Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2007 September 22

= September 22 =

Mussolini an anti-semite?
Was Mussolini anti-semitic? I bet Clio knows the answer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barnie X (talk • contribs) 03:53, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, he certainly wasn't always anti-semitic, having had a Jewish mistress for several years. However, as that article states, she became somehing of a hindrance when Mussolini began climbing the political ladder. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 09:56, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Anti-Semitism doesn't preclude having sex with a Jew or even liking one particular Jew. Most haters in the world have exceptions for a few "good" members of the hated group who "aren't like the rest". --24.147.86.187 19:04, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Does Clio know? Well, let's see!

This is an interesting question about an interesring subject, Barnie, because it raises all sorts of supplementary issues about the nature of Italian Fascism. Margherita Sarfatti is often mentioned to counter the suggestion that Mussolini was anti-Semitic; but did you know, GeeJo, that Sarfatti herself was a racist, promoting arguments warning of the dangers presented to European civilization by the black and yellow races? Even after she left for the United States in 1938 she continued her campaign, urging the Americans to save what she was pleased to term 'White Civilization'.

Mussolini rarely expressed himself in quite such blunt terms as his Jewish mistress on such matters. In the deepesr sense, Fascism, as conceived and practiced by Mussolini, was never more than opportunism translated into an ideeology; revolutionary, reactionary, religious and racist by turns. It certainly became anti-Jewish as Mussolini fell under the influence of Hitler; but even then it showed few of the pathological qualities of its German counterpart. In practice, Fascist policy in this area was considerably more lax than even that pursued by the Vichy regime.

So, what's the evidence for Mussolini's personal attitude towards Jewish people? Let's begin with the conversation he had with Emil Ludwig in 1932, where he declared, "Naturally there is no such as a pure race, not even a Jewish one...Race: it is a sentiment, not a reality: it is 95% sentiment. I don't believe that it is possible to prove biologically that a race is more or less pure...Anti-Semitism does not exist in Italy.  The Jews have always behaved well as citizens, and as soldiers they have fought courageously." The 1932 edition of the Enciclopedia Italiana defined Judaism as a religion, not a race. In the entry on 'Race' in the 1935 edition of the same publication it is written "...a race does not exist, but only the people and an Italian nation. There does not exist a Jewish race or nation, but a Jewish people; there does not exist, the gravest error of all, an Aryan race."

Mussolini's first meeting with Hitler in Venice in 1934 was not a success. Soon after he wrote a series of articles in Il Popolo d'Italia, the main Fascist newspaper, making fun of Hitler's views on the superiority of the Nordic races, going so far as to say that the only pure race in Europe, by the Nazi measure, was the Lapps. That same year he had an altogether more successful encounter with Chaim Weizman, the Zionist leader, who was given a signed photograph and told to look after himself; for "We still have need of you."

There is, therefore, no evidence whatsoever of anti-Semitism in Mussolini's general outlook; just the contrary. The transition, the new phase of opportunism, comes in the period from 1937 onwards, when he began to both fear and admire the growth of German power. The first anti-Semitic laws were promulgated in September 1938. Life did indeed become difficult for Jewish people living in Italy, though not impossible, and the law was never applied with any degree of thoroughness. Amongst other things when Mussolini insisted that Roberto Farinacci dismiss his Jewish secretary, in case the Germans though his new laws a sham, he still gave him 50000 lira-a considerable sum for the day-to give to her in redundancy money.

And so it was to go on into the Second World War, a policy strong in theory but weak in practice. Yes, it was reprehensible; yes, it shows the worst forms of moral turpitude; but no, it does not display any deep-rooted anti-Semitism. I mention one final example. In February 1943, under pressure from Himmler and Ribbentrop, Mussolini agreed that the Jews in those areas of Croatia under Italian control should be rounded up and sent to Trieste, prior to onward deportation to Poland. Orders were duly issued to his commanders. A few days later a telegram followed, "It is true that I have been obliged to consent to the expulsion. But you can use all the excuses that you like, so as not to hand over a single Jew.  Say that we don't have the means to transport them by sea to Trieste, and that transport by land is impossible". At about the same time commanders in those areas of France under Italian control received instructions from the High Command in Rome; "As regard the measures proposed by Il Duce in reference to the Jews: number 1 priority is to save the Jews living in French territory occupied by our troops whatever their nationality, be they Italian, French or foreigners." Clio the Muse 00:48, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I knew you would. Good on you, Clio the Sloane Ranger.Barnie X 06:00, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

If most jamaicans are mixed of black and chinese and most trinidadians are mixed with african and indian(hindu), What are most haitians mixed of?
Come on now!! i know we are all of african descent, yeah, yeah, i know!!! but what are the haitians mixed of? we have been on the island from 1502- present there has to be some other kind of race they have to be mixed with instead of being just black and nothing else? with all the immigration from the people. but what are they mostly mixed of? carib indian? german? arab? polish? or anything?--arab 03:58, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is a wealth of information. For most nations, you can type "Demographics of (name of nation)" into the search bar and find a pretty good article on the demographics of that nation.  In this case, that would be Demographics of Haiti.  152.16.188.107 05:54, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The questioner is actually a regular editor of Demographics of Haiti. The question is somewhat meaningless, in the sense that everybody is a mixture of many groups. After all, you have two parents, four grandparents, ..., and if you go back three centuries you are descended from about two thousand ancestors; it is extremely unlikely that these are all from one same identifiable "pure" group. All you can say at best is what is predominant. Most Haitians are predominantly from African descent. The question is also based on a false premise. I don't know what makes the questioner believe about Haitians that "there has to be some other kind of race they have to be mixed with". Being black is not and has never been a race. The Africans who were brought to Haiti did not form a race; they were already quite mixed. We cannot totally exclude the possibility of Viking, Japanese, Polynesian and Inuit ancestors of present-day Haitians, but we can be sure the contribution is not significant. There is no specific evidence of any substantial mixing for most Haitians, and there is no reason to assume it "must" have taken place in recent history (and note that almost all Haitians descend from ancestors who were imported not in 1502, but in the 18th century). --Lambiam 08:38, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way, it is also not the case that most Jamaicans are of mixed African and Chinese descent, and neither are most Trinidadians of mixed African and Indian descent. See Demographics of Jamaica and Demographics of Trinidad and Tobago. --Lambiam 11:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Two Rebellions
Thinking of the rebellions against James II why did William of Orange succeed and Monmouth fail? Captain Beaky 06:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * See Glorious Revolution and Monmouth Rebellion for more detail. But it's hard to win when you lose your head. Rmhermen 14:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Success or failure was no doubt dependent on many specific particular historical circumstances, but some fairly obvious broad general factors were that Monmouth was illegitimate, while William was legitimate (and William's wife was even closer in legitimate succession to the English throne than he was), and William waited a few years until the English upper classes were significantly more alarmed and disgusted with James II than they had been at the time when Monmouth made his attempt. AnonMoos 14:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The Monmouth Rebellion was really little more than a politically inept postscript to the Popish Plot, an assault on the Catholic and legitimate succession that had, by its excesses, alienated the Tory squirearchy, the backbone of England's rural administration. It was an adventure by a man who believed that an appeal to Protestant solidarity was sufficient; it was not. When that failed there was nothing left by a ragged army of west-country peasants. James and his Catholicism may not have been greatly liked, but he had done nothing as yet to alienate those who truly mattered in church and state, who, in any case, had little time for the mercurial Monmouth. By 1688 the situation was quite different. William may not have been an especially good soldier; but he was a skilled politician: even before he landed he already had sufficient guarantees of victory. But we cannot altogether discount the immediate reactions of James to both emergencies. In 1685 he acted as if victory was on his side; in 1688 his only companion was defeat. Clio the Muse 02:52, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Sala Nova del Papa
What is the story behind the Sala Nova del Papa in siena's Palazzo Publico? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.43.14.30 (talk) 08:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It tells an odd tale of Medieval propaganda and political spin, sometimes better known as the Alexander Cycle. The particular focus is upon Pope Alexander III and his political struggle with the Holy Roman Emperor, Frederick Barbarossa.  It shows Alexander's defeat at the hands of the Emperor, and his subsequent victory, with the aid of Venice, over Frederick's son Otto in the naval battle of Punta Salvore.  The second panel shows Otto submitting to the Pope, after which he is sent to intercede with his father, who in turn makes his own submission.  Thereafter the party proceeds to Rome, the Emperor and the Doge of Venice leading the papal horse.  In Rome Barbarossa is subject to the ultimate humiliation, lying prostrate before Alexander.  There are also depictions of the Third Lateran Council, and some anti-popes are shown being burned alive.  Wonderful stuff!  There is only one small problem: it's a complete lie!  Clio the Muse 02:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

André Antoine Bernard
Is anything known of this individual, active during the French Revolution? Pere Duchesne 14:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I hadn't heard of him, and he doesn't have an article yet here or on the French Wikipedia, either, which is a pity. See Liste des membres de la Convention nationale par département, Liste des présidents de la Convention nationale and Ballard, Richard, The political apprenticeship of Bernard de Saintes in History Review, issue 54 (March 2006), pp 45-50. He was a man of many names. Originally André Antoine Bernard, before the revolution he added the name of a small property his family owned and became André Antoine Bernard de Jeuzines. Later he was Bernard de Saintes, the place he represented in the Legislative Assembly, though he changed that to Bernard de Xantes, which looked less religious, and even later he called himself Pioche-fer Bernard, or 'Pick-axe Bernard'. He was a lawyer and revolutionary, one of the 'new men' of 1789 who became one of the leading Jacobins, responsible for the Reign of Terror. In 1793 and 1794, he became notorious in the Haute-Saône and the Côte-d'Or arresting suspected "enemies of the people", sending them to the revolutionary tribunal and the guillotine. He's also credited with integrating the Duchy of Montbéliard into France, previously a possession of Württemberg. In the French revolutionary calendar, his name-day was on the Festival of the Iron Pick-axe, and he changed his first name to Pioche-fer. He was a member from Charente-Maritime of the National Convention (20 September, 1792, to 26 October, 1795). The National Convention had a rolling presidency, so he held the title of President of the National Convention for three weeks in September, 1794. When the revolutionary government was overthrown, he was imprisoned with many others but was not among those executed. He was later exiled from France for voting to execute Louis XVI, and lived on until 1818. There's a portrait of Bernard by Jacques-Louis David in the Getty Museum which is online here.   Xn4  16:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, Xn4. Can you please turn this into a stub article? I can't soince I don't have your reference available. Thanks. -Arch dude 16:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No trouble. See André Antoine Bernard. Xn4  21:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Excellent work! Clio the Muse 23:09, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

IGCSE history question on why did some industries not share in the 'boom'? this is during 1919-1941
Q1... explain how new technology affected some older industries?

Q2... explain what impact the tariff had on certain industries?

Q3... explain the reason why the wages of workers in certain industries remained low in comparison to profits.

Q4... why should the government have been concerned about poverty in the USA during the 1920's?

Q5... do you think the government would do anything to help these workers? why ?

Q6... explain whether you agree or disagree with this statement? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.69.179.16 (talk) 15:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This looks like you're asking us questions from your history homework. You're welcome to search through our articles, such as the one on the Great Depression, but we're not going to do your homework for you. Please read the top of this page. If there is a specific part you don't understand, let us know, and we can try to point you in the right direction to find the answer yourself. Hers fold  (t/a/c) 16:47, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, the best place to look for answers is probably your course textbook. 203.221.126.101 18:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * And man, if you're going to bother to type it all out, why include the last one? --24.147.86.187 23:09, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If the OP had included only Q6, that could be interesting. —Tamfang 01:02, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Fenya- Russian Slang amongst Criminals.
Can anyone enlighten me on this? Wikipedia doesn't offer nearly enough and I can't find anything on other websites. I am writing a novel, and characters are part of Russian mafia, and I want them talking the right way, you know. Any help would be appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.234.2.91 (talk) 17:07, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "Yes, Mr. Putin" and "Right away, Mr. Putin".  Plasticup  T / C  21:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Here is an article in the Jamestown Foundation Journal about Fenya, with examples. SaundersW 21:43, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The Russian Wikipedia has a long list of "criminal slang" here. You could use the Google translations of the "meaning" side of the equation to trace up to good things on the "word" side of the equation that you might want to transliterate; if that makes sense. Most of the automatic translation is pretty bad though ("Give to the screwdriver sciences!"). --24.147.86.187 23:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

professions that historically were not paid
I've just read online (and in Imperium by Robert Harris) that Roman lawyers were not paid, at least in that they could not charge fees explicitly. This was apparently quite common for lawyers through to at least the Middle Ages, starting from the Ancient Greeks. Are there any other professions that historically were not paid, which we would now take for granted as being so? 203.221.126.101 17:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure. Priests and vicars. Rhinoracer 18:08, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Politicians. Heads of state. --Lambiam 20:42, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Early actors and what passed for directors. It used to be considered part of your civic duty; during the middle ages they started repaying you for the wages you lost due to rehearsal. Kuronue | Talk 05:58, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

African Boy at the 1904 World's Fair
Hi. I recently heard of an African boy at the World's Fair who was taken from Africa and made into a spectacle at the World's Fair. Can you find any information on this?69.69.206.67 19:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * See Ota Benga.--24.147.86.187 21:10, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * They used him as an example of "our" evolutionary link to other primates? Oh my God...  Plasticup  T / C  21:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Right. Though it is worth remembering—though it does not excuse much—that pygmies look very different from Europeans, and were one in a mood to be looking for "intermediate races" it is not surprising that they would be chosen as possible candidates in the early 1900s, when it was still not scientifically accepted that races could interbreed without creating sterile offspring, and the Civil Rights movement was still five decades off. --24.147.86.187 23:00, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Adrianople 378
please explain significance of battle of adrianople —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cryinggame (talk • contribs) 22:54, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you read Battle of Adrianople? - Eron Talk 00:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

It is not too much of an exaggeration, I think, to suggest that Adrianople was truly one of the decisive battles of the western world. Ammianus Marcellinus, the Roman historian, was to write of, "Those ever irreparable losses, so costly to the Roman state." It changed the character of the Empire: the Goths, though partly tamed by Theodosius I, were to remain as a distict entity within its frontiers; sometimes allies; other times enemies. Roman losses could only be made good by co-opting Barbarians into the army as Foederati under their own commanders; and, as always, military power has ways of translating into political influence. Adrianople also changed forever the essential character of the Roman military. It was to end the reliance on the infantry legions, the formations that had proved so formidable in the past, and upon which the Empire had been built in the first place. Less than a hundred years after the battle heavy cavalry had become the main offensive arm in the Imperial army, changing by stages into the Byzantine cataphracts and the armoured horsemen of the Middle Ages. Clio the Muse 01:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Samples of Middle Norwegian
Hi, I'm looking for samples of Middle Norwegian. Does anyone know where I could get images of Middle Norwegian documents, or links where I could get them? I would like as much as possible. Also, the wikipedia article titled "Norwegian language struggle" states "The last example found of an original Middle Norwegian document is from 1583.". That document is expecially important to me, and I hope I could get it. Thank you very much.70.74.35.53 23:02, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This question might have a better chance at Reference desk/Language. Xn4  01:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Jena Six and Sacco And Vanzetti
Today ,I saw something on TV,about the Jena Six.And then I started thinking about Bruce Watson`s New book about Sacco and Vanzetti.Sacco and Vanzetti The Men,The Murders and The Judgement of Mankind.Then I started thinking are there paralells between the two cases.My Question is do you see any paralells between the case of Sacco and Vanzetti and The Jena Six. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryan58 (talk • contribs) 23:21, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure. See also Scottsboro boys. Edison 03:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


 * At Jena there's rather little dispute about who did what when (which was the main issue in the Sacco and Vanzetti case), but instead a lot of concern about selective prosecution which appears to be selective along racial lines. By the way, a number of people who closely examined the SV case seem to have come to the conclusion that Vanzetti was probably innocent, but Sacco was very probably guilty of something violent (even if perhaps not exactly what he was charged with).  AnonMoos 11:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)