Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 December 2

= December 2 =

Anglo-Boer War diaries
Question moved from the midst of the hunger question and given its own heading. Gwinva (talk) 03:16, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Did Francis Jeune who was the Judge Advocate General during the second Anglo-Boer War, or his deputy, left/wrote a bookor a diary about it? Did Sir Robert Finaly or/and Sir Edward Carson who were both the Solicitor General of the Crown and part of the Law Officers of the Crown (gave legal advises to the Cabinet and to the government)at the time of the Second Anglo-Boer War, wrote books or left diary on that time?

Oded89.138.121.145 (talk) 17:51, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Indigenous Australian population
Is there a site where I could find in-depth statistics about Indigenous Australian population from 1788 to present? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.244.107.151 (talk • contribs)


 * Strangely enough, we have LOTS of articles on Indigenous Australians. That's probably a good launching point.  If you dig deep from there, and follow the sub articles and/or references from that maun article, you will likely find what you are looking for.  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  04:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * There are presumably few reliable quasi-exact statistics available until after they had already been seriously impacted by Europeans, however... AnonMoos (talk) 10:53, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Active yoga cultures ?
I added a suitable title. StuRat (talk) 05:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

1)Spritual Dimension of YOGA?

2)Yogic concept of human body?

3)Mental health for better living through Yoga?

4)Application of yoga in Education?GEENA SAJITH (talk) 04:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Is any of this answered in our yoga article ? StuRat (talk) 05:15, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Is Yoga is a science and art ?
1.Yoga is a Science & Art ?

2.Role of Yoga in the New Millennium?


 * Let me google that for you like this and like this manya (talk) 09:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

British Ministers
These days, British ministers (not only cabinet-level, I'm referring generally also to Ministers of State and Under-Secretaries of State) are generally MPs. In the (rather distant) past they have often been Peers (okay, Members of the House of Lords, but we have to go quite far back to see the last Lord spiritual serving as a Minister). A couple of Lords (temporal) are still in Cabinet, most notably Lord Malloch Brown and Lord Mandelson. Question: Is there a statutory or other "laid down" requirement that ministers be either MPs or HoL members? I reckon, obviously, that it is an asset for Question Time to be a member of either house, but you could say that as long as one minister in the department is a member of either house (read: one Under-Sec for the HoL and one Under-Sec for the HoC), that would suffice and the Secretary of State needn't be a member of either house. Thoughts on this? (Yes, Cabinet is technically a Committee of the Privy Council, so cabinet ministers are Privy Councellors but that doesn't have anything to do with membership of either house of parliament). If this question is completely confusing, I'll try to rephrase... --Mbimmler (talk) 12:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It is my understanding that it is not necessary for Ministers to be a member of either house, although it has long been thought desirable to find a seat for any non-Parliamentarians who are to be brought in to a cabinet. For example, Malcolm MacDonald lost his seat at the 1935 general election, but was appointed Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs regardless, and did not return to Parliament until he won a by-election in February 1936.  A parallel example: David Bleakley was appointed Minister for Community Relations in Northern Ireland despite not being a member of either house there (he was legally limited to serving for only six months, but I don't believe that there is a similar restriction for the Westminster Parliament). Warofdreams talk 13:18, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

link needed
Hello! Can anyone let me know a good link where i may found a full report on the novel'Gone with the wind'by Margret Mitchell? Cheers.


 * Check the sources in our articles on Margaret Mitchell and Gone With the Wind. You can probably write a very good one yourself by reading up on the various sources described. In fact, my guess is, your teacher wants you to. :-) (A full report - makes it sound like you want the result of an investigation. :-)


 * The library will assuredly have most othe the books cited as references (I sure hope our articles have references, now that I say that. :-) ) But, remember that what you read should be part of it, too, as this will show your ability to grasp and evaluate the information you read.


 * (Voice of worried parent) You...er..did read it, didn't you?Somebody or his brother (talk) 14:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: If you merely watch the movie, there is material there not found in the novel, and considerable material from the novel omitted from the movie. Edison (talk) 15:00, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Bangladesh vs. Italy and Greece
Why Bangladeshi people migrate to these countries? Is it because they have a history with each other since the birth of Bangladesh?


 * If you're talking about illegal immigration, probably because those countries are easier to get to without expensive airline tickets. The country in Europe with which Bangladesh has the strongest historical ties is the former colonial power, Britain.  AnonMoos (talk) 16:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * If you're talking about legal immigration, the odds are that two factors play an overwhelming role: the difference in standards of living and the degree of difficulty involved in obtaining the right of abode. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:21, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't understand why there would be significant legal Bangladeshi immigration to Greece, considering that the countries have very few meaningful historical or cultural ties, and Greeks and the Greek government typically do not see themselves as any kind of country of immigration (so that Greece is currently in trouble with the EU for seemingly not even seriously considering applications for political asylum), and Greeks generally strongly do NOT want significant additional immigration of Muslims... AnonMoos (talk) 08:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Bangladeshis in Britain are mainly from Sylhet and the links are very long-standing. Most "Indian" restaurants in Britain are actually run by Sylhetis. I wonder whether some Bangladeshis in Italy and Greece are there in order to start up restaurants for tourists? I met someone in Portugal who was doing just that, but then it was in a town much frequented by the British. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:48, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * AnonMoos, perhaps the determining factor is along the lines of what Bangladeshi migrants want -- a European residence -- and less about what Greeks want. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:21, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Peter Mandelson - Inner Steel
Does anyone know where I could find a video recording of Peter Mandelson delivering his surprising and incredible "inner steel" speech in Hartlepool during the 2001 general election? I've been looking on youtube but their politics clips are disappointing. Richard Hock (talk) 16:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

National Colours in a Political Party's logo
Do you know of any examples where a political party's logo has the same colours or makes strong usage of that same nation's national flag?

Also, do you know if this is disallowed anywhere?

The reason I ask is because flags have strong significance in propaganda, and a political party that uses the nation's flag may be unfair - in fact if it were allowed (and I think it is) I would have assumed most political parties would want the flag in their logo.

My own example is the logo for COPE which uses the colours of the South African flag.

Rfwoolf (talk) 17:22, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The logo of the British National Party consists of the letters BNP overlaid on a Union Jack. Fortunately (POV alert) the BNP is very much a minority party. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 17:28, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The Official Monster Raving Loony Party's logo also uses that Union Jack overlaid by the party name, in this case superimposed on a shield, below a top hat. Warofdreams talk 18:04, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

See Sinn Fein, DUP and UUP. Maybe Hamas as well. Donek (talk) 19:31, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

The Liberal Party of Australia's logo incorporates the entire Flag of Australia. but leaning to the right, as you'd expect. The Australian Labor Party uses a surprisingly right-leaning Southern Cross, the Federation Star, and red and blue (different shades from those in the flag) - but not the Union Jack. The National Party of Australia's logo uses green and gold, the National colours of Australia. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:25, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Both major parties in the United States use Red White and Blue in their logo. See Democratic Party (United States) and Republican Party (United States). ---Sluzzelin talk  20:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

The Liberal Party of Canada is red and white and also has the maple leaf (though not, I suppose, the entire actual flag) in the logo. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:55, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I think its very common, throughout the world, that political parties use national colours. In India, the national colours are used by the Indian National Congress and its off-shoots. However, there are some exceptions. In France, I think parties are banned from using the tricolor in elections (I heard this somewhere, any reference?). --Soman (talk) 07:33, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

How about a reverse case? The Nationalist Party (Kuomintang or KMT) flag is the top left corner of The Republic of China (i.e., Taiwan) flag. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:27, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

How about a flag that's the same for the party and the country: Nazis. BTW, "a political party that uses the nation's flag may be unfair" is a cultural assumption--namely that people like seeing their flag all around. Especially in Germany, you almost saw the reverse pattern for years. And also elsewhere: Parties of the political right may be likely to use national colors, those of the political left more likely to use the color red. --Ibn Battuta (talk) 09:32, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * And don't forget the Front Deutscher Äpfel ! ---Sluzzelin talk  15:05, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

How to find the translations of a book
Starting with an original published work (with an ISBN), how can I find the translation of it? Is there any general archive that links original works with their translations? Mr.K. (talk) 17:30, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Some catalogues, like Copac, also give translations as search results for an original text. As a worked example, Terry Pratchett's Soul Music (paperback ISBN 0-552-14029-5) has a Copac record here. Wheras searching the entire database for all books named "Soul Music" by "Terry Pratchett" gives me all the translations that are registered with this database here. One thing to remember is that even though the work may have been translated, the writer of the original text is still the de facto author. Your mileage may vary considerably though with other authors and catalogues. Special:BookSources is a nice place to start if you're searching for a catalogue to try this with. Nanonic (talk) 17:50, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Particularly for books originally written in English, try "Basic Search" the author's name in the U.S. Library of Congress online catalog. Or contact the publisher of the original, particularly as they or the author are likely to hold the translation rights. -- Deborahjay (talk) 01:00, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

is it okay to cite Noam Chomsky on a political article?
I statement I made first got a tag added and then was removed. But it was not at all controversial, it is summarized explicitly by Chomsky and he gives a very good reference. Can I include his firm summary as a reference? He is the most-cited person alive. -- 20:23, 2 December 2008 82.120.107.213


 * Actually check out this link. "I wrote about it several times, but the editors understand that dissident material, no matter how well documented, doesn’t exist."  So my question about Wikipedia is, let's use an analogy, if we're living in Orwell's 1984 and I'm editing the article on Oceana, is it okay to include well-cited references that you can check for yourself on the Internet showing clearly that we were not always at war with Oceana, when the article (and all serious publications, such as the New York TImes) say "we have always been at war with Oceana"?  What is Wikipedia's position in these cases? -- 20:29, 2 December 2008 82.120.107.213


 * Content matters should be discussed on the talk page of the relevant article. This is not a question for the Ref Desk. ៛ Bielle (talk) 21:16, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, it is a relevant matter for the reference desk because I'm not asking about one article, but something affecting hundreds. My simple question is, is well-referenced but suppressed information, for example well-cited by Chomsky, allowed in Wikipedia or would it violate neutrality, original research, etc, etc? -- 21:28, 2 December 2008 82.120.107.213


 * By the way, it's "Oceania", and the actual phrase in the novel is "always at war with Eastasia". And a lot of the tabulated citations to Chomsky are actually to his linguistic works... AnonMoos (talk) 21:25, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * And why are you linking to a Norman Finkelstein site?? If anybody is a reliable source in political matters, Norman Finkelstein ain't! AnonMoos (talk) 21:38, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * If something is "well referenced" then, by definition, it is not suppressed, regardless of the topic. ៛ Bielle (talk) 21:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I have not looked at the references in question, but there is a LOT to be said about how you word your references. If you present a statement as a broadly accepted fact, where it isn't, that can be problematic.  For example, if only Noam Chomsky proposes that "A is true" where as most other sources say "A is false" then you need to report "While many sources generally agree that A is false[1] [2] [3], Noam Chomsky belives that A is true[1]."  You also need to be careful, and only use Chomsky's own sources for areas where he is considered a notable commentator.  For example, Barack Obama has recently come out in support of a Division IA College Football playoff tournament; however he's not a notable college football commentator so, though he is a notable person in his own right, his opinions on college football shouldn't mean squat and should not be cited in our article on the subject.  Just because Chomsky said it doesn't mean it needs to be reported, if he is not considered a notable commentator in that field... --Jayron32. talk . contribs  21:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This really isn't the place for such questions, which should be at WP:RS/N or the article talk page. Chomsky, or Finkelstein could be reliable sources or usable / notable sources depending on the context. Well-cited is ambiguous - it could mean the number of citations in the piece or the number of times the piece has been cited. Jayron32's advice above is good.  You really need to give more information about the particular article and edit to get answers other than sometimes yes / sometimes no.  Since Chomsky here is merely summarizing a "very good reference", there probably shouldn't be much of a problem if you use his summary, check the ref and cite both.John Z (talk) 22:48, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

All right, let me get specific. I want for our article International_law_and_the_Arab-Israeli_conflict to have a lead paragraph. I happen to have a specific summary from Chomsky:

There is near unanimity that all of this violates international law. The consensus was expressed by U.S. Judge Buergenthal in his separate declaration attached to the World Court judgment, ruling that the separation wall is illegal. In Buergenthal's words, "The Fourth Geneva Convention and International Human Rights Law are applicable to the occupied Palestinian territory and must therefore be fully complied with by Israel. Accordingly, the segments of the wall being built by Israel to protect the settlements are ipso facto in violation of international humanitarian law," which happens to mean about 80% of the wall.

Two months later, Israel's high court rejected that judgment, ruling that the separation wall, quoting, "must take into account the need to provide security for Israelis living in the West Bank, including their property rights." This is consistent with Chief Justice's Barak's doctrine that Israeli law supersedes international law, particularly in East Jerusalem, annexed in violation of Security Council orders. And practically speaking, he is correct, as long as the United States continues to provide the required economic, military and diplomatic support, as it has been doing for 30 years, in violation of the international consensus on a two-state settlement.

But when I added this information from the lead paragraph of the article I linked (which currently has NO lead paragraph, just a one line saying "this article is about..."), it got deleted. So my quesstion is, can I use this as a reference, since "there is near unanimity" according to Chomsky, who is the most-cited living person?
 * Chomsky, with his polarized stance on this topic, strikes me as too POV a source to lead the page. The passage fails rhetorically to qualify the scope of this position's support base: a mainstream reader encountering that opening phrase ("There is near unanimity") that goes on to cite a single spokesman for the "consensus" (of whom?), may recall the old toothpaste advertisement, "Four out of five dentists agree..." I suggest a more comprehensive introduction to the issue, perhaps continuing with a trimmed and **adapted** version of your opening lines:
 * " There is near unanimity that all of this violates international law. The consensus **[that...this violates international law]** was expressed by U.S. Judge Buergenthal in his separate declaration attached to the World Court judgment...
 * -- Deborahjay (talk) 01:20, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Why does Alaska have expensive gas compared to other states?
Wouldn't high oil production in that state make gas cheap?
 * Raw crude needs to be processed in order to be used by vehicles. So no, producing raw crude need not entail cheap gas prices.--droptone (talk) 20:50, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Most Alaskan oil is shipped or piped south. Much is refined in California.  You can see our list of oil refineries that Alaska does have some refining capacity, but I'm pretty sure that it's all just to help standardize some of the heavier crude for shipment (so it doesn't stick in the pipes, for example).  Most gasoline production in the US takes place in our around the Gulf of Mexico.  Some in California.NByz (talk) 21:38, 2 December 2008 (UTC)