Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 August 9

= August 9 =

Fining an estate
In the United States and Canada, if a person convicted of a crime dies before being sentenced, can his or her estate be fined? Neon Merlin  04:03, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There was a recent case where Kenneth Lay was convicted of ten crimes in two trials. But he died before sentencing and all the convictions were vacated. His co-defendant in one trial received a 24 year prison sentence and a $630 million fine so Lay may have also been facing a large fine but his estate was untouched after the convictions were discarded. According to our article on Lay, "Civil suits are expected to continue against Lay's estate. However, according to legal expert Joel Androphy, claimants may not seek punitive damages against a deceased defendant, only compensatory damages". Rmhermen (talk) 04:20, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

What might "K.H." stand for?
In the title page of Charles Bell's book The Anatomy and Philosophy of Expression, as connected with the fine arts, it says "by Sir Charles Bell, K.H.". What would the K.H. be an abbreviation for? I looked at KH but nothing seems appropriate. I thought it might be Kingdom Hall, but that's too recent. Richard001 (talk) 06:06, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * He was a knight of the Royal Guelphic Order. --Anonymous, 07:10 UTC, August 9, 2008.


 * Ah, no wonder I couldn't think of it. Will add that to the image of the title page and "KH". Richard001 (talk) 09:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Some branches of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem us the "K.H." to stand for Knight Hospitallier. —Preceding unsigned comment added by "Fog46Horn" (talk • contribs) 01:34, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

calculating millionaires
there are 7 million millionaires in US but that number is very small because that calculates only investible assets. If you have one million in property and not in investible assets like stocks, you are not listed in that 7 million. I imagine there are 100 million households in US and some 50 million homes have total assets above a million. Am I right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.96.31.37 (talk) 06:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Your number seems rather high to me. It would suggest over 50% of houses lived in by their owners in the US are worth say US$750,000 (someone who owns a home worth this much will need to have other assets of over US$250,000 to be a US$ millionare). Remember many people don't even own their homes outright since they have hefty mortages and many people particular those with mortages or who have just finished paying of their mortages don't tend to have a large amount in other investments. Also AFAIK most statistics on millionares refer to individuals. If you're considering a married or similar couple with equal ownership of all assets, they'd effectively need to have US$2 million for them both to be millionares. Nil Einne (talk) 09:13, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This clip on NPR's Marketplace cites a 2007 report that there are 9.5 millionaires worldwide, with about a third of them in the U.S. As a more detailed example, Montgomery County, Maryland (in the Washington D.C. suburbs) is one of the most affluent counties in the country.   RealtyTrac gives the median household (not individual) income as $71,500.  As recently as April, the average home sold went for $543,000.  Even if the purchaser paid all cash, he'd need another $450,000 in assets to squeak into the millionaire class... and the value of the home has almost certainly declined since April. (I do like the title of the question, which reminds me of the collective noun "a grasp of millionaires." OtherDave (talk) 11:49, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You seem to be assuming that most houses in the United States are worth $500,0000 or more and that most US homeowners do not have large mortgages to pay on their houses. Both assumptions are quite incorrect.  Marco polo (talk) 14:39, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think "millionaire" usually refers to a member of a household worth over 1 million of whatever currency, not an individual. I'm not sure if the statistics people are quoting are households or individuals, though - the individuals figure is going to be large, which may account for the large differences between different sources. People need to read their sources more carefully and make sure they're talking about the same thing. In answer to the OP, I think the number of people with over $1m including their primary residence (other property does count towards the net worth, I think), but not without including it, is probably quite small due to the fact that a lot of people have large mortgages on their homes. --Tango (talk) 15:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * A real millionaire has a million a year.--Wetman (talk) 05:57, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I've never heard that as a definition of millionaire. --Tango (talk) 16:54, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Klangfarbenmelodie or not?
I'm wondering if I'm using the term klangfarbenmelodie correctly. For example, consider this excerpt from some modern electronic music: [[Media:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg]] Especially in the middle part of that excerpt, the sound has only one fundamental pitch that doesn't change, but the timbre changes in a regular pattern that makes it interesting. When I hum this song to myself I usually do this part by humming different vowel sounds to the same pitch, and I'm sure I could also play this on something like a didgeridoo and make it recognizable. Is that covered by the standard usage of the word klangfarbenmelodie, or does it really refer to something different? —Keenan Pepper 07:29, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't find a reference that excludes this usage of the term, but I guess wouldn't call it that, though the analogy makes obvious sense. I couldn't access your file, but the way you describe it and the didgeridoo example you mentioned seem to refer to an extension of the word melody, where change of perceived pitch, conventionally one of the constituents of melody, does not play a part at all anymore or is reduced to overtones (like in throat singing), and the "melody" is reduced to rhythm and timbre. I can't think of one word describing this kind of tone sequence though, so maybe klangfarbenmelodie is acceptable, I've just never heard it used in that sense. One famous electronic example where the term would apply, in the sense of (conventional) melodies radically fragmented among different voices and timbres, is Zappa's Jazz from Hell . ---Sluzzelin talk  17:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Was Charlemagne declared Roman Dictator?
Does this text, especially pages 286, 307 say Charlemagne was declared Roman dictator?--Dojarca (talk) 13:35, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes; also consul, tribune, and patrician. I don't think that is significant beyond "he was given lots of fancy titles", though. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you please translate the relevant piece? Should Charlemagne be included in the category of Roman dictators? It also seems that it is different from the procedure of appointing other emperors who never were declared dictators.--Dojarca (talk) 15:48, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * There wasn't much Rome in the classical sense (the Rome of Augustus or even Constantine) by the time Charlemagne arrived on the scene. Calling him Imperator Augustus made about as much sense as calling Henry VIII king of France: made him feel good, didn't cost much. OtherDave (talk) 17:20, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have something to say about the text?--Dojarca (talk) 17:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * You asked if he should be included as a Roman dictator. Nothing about text in that particular question, thus, none in my answer.  In the West, the Roman empire is considered to have fallen 350 years before Charlemagne; I don't think he ever made it to Byzantium, which was no country for old men.  OtherDave (talk) 23:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The discussion has been taken up on the language desk. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:58, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Web/blogs on insurance industry to assist in assignments
Dear Rossi, Xn4 and net friends, this is in continuation of my August 1st querry. Let me repeat the question briefly here: i have completed 75% of my assignment on insurance industry. the topic/focus of the assignment is: 'external treats to insurance industry'. i need inflation, interest rates, demography datas, etc. So, please recommend me any web sight, blogs, etc. who can help/ guide me in completing my assignments. Free sites will be highly welcome. Awaiting ur reply. Bye, bye. signed: kvees. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.162.168.166 (talk) 13:41, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Which country are you particularly interested in? The www.economist.com website has all sorts of technical data for many nations. Interest rates is more tough but you would be best trying the treasury website for the country you are interested in. e.g. the uk is www.hm-treasury.gov.uk . You can find demographic information for the UK at www.statistics.gov.uk along with a wide array of informaiton. I suspect for other countries there will be similar sites. If you want information on these things then wikipedia is your friend - Inflation, Interest rate and Demography of the United Kingdom. Suffice to say beyond getting into technical information about the changes that are occurring i suspect you are being asked to explain how these things may influence the insurance industry?


 * A simple consideration would be...Inflation can erode the risk of an insurance firm's protection business, but can reduce their returns on investment markets (if you are insured for 100k over 20 years and die in year 3 it will cost the insurance firm more - due to inflation - than if you died in year 18 - of course this must be counterbalanced with the fact that most insurance firms offer fixed premiums and so the money received in earlier years is liable to be 'worth more' than in later years)... Demographics - the make-up of a nation will alter the way the profit-management department will price the risk, it will also alter how the industry develops products and what type of market they aim at. An ageing population will attract (perhaps) more equity-release products, funeral-payment policies, whole of life plans, critical illness policies etc. The demographics of a country and the way it changes also alter the way underwriting is assessed and how risks are determined for price-setting purposes. There's a million other things that could be theorised as having an influence and i'm sure my very limited theories are full of flaws but hope they provide useful in some way. ny156uk (talk) 22:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia
Does anybody know anything about the force of Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia? Especially was their intruduction a one sided move by Russia on the request by South Ossetians or are they internationally recognized? What's the UN position on the issue of Russian peace keepers in South Ossetia? Mieciu K (talk) 16:05, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They have a UN SC mandate and acting under CIS umbrella (these are international CIS forces, in equal proportiona Russian, Ossetian and Georgian). But after the Georgian attack, Russia moved some additional Russian forces into Ossetia to help the peacekeepers.--Dojarca (talk) 16:16, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Can you mention which exactly UN SC council resolution support Russian troops placement in South Ossetia and what is their mandate according to the UN? Mieciu K (talk) 16:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well this is probably resolution 937 based on Moscow agreements .--Dojarca (talk) 17:00, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * This document only mentions Abkhazia, there is no mention of Ossetia. Mieciu K (talk) 18:44, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Bengali Kshatriya
Is there an upper caste of Kshatriya in West Bengal and Tripura and what is their surname? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.117.37 (talk) 17:54, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Afro-Arab
Is there a population of Afro-Arabs in Arab Gulf States because of Slave history? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.117.37 (talk) 17:55, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There was a very large amount of cultural interaction between the Arab people and the (other) people of Africa. How much of this involved slavery is difficult to determine. The Aksumite Empire did take slaves and did conquer part of Arabia but it is not clear how much slavery was involved. -Arch dude (talk) 15:48, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In some of the Gulf countries slavery wasn't abolished until the 1960s, and many of the freed slaves were African. See also a similar question "Black population in Arab World" two months ago. ---Sluzzelin talk  16:00, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Kierkegaard on television
Where can I find Kierkegaard's quote in which he predicts the advent of television? I believe he discusses the notion that it drives people mad. Any help is appreciated. Eduard Gherkin (talk) 18:20, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Here it is: "Suppose someone invented an instrument, a convenient little talking tube which, say, could be heard over the whole land . . . I wonder if the police would not forbid it, fearing that the whole country would become mentally deranged if it were used." Eduard Gherkin (talk) 21:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That seems an odd thing to say. Could you give the context? Or at least a reference? I'm intrigued as to what he could possibly have been discussing that prompted such a thought. 79.66.38.215 (talk) 05:04, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The above quote is on pdf page 78 (numbered 58 on the page itself) of http://www.plough.com/ebooks/pdfs/ThirdTestament.pdf. It doesn't say where Kierkegaard is supposed to have said it. See a Google search for other mentions of it. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:54, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

If the stock exchange is like a casino, where is the roulette?
I mean an investment where your chances of winning are 50/50. Mr.K. (talk) 18:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, for a start, the odds of winning in roulette are less than 50% - there is a house advantage because of the zero (and double-zero on some tables). Secondly, the stock exchange (or financial markets in general) isn't really like a casino. In a casino, the return is almost instant, in finance you have to wait a while before you get your money. That changes things, since it introduces an opportunity cost. That means an investment which had an expected value of breaking even would be a bad investment, since you could do better by just putting the money in the bank. Investments are compared with the risk-free interest rate, the greater the risk, the greater the expected return needs to be more than the risk-free rate (see risk premium). An investment with a similar risk to roulette (you lose everything 50% or the time and you win 50% of the time - ignoring house advantage), would need to have a pretty large risk premium to make it worthwhile - I'm not sure exactly how large. I don't know if there are any such investments (they could easily be constructed, though) - I'm not sure many people would want them, the risk is too great. --Tango (talk) 19:44, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, stock markets are not like casinos. In a casino, there is a known a priori probability between participants whilst stock markets are characterised by subjective probabilities and the outcome is the result of many investors acting on their opinions. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 22:38, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * A bet placed on a roulette is a zero sum game, either you win and the casino loses, or vice-versa. This is not the case with the stock-market where (assuming continuous growth) a person can buy at a lower price, sell at a higher, then the next person buys and sells at a higher price and so on and so on. Additionally with firms paying dividends the share-price need make no change, but the individual can obtain profits on their stock simply by holding the stock long enough to receive sufficient return from dividend-payments that their investment increased in value while the stock-price stayed stable. Here's an article on it: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/02/061902.asp and http://www.fool.com/news/foth/2000/foth000912.htm. ny156uk (talk) 22:36, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Making summaries, abstracts and indexes as a profession
How do we call a professional writer dedicated exclusivel to summaries, abstracts and indexes? Mr.K. (talk) 18:41, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "Indexers", apparently; see Indexing Society of Canada. --Allen (talk) 20:34, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Newspaper journalists are quite brief and radio ones even moreso, but fall short of indexing. This person is a Précis Writer . Julia Rossi (talk) 10:38, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Name of piece of music
Hi, my friend made this beat a long time ago, using a classical piece of music, but he doesn't recall the name. Does anybody know what it is?

Here is the file: Rozbeh_beat_classic_piano

--Funper (talk) 21:01, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It sounds like Johann Sebastian Bach, but I don't recognise it. --  JackofOz (talk) 01:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a sonata in F minor, K.239 by Domenico Scarlatti. --83.250.86.117 (talk) 18:43, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah yes. Previously known by the Longo number L. 281.  --  JackofOz (talk) 20:03, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Sodomy
Just how far back in time does it go? i mean when did it first appear? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.76.242.64 (talk) 23:51, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The word is derived from Sodom and Gomorrah, which would be a few centuries BC. But to suggest that was the first time anyone did it would be a bit ludicrous.  There's no reason to believe that this hasn't always been part of the human experience, so the first instance wouldn't be recorded.  --  JackofOz (talk) 23:55, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It's almost certainly pre-historic, which means it isn't recorded. --Tango (talk) 00:12, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well bugger me! i never knew that! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.76.242.64 (talk) 01:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Homosexuality in animals is very common, but we don't seem to have much information about actual anal penetration among animals, assuming that's what you mean by sodomy. Homosexuality in animals does mention anal penetration among bison, giraffes, and polecats.  A Google search for "primate anal penetration" turns up some hits I haven't looked into yet... but if it turns out that bonobos and chimpanzees do it, then I'd say there's a good chance we've been doing it since before we were even human.  (In fact, I'd say this question might be better suited for the science desk.)  --Allen (talk) 06:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * While the involved practices are certainly old and likely do predate homo sapiens, only humans seem to have a history of adding moral values, and I think the question can fit the Humanities desk. Unlike anal sex, oral sex, or zoophilia, the term "sodomy" is not a descriptive but a normative word referring to practices deemed sexually and morally deviant within a certain social codex. I'm re-interpreting the question as "when did a legal or belief system first codify certain non-reproductive sexual practices as socially sanctionable?". While we don't know the answer to this question either, one of the oldest documents seems to be "I.20" in The Code of the Assura, c. 1075 BCE: " If a man have intercourse with his brother-in-arms, they shall turn him into a eunuch." See also the article on sodomy laws. ---Sluzzelin talk  14:14, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course, this question is not restricted to homosexuality. Some men and women get into this activity too, and probably always have.  --  JackofOz (talk) 15:02, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * True, but it was the oldest codex I found condemning any kind of non-procreative sexual practice (or the implication thereof). Examples I found which outlaw certain practices regardless of gender difference or sameness (such as the famous Buggery Act 1533, but older religious laws too) all looked more recent. ---Sluzzelin talk  15:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you define "sodomy" simply as anal intercourse, then, as others have said, it almost certainly predates Homo sapiens. If you define it as a culturally stigmatized sex act or acts, then it dates to the beginning of cultural stigmatization of nonreproductive sex acts, which probably occurred among Homo sapiens.  However, this, too, was almost certainly prehistoric.  Even if the oldest surviving document condemning homosexuality dates to 1075 BCE, there were very likely similar older documents that did not survive and older prohibitions before the invention of writing.  One of the most basic dimensions of human culture is the control of sexuality, and this almost certainly extends back before the invention of writing.  The prohibition of homosexuality has been shown as a feature of many cultures structured by patriarchal kinship relations.  It so happens that the ancient Hebrews had such a culture.  The original condemnation of Sodom and Gomorrah is probably a story that was probably passed on through oral tradition for centuries before it was written down as part of the Jewish scripture.  This prohibition influenced the subsequent evolution of Christianity.  Very likely its origin in oral form predates 1075 BCE, and very likely earlier patriarchal kin societies condemned homosexual relations thousands of years earlier still.  That said, based on anthropological evidence, hunting and foraging societies do not seem to have developed strong patriarchal structures or to prohibit homosexual or nonprocreative sex acts.  Homophobia (and the prohibition of "sodomy") seems to occur only in agricultural and especially pastoral societies in which patriarchal control of women and wealth, and its transmission from father to son, requires mandatory heterosexuality.  So, the origins of "sodomy" as a prohibited activity could well lie in the Neolithic period, in which case it is no more than about 10,000 years old.  Marco polo (talk) 21:04, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Though it should be noted that yes, the Old Testament condemns homosexuality, but it also condemns about a billion other things as well. A huge component of the book, in fact, is all of the many things you can't do or God will do horrible, horrible things to you. (And it's worth noting that there is nothing in the actual OT that says Sodom and Gomorrach had an unusual amount of homosexuals in them. If I recall the only reference to homosexuality is that a number of men offer to rape some angels who they think are men. Homosexuality is not cited as the overall reason for smiting the cities. And let's remember that one of the "good guys" in that story ends up impregnating his two virgin daughters with no ill effect. I'm just saying, is all. The Bible isn't exactly straightforward in its advice for sexual behavior. ) I'm not sure, though, word-for-word, if homosexuality gets as much attention even in the OT as many other issues. (And most of the NT is about totally unrelated topics, like the importance of charity, which somehow get lost in the "holier-than-thou" political arena.) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 23:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)