato s)Pythagoras t)Sappho u)Socrates v)Solon w)Sophocles x)Thucydides

If you going to refer them in each article of them, please tell me which says what and which word starts, that way I will understand what you mean. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.64.53.151 (talk) 01:13, 3 May 2007 (UTC).


 * You are looking for an awful lot of information. All you really have to do is to type each of your names into the search box to find out what it is that you want to know about these individuals.  However, I have now linked all the names on your list to make it easier for you.  Clio the Muse 07:14, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Let me just add that there remains to be dispute about the ethnicity of Philip of MACEDON as well as Alexander. Although the concept of exactly who was or wasn't Greek is somewhat muddeled by the fact that the Greeks had colonies all over the Mediteranean, for example Herodotus was born in modern day Turkey. I doubt that most residents of say, Thebes would have regarded Alexander as being "Greek". I would love to respond in more depth but I have homework of my own to do. Gradvmedusa 07:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Since the notion of ancient Greece is a socio-historical construct, it is not clear what it means to say that the ancient Macedonians were not "technically Greek". I don't think the present residents of Thebes would agree that the Macedonians were not Greek, and I'm sure Philip himself would not have agreed that he was not Greek, technically or otherwise. Quoting from our article Ancient Macedonians:
 * Whether the ancient Macedonians were an ethnically Greek people themselves continues to be debated by historians, linguists, and lay people. However, the Macedonian Royal family known as the Argead dynasty claimed Greek descent, and Macedonians were admitted to the Olympic games, an athletic event that only people of Greek origin were allowed to participate. After the 4th Century BCE, the ancient Macedonians were universally considered to be Greek by their contemporaries.
 * Aww man...did anyone get the Thebes reference?Gradvmedusa 19:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Linguists likewise can't agree on whether the ancient Macedonian language was a Greek dialect or not, but in any case, by the time of Philip II of Macedon, the Macedonians spoke the Attic dialect of Greek, just like the Athenians. The name Philippos is pure Greek. --Lambiam Talk  11:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, "Helene" was a term that the Greeks used to denote a sort of pan-Helenic identity. Given that Alexander was taught by Aristotle, met Diogenes, etc., and given that Herodotus himself had used the term "Greek" for people that sniffy sorts would have rejected (Spartans, Boetians, etc.), there was Greek, and then there was Greek.  Alexander certainly saw himself as Greek.  Perhaps this is like the Normen who had only been "French" for a generation before they were out exporting French culture.  Utgard Loki 12:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Many of these people's achievements are eponymous: Pythagorean theorem, Plato's Republic, Hippocratic Oath, Archimedes' principle, Homer's Odyssey, the Socratic method and Sapphism. OK, the last one was a joke, but you get the idea... Laïka 17:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, Sapphism, yes, indeed. That would be the female equivalent of Sophoclism? Clio the Muse 18:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * ... a cousin of cataclysm, no doubt. :) JackofOz 01:14, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Consult a medical professional, if you develop priapism. (I'm not sure what the medical professional will do to relieve this situation in a non-surgical way, but I'm curious about the special ward.)  Geogre 01:52, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Ancient Greek Society
What were the social, economic and political role for members of the Greek society: a)Women b)Men c)Children (girls) d)Children (boys) e)Slaves —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.64.53.151 (talk) 01:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC).


 * To answer both questions, have you looked at the relevant Wikipedia articles on those topics? I mean let's see, Draco, first legislator of ancient Athens, gave them their first written constitution. I had no idea about that until thirty seconds ago. I am sure the other answers are just as easy to find. - Eron Talk 01:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Final exam/paper time huh? Well it depends on what time period you are talking about, not to mention WHERE in Greece. For example, the roles of women in Sparta and Athens were different, not to mention the role of women in say Mycenaean Greece Vs. Greece after Alexander. Try to narrow it down for us a little bit please. Gradvmedusa 07:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Not only that, but according to Solon's Timocratic system, there were men, men, men and, erm, men. --Dweller 10:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Department of Defense Dependents Schools
Do children attending DoDDS (Department of Defense Dependents Schools) naturally learn the language of the host country? For example, a child in a Japanese DoDDS learns Japanese. This means without taking the language courses offered by the school.--The Dark Side 02:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I would say the answer is no, I knew a lot of so called "military brats" in high school and though some of them spoke foreign languages it was not usually a result of prior schooling overseas. For one thing members of the US military tend to move around a lot, secondly it does not generally appear to be a requirement to study the language of the host country in DoDDS schools. See they appear to offer classes in several languages other then English, not just German, secondly only 2 years of a language are required for graduation, hardly enough to achieve fluency. Gradvmedusa 07:54, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I grew up in Japan and Germany. I attended DoDDS schools from k-12, & can attest that I never did "naturally learn the language of the host country." I did, however, always have the TV on, and learned to write Hiragana and Katakana by teaching myself, (Curiosity is a wonderful thing!) and took Spanish in school. I had "Japanese Culture" classes in elementary school on base, and we learned customs, dress, arts, manners, holidays, and a few helpful Japanese phrases. Since children can distinguish between sounds that sound alike to the adult ear, it is best to teach children language while they are young.

How does one post NPR interview to a Wikipedia site?
Shortly after the death of philosopher James Rachels, I was interviewed on the local NPR station and gave an overview of the life of my former professor. Is it possible to post this short piece (plays on Real Player) on the James Rachels page in Wikipedia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Rachels pence@uab.edu Greg PencePence 02:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The actual interview might be copyright NPR; surely you can paraphrase your own remarks and add them to the page (in a form that might better satisfy Wikipedia standards than quoted interview text would). AnonMoos 02:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I gather you want to post the audio. Wiki is developing a site to handle such media, it is subject to copyright restrictions, as is the photo media and text. try Commons http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/ to see about the upload ;) DDB 06:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * If it appeared on NPR then it is likely available through NPR's website. Just post the link to it to the page in Wikipedia, that doesn't violate any copyrights. --140.247.240.166 18:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Possible philosophical term
Perhaps this is vague, but I was wondering if there is a term for the phenomenon whereby the later stages of spiritual/psychological/philosophical developent come to resemble the primary stages of that development. An example would be the idea in Zen Buddhism that, for a beginning student, mountains are mountains; for an adept, moutains are no longer mountains; and for a master, mountains are once again mountains. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.206.19.11 (talk) 05:08, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

Madrasah and Schooling
I understand that Madrasah is Arabic for school. F J Gladman referred to "Bell's Madras System" of schooling which he said was invented by President of the Military Male Orphan Asylum, Egmore, near Madras. Bell's system is said to have been invented between 1789 and 1797, during Bell's incumbency. The school system used students as teachers and assistant teachers, some of the boys aged as little as 7, others as old as 14. The system allowed a thousand students to be taught with a single headmaster, and it was considered a worthy innovation in the nineteenth century. Bell died in 1832 and is buried at Westminster Abbey.

I am trying to find out who Bell was and if the system is different from traditional Indian Madrasah, as might appear in Pakistan. Gladman was writing this in his School Work book, published in 1886. DDB 05:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

A similar system, outlined by Gladman is the Lancaster System, named after Joseph Lancaster born 1778. The Lancaster system was adopted by the British and Foreign School Society which was Gladman's employer. found some refs .. DDB 05:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The Bell-Lancaster method is a name for the same system developed independently by Andrew Bell and Joseph Lancaster. If the designation "Madras system" is derived from the place name Madras, there is probably no connection with the Arabic word madrasah; see Chennai. My understanding, for example from the information found on this page, is that Bell's development of the system was a genuine innovation, introduced against strong opposition from the assistants in the Asylum, and therefore presumably essentially different from traditional Indian schools. For Indian madrasahs in the sense of Islam school, see Madrasahs in India. --Lambiam Talk  11:31, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Natural Born Citizen With Deported Parents
I'm trying to determine what would be most likely to happen in the following circumstances. First, a child a is born to legal temporary residents of the United States. That child is now a citizen. Later, both his parents are deported back to their country due to failure to maintain their legal immigration status. The child is not yet 18 years old- let's say 16. Let's say that the parents own a house and other goods. Can they transfer their property to him and can he continue to live as an emancipated minor, or is there some hidden issue I haven't yet discovered is my search? This is merely a thought question- there are no actual details to go with this. DeepSkyFrontier 06:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming that the child was born in the United States, or otherwise he could not be a natural born citizen. See birthright citizenship in the United States of America and US nationality law.
 * Whether he is emancipated or not is an issue for a State court to decide however. See emancipation.  If he is not emancipated (and I wouldn't wager too highly on emancipation), then he would not have reached majority yet, and all of his property would be held by his legal guardian.  I would assume though that they can transfer though otherwise; I don't think that deportation would change their ability to assign their property unless the government seized it for some other reason. –Pakman044 08:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * See Anchor baby. Corvus cornix 23:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

German novel
Help! This is driving me nuts! I'm trying to remember the name of a novel I read years ago. It's set in Berlin sometime in the 1920s, and deals with the adventures and mishaps of a man just released from prison. I can not be any more specific than that, sorry. 86.131.250.174 08:01, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think this may very well be Berlin Alexanderplatz by Alfred Doblin. The anti-hero in question is the unforgettable Franz Biberkopf.  Clio the Muse 08:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

YES, that's it! I could kiss you, Clio the Muse. Thanks so much. 86.131.250.174 08:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Self denying ordinance
Please explain the purpose of the self-denying ordinance. Why was Oliver Cromell exluded? 80.176.147.202 10:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you read our cunningly named article, Self-denying Ordinance? --Dweller 10:40, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, Dweller, that page, like so many other Wikipedia articles on English history, proceeds by a mixture of truth, half-truth and error. There is no proper context or background; it seems to suggest that the measure was moved in Parliament by Sir Harry Vane the Younger, when in fact it was Zouch Tate, MP for Northampton; and, most serious of all, it says that Cromwell was exempted from the terms of the Ordinance, when he was not.


 * To understand the significance of the Self-Denying Ordinance it is important to understand the nature of the Parliamentary rebellion itself. Parliament began its war against the king not in a spirit of revolution, but to preserve what it saw as the elements of the ancient constitution.  The Great Rebellion was thus, it might be said, a reaction against novel forms of royal absolutism.  As such, it proceeded at the outset in a wholly conservative direction, with command of the main Parliamentary armies being given, in accordance with well-established practice, to aristocrats like Robert Devereux, 3rd Earl of Essex, and Edward Montagu, 2nd Earl of Manchester.  Manchester was given charge of the Eastern Association, where Cromwell served under him as a cavalry officer.  However, as the war proceeded, it was clear that Essex and Manchester were at best half-hearted in pursuing the fight against the royalists, an attitude that became ever more apparent as the struggle became more radical.  The growing rift between the Lords and the Commons finally came to a point of crisis when the fruits of the great victory at Marston Moor were allowed to slip away at the disappointing Second Battle of Newbury.  It was after this that the political tensions between Cromwell and Manchester could no longer be contained by the established forms of command.  Manchester's whole attitude to the war was expressed at this time in his famous quote-If we beat the king 99 times he is still king, and so will his posterity be after him; but if the king beat us once, we shall all be hanged, and our posterity be made slaves.


 * The Self-Denying Ordinace, placed before Parliament in December 1644, was intended to end attitudes like this, by terminating the traditional command structure of the army. It was coupled with an ordinance for the formation of the New Model Army, which aimed at ending county formations, like the Eastern Association, by establishing a nationally recruited army, offensive rather than defensive in purpose.  Unable to hold a command in the army and remain in Parliament, Essex and Manchester had no choice but to resign.  Cromwell, who sat in the House of Commons, also had to resign his command, but was ordered to remain in place by the Committee of Both Kingdoms, the executive authority that was responsible for the overall conduct of the war, unwilling to dispense with a soldier of his talents. Although he could not be appointed to command the New Model Army, a position which was given to Sir Thomas Fairfax, his commission as Lieutenant-General of Cavalry was renewed for a series of forty day periods until 1647, when it was put on a permanent footing.  Clio the Muse 12:25, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

is today a normal working day in NJ, U.S.A?
Hi! Is today a normal working day in New Jersey? I am a little bit worried, that I used the wrong words in a private email sent to a work-email-address, because I do not have an answer yet... But I can wait until tomorrow - I just wanted ask somebody to cross-check my theory (3rd May says something about catholic feast day (is that like a holiday?))... :-) Thx. Bye. --Homer Landskirty 14:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * See http://www.state.nj.us/nj/about/facts/holidays.html - today is not listed. --Kainaw (talk) 14:48, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Thx. --Homer Landskirty 15:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

ancient cities II
A little while ago I asked about where I might find information about cities that existed it the past. tHe answer I got from that directed me to a few lists, but I actually need to know about a lot more cities. Is there any way I can do that as cheep as possible. The only idea I have had so far is to look up wikipedia articles on various cities and see how old they are. But this will take me a ridiculously long time. Does anyone have any easier suggestions? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.159.131.91 (talk) 17:40, 3 May 2007 (UTC).


 * How many cities do you need and how old do they need to be? --Lambiam Talk  19:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Can you define what you're searching for more precisely ? For example, do you want cities that have been continuously occupied since their inception (like Rome) ? Do you want abandoned cities that archeologists have dug up (like Pompeii) or only think they may have found (like Troy) or can't find at all, but still believe existed ? StuRat 19:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * You need a historical atlas. --Wetman 22:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Midwest Migrant Workers in the Mid 20th Century
The Talk Radio hosts are making much of Senator Clinton's comments about Hispanic agricultural migrant workers in the Chicago/Midwest area "50 years ago. There is an expression of doubt that there were any significant numbers of such workers in the 50's and 60's.  Can anyone provide credible information one way or the other. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.2.58.161 (talk) 17:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC).


 * The Bracero Program certainly brought migrant agricultural workers to the Midwest in the 50s and 60s. Here is a research report on this topic. About halfway through, citing additional sources, the report refers to the impact of the program on the Midwest.  Marco polo 18:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * This census table shows a dramatic (10-fold) expansion of the Hispanic population between 1940 and 1970, which suggests a large influx of Hispanics during that period. At least some of this was surely agricultural labor.  Similar tables for individual states are listed here.  Marco polo 19:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

News agency costs
Does anybody know how much a news agency licence costs? How much money has a newspaper or a TV channel to pay for it? --141.35.20.90 18:27, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not aware of there being any license required to sell newspapers (in most places, a least). The license fee for TV channels would depend on the country. StuRat 19:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I get the feeling he is asking about license fees for running stories of a wire service such as AP or Reuters. Gradvmedusa 19:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I strongly suspect that the price would depend upon the size of the audience. For a broadcaster with a strong signal in the New York area, the price is surely much higher than for a college radio station with a weak signal in Laramie, Wyoming.  Marco polo 20:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * This may be what you are looking for: FCC Fees Marco, you are right about how they determine prices.-Czmtzc 13:54, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The news agencies (like Reuters or AP, Gradvmedusa got it right) provide news to the media and the media pay for this service. I meant those costs. If those costs depend on the audience then there must be a number $ per 1000 readers/viewers, doesn't it? --141.35.20.90 13:29, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

The Associated Press calls them "assessments" or "licensing fees". You pay depending on what kind of medium you're planning on using it on (newspaper, online, television, radio, etc.), the size and location of your market, and how long you want to be able to use the story (for instance, if you have a website, how long you are allowed to let a story sit on your site). The actual amount varies widely and is not quoted on the AP site. -- Charlene 07:49, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Henry V and the Hundred Year War
Why did Henry V renew the war with France? Was he solely in pursuit of his claim to the throne, or were there other factors? What were the factors leading to the defeat of England after Henry's death? Janesimon 20:48, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, you could do no better than take your cue here from Shakespeare's play Henry IV, Part Two, where in Act 4, Scence 5 you will find old King Henry giving this death-bed advice to Prince Henry;


 * Therefore, my Harry,


 * Be it thy course to busy giddy minds


 * With foreign quarrels; that action, hence borne out,


 * May waste the memory of former days.


 * The 'former days' refers to his action in usurping the throne from his cousin, Richard II, in 1399, which forced Henry on to the political and military defensive for the best part of his short reign. Matters were largely settled at the time of Henry IV's death in 1413, though renewal of the French War was one way to ensure that all sections of the underemployed English nobility, including those who may have harboured some political resentment, would have a foreign outlet for their martial energies and material ambitions.  It is important to remember, moreover, that the value of a ruler at this time was still measured in terms of the military success that he brought.


 * Besides, for Henry V, there was no better time to renew the war. France, by every measure, was a more powerful nation than England, and most of the territorial gains made by Edward III in the fourteenth century had been lost during the reign of Charles V.  But by the opening of Henry's reign France had some serious internal problems.  The king, Charles VI, was slipping steadily into madness, and there were growing political rivalries between the Armagnac Faction, headed by Charles, Duke of Orléans and the Burgundian Faction, led by John the Fearless.  The dispute between the two grew in intensity, until John was finally murdered by his rivals in 1419.  It was this, more than any other factor, more than Henry's great victory at the Battle of Agincourt, more even than his successful campaign in Normandy, that opened a vulnerable and divided France to the full sweep of English ambition.  Henry's alliance with the new Duke of Burgunday, Philip the Good, who blamed the Dauphin Charles, the future Charles VII, for his father's death, brought the war within measured distance of a successful conclusion.  After the Treaty of Troyes in 1422, where Henry was recognised as the successor to Charles VI, French resistence was confined to areas south of the River Loire.


 * Why did the English offensive eventually come to nothing? The early death of Henry from dysentery, not long after the Treaty of Troyes, is clearly of some importance, as was the appearance of Joan of Arc in 1429, who managed to galvanize the whole French war effort.  But just as important was the heavy cost of the war, and Parliament's reluctance to provide indefinite supply, and the conclusion in 1435 of the Treaty of Arras, which ended the civil war between Burgundy and Argmanac, returning Paris to the control of the King of France.  Political conditions in England during the minority of Henry VI were also of some significance, as conflicts among the regents entailed a general loss of purpose and direction.  Also the French, in tactical terms, gradually learned how to gain the advantage of the English in the more imaginative deployment of their forces than had been evident earlier in the war, fully demonstrated in 1450 at the Battle of Formigny.  Clio the Muse 23:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

How much money is spent each month?
I'm trying to determine if the concept of creating a fund based on the unclaimed value of the planet, loaning this fund to governments proportional to their populations and paying the interest directly to all adult humans, while funding the U.N. is sustainable. Six quadrillion dollars at 1.3% would pay everyone a monthly dividend of a thousand dollars. Would individuals spending six trillion more dollars a month worldwide be a sustainable utility to the world economy? I'm not sure why anyone would resist getting another thousand dollars a month. Corporate boards would not be acting in the best interest of their stockholders by rejecting access to a new market worth six trillion dollars a month. So, if there is already significantly more than six trillion dollars spent in all transactions in the world in a month, it may be sustainable to spend six trillion more. If there is a place where this informaton exists it is beyond me and my daughters dial-up connection, Thank you.Stephenstillwell 22:27, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * And what of the unclaimed value of the rest of the solar system... what am I saying? the galaxy, nay, the universe! --Lambiam Talk  23:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the concept of money. An interesting fact about currency is that the more worthless a medium of coin is, the better it functions as money. I prefer to think of money as brownie points for the girl-scout troupe known as humanity. Divvying up the Earth on paper and giving the proceeds out to the world would accomplish nothing except to devalue the dollar. Vranak


 * The galaxy/universe thing is just unproductive. As for the brownie points, I think we agree rather closely. The "accomplish nothing except" is absurd since, any income for those with none has to have some effect and those people spending that income would have an effect.

Devaluing the dollar could happen, but if most of the six trillion dollars is being spent on durable goods, food, new production facilities, water purification, technology, etc, by mostly third world countries, U.S. corporations and therefore the dollar have just as good a chance of strengthening. If a devaluation did occur, would that devaluation be temporary or enough to be significant in any way? Keep in mind that each american would be getting an increase in income so a certain amount of devaluation would just be a wash.Stephenstillwell 16:13, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd like to note the snotty tone of answers provided. If you have no useful response, it's probably better for everyone and the reputation of the site to just not respond. I can get this crap on gather. Here, I think, is a reasonable response. [The answer to this question is not accurately determinate. The closest one could get is an estimate. If you start with the census or IRS and determine the total of gross incomes and double that, since incomes are paid and spent in separate transactions, add to that all corporate and government expenses less wages and salaries captured by gross incomes, add insurance payments, entitlements, stipends, unreported income, black market and other undocumented personal transactions and loans (which are about 90% newly created money in this country), your result will be a conservatively low estimate for this country. Since the information you seek is not compiled or studied to my knowledge, no basis exists for correlating the total volume of transactions to GDP or GNP or any accepted economic indicator, so the information would have to be collected and added for every country in the world. The ratio of total transactions to GDP may be an indicator of the efficiency of the economy, or may be relatively constant. The most likely location of this information would be economic journals. If the relationship has been studied, your answer could be derived from the studied indicator. Also see Liberation Theology.] There is no need to be a dick, just because you can be. A real reference librarian would be reprimanded or fired for the responses by Lambiam and Vranak. Mocking is a form of personal attack. Wikipedia is losing the benefit of the doubt.:Stephenstillwell 01:21, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Economics
Hi - I am going to start preparting for UPSC exams of India. Would anyone be knowing what books I need to refer for Economics ? Is there a list of books from UPSC commission ?

Thanks, Vishal

67.180.49.99 00:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)