Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 July 24

= July 24 =

corporate actions
How many corporate actions are available world over? What are the effects of these corporate actions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pratapbalu (talk • contribs) 08:11, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Not entirely sure what you're asking but have a look at Corporate action if you haven't done so already. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 08:18, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * See this random page from google for a list that's definitely not exhaustive. The effects will vary from action to action. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 08:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * If you are asking how many different types of corporate action there are, then it is impossible to give an exact answer to your question. It is a bit like asking "how many different types of transport are there ?". First problem is one of where you draw the boundaries in your taxonomy - is a tuk tuk just a sort of three wheeled car, or is it a separate type of vehicle altogether ? Second problem is that folks are inventive - just when you think you have completed your list, someone invents the Segway. I think SWIFT tried to create a standard international list of corporate actions and came up with a list of seventy or eighty types, but I am sure that is not exhaustive. Gandalf61 (talk) 08:55, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if the OP is a francophone? In French, action can mean stock share. Rhinoracer (talk) 10:34, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Is it true that...
Arabic numerals were actually invented in India?

Indian ink was actually invented in China?

What country were French fries invented in?

Any more examples of items with names that wrongly claim which country they were from?

--218.186.12.11 (talk) 12:24, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes. See arabic numerals, india ink, and french fries.--Shantavira|feed me 12:51, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Umm.., yes the Arabic numerals were first invented in India. Most of them were first inscribed in the 'Smriti' of the Vedas. According to the theorem of 'Boudhayan', all numerals come from 0-9.This has also been said in the 'Sankhyasutram'.117.201.96.18 (talk) 14:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Others that come to mind include Canadian bacon, the French disease. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:16, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Spanish flu. Rmhermen (talk) 17:20, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * English muffin, German chocolate cake, Russian dressing, French horn, English horn. Edison (talk) 18:50, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm surprised by the number of cat and dog breeds that are actually claimed to be from the regions of their name. I figured they would mostly just pick whatever sounded classiest. Dalmatians, at least, don't seem to be from Dalmatia. Recury (talk) 19:34, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

The most everyday example must be the turkey, which really is named after the country even though it's native to North America. (In French, by the way, they do even worse: their word for turkey is dinde, which means "from India".)

Other examples include Panama hats and Chinese checkers. --Anonymous, 17:50 UTC, July 24, 2008.
 * Guinea pig but not Guinea fowl. Rmhermen (talk) 20:05, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * A reverse example is the country Brazil, which some people believe is named after the brazil nut, which they believe is found only in Brazil. The Brazil nut is indeed native to Brazil, but also to various other South American countries.  Brazil was named after a different tree, the brazilwood, which is native only to Brazil.  The brazilwood tree produces no nuts (that I'm aware of; certainly no edible ones), and it got its name from the deep red hue of its wood, the early Portuguese colonists calling it “pau-brasil”, meaning “ember tree”.  Brazilians don't call Brazil nuts "Brazil nuts", or use any words that look or sound like "Brazil".  (Fascinating irrelevant fact of the day:  Brazil nuts contain 1000 times more radium than any other food.)  --  JackofOz (talk) 23:33, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Crushed Brazil nuts are sometimes found on Danish pastries. --  JackofOz (talk) 04:05, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Few "bohemians" would come from Bohemia; Chinese whispers are made up by anyone; god Jack is that right about radium? There's a tv ad currently in Oz about your subject, Cardigan is not about cardigans, etc, but Bega (a cheese brand and a town) is about cheese... Julia Rossi (talk) 10:02, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, recognition at last - god Jack. :) Despite My latterly-acknowledged omniscience, I cannot Personally attest to the bit about radium.  But I read about it in Wikipedia, and that is obviously always 100% correct.  :)  Btw, Cardigan may not be about cardigans, but the cardigan was named after Lord Cardigan.  Eponyms tend to work only in one direction, but there's still a connection.  --  JackofOz (talk) 00:30, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

The numerials that are currently used in many Arabic speaking countries most likely didn't originate in India but they call them Indian numerals. -LambaJan (talk) 15:28, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Another example: Chinese water torture was never used in China.  --Bowlhover (talk) 18:25, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * ...and French Letters?--Artjo (talk) 06:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Canary Islands Avnas Ishtaroth drop me a line  09:28, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Attila the Hun
Is it true that Attila got a sword named 'the Sword of Mars' before assailing the Romans commanded by Flavius Aetius? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.201.97.83 (talk) 12:44, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * See Sword of Attila - annoyingly this is not linked to from Attila the Hun - perhaps a historian would know how to fix this??87.102.86.73 (talk) 18:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Improved the short aticle and made the connection.--Wetman (talk) 20:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Very happy to see that, thank you.87.102.86.73 (talk) 21:26, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

why is sir gawain not a prince?
just wondering.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.54.107.154 (talk) 13:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The usual methods of becoming a prince are being born to a king and/or queen or (in some countries) marrying a princess. Did he do either of these ? StuRat (talk) 13:48, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Cecil Grandoff (talk) 14:39, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Gawain was the son of King Lot and nephew of King Arthur so it is a good question. Perhaps he is called Sir as all the other knights are - just as the round table was created to keep all the knights equal. Rmhermen (talk) 16:41, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In fact, most Knights of the Round Table are sons of kings: Percival, Sagramore, Prince Claudin, Maleagant, Aglovale, Agravain, Ywain, Cligès, Erec, Gaheris, Hector de Maris, Lamorak, Sir Lionel, Ywain the Bastard, Tristan, Sir Tor, Safir, Mordred, even Lancelot. Rmhermen (talk) 16:53, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It might be relevant that (according to the OED) the styling of the sons of the sovereign as 'princes' only dates back to the 17th century. Algebraist 18:13, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * However, the OED also states prince as in "any male of a royal family other than a reigning kin" has been used since at least the 14th century. Omahapubliclibrary (talk) 17:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * King Arthur says he was in the 6th century, though, so that's still a big gap, the term could well have not been in use. I'm not sure how things worked in those days, perhaps being a knight was more prestigious than being a non-eldest son of a King? (Were any of the knights mentioned eldest sons?) --Tango (talk) 22:08, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * True, plus many of the popular accounts started around the 12th century (which is partly why Arthurian tales have a medieval setting). This would pre-date the 14th century definition bringing us to the older definitions of a prince.  A prince in its earliest form was a leader.  Thus to call Gawain Prince would be to give him the same rank as Arthur.  Omahapubliclibrary (talk) 01:23, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Dukes of Norfolk and Howard Family
I have been reading on the site for some hours and frankly I'm in a muddle. Would someone at your desk more astute than myself explain the connection between The Dukes of Norfolk (contemporary times) and The Howard family of Castle Howard?

Cecil —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cecil Grandoff (talk • contribs) 14:35, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * According to our articles, Castle Howard is the home of the Earls of Carlisle, who descend from William Howard, third son of Thomas Howard, 4th Duke of Norfolk. Of course, the modern Dukes of Norfolk descend from Thomas's first son, Saint Philip Howard, 20th Earl of Arundel. Algebraist 14:52, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Who is Conrad H. Roth?
Could someone with more advanced Google-fu than I unearth the credentials of a one Conrad H. Roth? His scholarship at Varieties of Unreligious Experience is most excellent, and I would love to use it to source humanities articles, but his scholarly affiliations need to be established to meet WP:SPS. Skomorokh 15:32, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * If google fails, you could just ask him. Algebraist 15:39, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * True, but a temperament as mischievous and arcane as his could easily deceive, and I've had luck with employing the skills of search engine experts before. Also, it's rather impertinent to ask someone whose identity is intentionally cloaked who they are really. Thanks for the suggestion, Skomorokh  15:43, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Why would anyone want to "source" humanities articles at Wikipedia from a "mischievous" blogger anyway?--Wetman (talk) 19:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Extremely helpful, thanks for contributing. Skomorokh  19:17, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Google scholar picks up no trace of a Conrad Roth (there is one, but his citations are all in the 1920s and 1930s). He sounds like an interesting guy, but I don't know that he has any publications. Steewi (talk) 01:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * How do we even know Conrad H. Roth is his real name (or that he's really Conrad)? If he's michievous as you claim, he could easily not be (if he's even a he). Nil Einne (talk) 18:17, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Given the obvious level of education and apparent absence of institutional links to the name "Conrad H. Roth", it's probably not his real name. I was hoping someone with greater sleuthing skills that I could uncover it, you see. Appreciate the response, Skomorokh  18:52, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Photograph copyright
Is it an infringement of copyright to use a photograph as the basis for a creative interpretation using another medium such as watercolor paint? Epsomdown (talk) 17:59, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Have a look at Derivative work. It depends which country you are in. Fribbler (talk) 18:10, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * All my teachers in art classes have insisted we use our own photographs if we need a picture as a basis for what we are going to label "original art". Even if there is not a copyright issue, there may be an ethical one unless you give full credit to the source of your inspiration. If your interpretation of the photo is far enough distant from the original that one could not be recognized from the other, someone would have a difficult time in proving infringement. ៛ Bielle (talk) 18:28, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Jeff Koons fell afoul of copyright infringement (seeRogers_v._Koons) with his String of Puppies sculpture based on another's photo, so I'd be careful. Rhinoracer (talk) 12:07, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Can one get a Professor Degree in USA just for his publications in Humanities?
Without serving as a tenured staff member in any university or college? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.139.226.37 (talk) 18:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * While the meaning of professor varies, it is definitely a job description. There's no such thing as a 'professor degree'. Algebraist 18:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * If you mean "can one earn a PhD only by publications" then the answer is yes. A PhD requires a course of study and a thesis which may be published. Rmhermen (talk) 18:15, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It is fairly unlikely that any serious university will issue a true Ph.D. (and not an honorary doctorate) to someone based purely on their publications, which I understand to mean here that they did not complete coursework, oral examinations, working with an advisor, etc. It's probably not impossible, but it's not very likely. --140.247.241.140 (talk) 18:20, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * My question was dealing with granting a professor title to somebody that does have a PhD, without hiring him/her as a tenured staff member. 128.139.226.37 (talk) 20:29, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In which case the answer is yes, there are many professors (in the US say) who do not have tenure. Algebraist 20:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess you mean to people who work as lecturers or instructors that are called "professors" in colloquial language only, although they didn't grant the title formally (as described in professor). But is it possible that somebody will have that title formally without teaching, because of his publications? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.139.226.37 (talk) 21:10, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Assistant professors and associate professors are non-tenured professors in the U.S. Lecturers and instructors are a different class (but are usually addressed as professor anyway) We have a whole article on professors in the U.S. linked from the professor article. Rmhermen (talk) 14:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Associate Professors are tenured in most systems. Assistant Professors are not, but are "tenure-track", in contrast to lecturers.  -- Coneslayer (talk) 14:20, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's unlikely but it's possible. Mike Davis, for example, was denied his PhD from UCLA, but turned his thesis into a very fine book, which basically won him a MacArthur "Genius" grant (talk about a f*** you to your former professors), and now he's a professor at UC Irvine. Again, it's a pretty anomalous situation—I doubt it happens often. But who universities hire as professors is at the discretion of the faculty and deans. I am sure some politicians end up getting jobs in this way after they retire from public office—at schools of government and etc.—whether they have PhDs or not. You'd have to have something of a "superstar" status, though. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 03:09, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

There's probably some law, 140.247.241.140, that requires the BBC news site to have had in the last week or so an example of the very thing you identify as not likely. Not that I disagree with you, more, I guess, that I want to support your "not impossible" observation: Veteran, 91, receives railway PhD

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cambridgeshire/7510565.stm

Four Horsemen
Does anyone know who it was who decided to call Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Daniel Dennett the Four Horsemen? I know it is the title of a DVD, but who coined the term for these four atheists? Thanks Kristamaranatha (talk) 19:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Google is your friend and if you try "Four Horsemen atheist coined" in Google's searchfield you will find the answer. According to this site: http://ichthyes.wordpress.com/four-horsemen/ it was someone named DJ Grothe an "associate editor of Free Inquiry magazine, and a program director of Center for Inquiry". The site also tells that the original name was: "the four horsemen of the counter-apocalypse". Flamarande (talk) 21:53, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * That sort of refers to it in a roundabout way, but the obvious derivation was from the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. --  JackofOz (talk) 22:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I've found it ironic that while these men claim that religion is the root of all evil they would take on an apocalyptic name that itself represents death and destruction. Kristamaranatha (talk) 06:14, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * They "took on" nothing of the sort, and may have been largely unaware of the journalistic nonce phrase at Free Inquiry magazine, a "hook" for an article. --Wetman (talk) 06:19, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It's hard to believe they would be "largely unaware" of the term, especially because Richard Dawkins himself advertises the DVD discussion between the four of them, called The Four Horsemen, on his website. Kristamaranatha (talk) 01:43, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You haven't perhaps considered that the irony is deliberate. Also within the video itself all four state that they have no problems with appreciating the art and culture of the religiously inclined, any more than they would with drug-inspired artworks (my examples Samuel Taylor Coleridge, or The Beatles). Jooler (talk) 08:41, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Persian/Iranian Writing System throughout history?
1. Why did Persians abandon the Old Persian cuneiform? and 2. How was the Aramaic script able to influence all later forms for Persian writing systems, including Arabic, and why was it chosen to be used if Aramaic/Semitic nations did not conquer the Persian territories, but the other way around? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kharshayarta-shah Amritatvi (talk • contribs) 19:46, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * For one, the Achaemenid Empire began and ended at the same time Old Persian cuneiform did, so possibly, the script was only used for that empire.
 * For two (a), you might want to see Aramaic alphabet for more.
 * For two (b), Darius made Aramaic the official language of Persia in 500 BC. See Aramaic language for more.
 * I hope this helps!  Spencer T♦C 00:46, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Persia was conquered by the Arabs, so that explains the spread of the Arabic alphabet. Earlier, Aramaic was used because it was the most established literary language, and sort of an international spoken language, like Latin used to be and English is now. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)