Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 May 9

= May 9 =

data on international or global food prices going back 50 years or so
I'm looking for a spreadsheet or table of an index or indicator of global food prices (either international trade or local prices globally). I'm interested in the last 50 years, but can't find the raw data anywhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.189.98.44 (talk) 00:39, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That's part of the Consumer price index This link may have what you need.--71.236.23.111 (talk) 09:41, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Killing Theives
In Michigan, can you shoot someone if they break into your house? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.119.61.7 (talk) 01:14, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * According to the Michigan Legislature, and more specifically, House Bill 1542, that appears to be the case, provided that you have "reasonable fear of imminent peril or great bodily harm". There are apparently some exceptions to this, such as if the person breaking in happens to be the house's owner or resident or a police officer. If you feel that this is something that applies to you in any way, I'd suggest you check with somebody knows Michigan criminal law, as not only is the reference desk the wrong place to ask for actual legal advice, it's entirely possible that there are other laws that also impact on this in one way or another that some guy on the internet -- me, that is -- is unaware of. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 02:50, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't know about Michigan, but in some areas you can register your property with the police. You then put a sign up that says "posted property".  That's sort of an exaggerated form of "No trespassing".  If then someone climbs your fence and you shoot them or they drown in your pool you're not liable.  But you really should check with a lawyer for details. --71.236.23.111 (talk) 09:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You can shoot at any people anywhere if you have any loaded and working long range weapon, but you might get arrested/shot back at for it.HS7 (talk) 20:19, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I remember one time there was a case, where a guy in the UP rigged his house with a booby-trap so a shotgun would fire when the door was opened. Someone broke into his house, the trap went off, and shot him. The burglar's family sued for millions, and the guy who trapped his house got pwnzed. Z i g g y   S a w  d u s t  01:22, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Booby trapping a house is very different than standing there and shooting a guy. I sorry I don't have a reference right now but I'm pretty sure that deadly booby traps are illegal in all of the USA. And for good reason.  It does not take very much imagination at all to come up with a reasonable scenario where innocent people would fall into them. (Firefighters, police officers, paramedics, next of kin after the trapper dies, or even some passing motorist in life-or-death need of a telephone.) In any case, booby traps involve killing someone who is not threatening your life at that moment, the courts frown on that. APL (talk) 13:44, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That's why they came up with that "posted property " stuff. Swimming pools can be a "booby trap", so can the hole of the tree stump you removed.  So I'm not so sure we have any unambiguous laws prohibiting booby traps on your own property.  Particularly if you'd post a sign warning people entering your property.  Think vicious dog instead of booby trap.  Both intended to cause bodily harm to trespassers.  But the whole issue is definitely not federal level, or even state level legislation.  My guess would be county ordinances.  You also have to distinguish between criminal indictment and a civil suit for damages.  If I can substantiate a claim that my neighbors utterly legal actions (e.g. digging a well on his property) cause me bodily or financial damage (e.g. my house collapsing) then I can sue for damages. Lisa4edit (talk) 21:23, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Socrates and Buddhism or Taoism
I know there are some similarities from Socrates to Buddhism such as the Phaedrus and his don't know mentality is similar to Taoism. Overall, how similar, do philosophers consider Socrates and Buddhism kindrid? What other areas do they have similarities or not? Thanks--208.102.189.190 (talk) 03:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello?--208.102.189.190 (talk) 21:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

JC-1 H2 Literature set texts
I asked this question a few months ago, but I transferred to a different junior college, so I am studying different texts.

I will still take Othello. Last time, a few of you said it was like Macbeth, which I studied in secondary school.

My other four texts are:

The Handmaid's Tale Great Expectations Brave New World Edgar Allan Poe

I started reading the first two already. They are difficult to understand because there is a lot of complex description, so it is difficult to follow the plot and events.

Any advice for studying these texts?

--166.121.36.232 (talk) 08:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * A good start can be had at The Handmaid's Tale, Great Expectations, Brave New World and Edgar Allan Poe. These (well, the first three) outline the plots and characters, so you can get them sorted in your head before you read; refer back whenever you get confused.  The above articles also contain brief thematic discussions, and critical comment (some better than others), which can get you thinking about the issues (but you'll need to go deeper).  Start with one book rather than reading them all at once, so you don't get them mixed up.  Write down notes as you read: queries and things to look up later, first impressions, what it reminds you of, phrases and themes you've read elsewhere in the book.  It can often be good to buy a cheap copy (from a second hand shop, for example) and make notes on the actual pages, underline significant passages and so forth.  Brings back memories!  I have a rather old, dog-eared, page turned, note-strewn Handmaid's Tale somewhere... Gwinva (talk) 11:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I teach writing and always say to my students dont take reading too seriously: because you will kill the book or the book will kill you. Instead, read the book quickly once and dont worry about taking notes or what you should be thinking. Just skim on through and try and enjoy it. Reading novels is after all supposed to be both intellectually stimulating and a pleasure, but we in academia do try and make it useful work for us and unfortunately work too for our students! Then think about what you think. Then read what others think of the book. Then read it again more slowly, and think about what you think and what others think. Then think about those conflicting thoughts, and read a bit more about what others think of the book, then write an essay thats about all those conflicting thoughts. And I know I have  repeated the word think a lot, but thats what we have to do in academia, hopefully though we won't kill the simple enjoyment of reading. By the way, I love The Handmaid's Tale and Brave New World, its definitely worth reseaching dystopia. Mhicaoidh (talk) 09:14, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Famous Virginians
What is a Famous Virginian with a last name that startes with Y? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.10.65.190 (talk) 10:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * See Category:People from Virginia and select Y. --—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk  -  11:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * More directly, this link. Spencer  T♦C 13:58, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Mosley's Mentality
Is there a key to understanding the personality and the politics of Oswald Mosley? What I would like to know if there was some theme to his career, related perhaps to a personal ideology, or ambition, or overall attitude, which explains why he changed party so many times? How could a one time Tory and then a Socialist end up as a Fascist? What was it in his that allowed him in the end, a man of his background and education, to associate with a collection of violent thugs, both before the war and after? Thanks for your help.217.43.14.177 (talk) 11:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Clio the Muse reminded us not long ago of Stanley Baldwin's biting remark in 1929, "Tom Mosley is a cad and a wrong 'un and they will find it out." (By 'they', he meant the Labour Party.) For P. G. Wodehouse's more charitable view of Mosley, see Roderick Spode. Rightly or wrongly, I've always seen more Spode than cad in Mosley. So far as he was a racist, that was how he (and thousands like him) were brought up. He was a prima donna with a towering ego, but so was Churchill. Mosley believed passionately in his own vision and leadership and in his power to do good. Even after the War had effectively discredited him, he was puzzled that his country didn't want him in public life. Perhaps the key to him is egotism. In the twentieth century, he was a fish out of water. He played for one team after another because he just wasn't a team player but had no hope of getting to the top without a team. Again, an echo of Churchill. Xn4  19:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Wittgenstein and Schopenhauer
How exactly did the work of Arthur Schopenhauer influence Wittgenstein? Jet Eldridge (talk) 12:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * No? Jet Eldridge (talk) 10:16, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I intended to leave this for Clio, but just for now she has sailed into the West. Wittgenstein read Schopenhauer's The World as Will and Representation at the age of sixteen. Schopenhauer seems to be the source of his insights into ethics, aesthetics, the will, and the metaphysical self, and he later told Georg Henrik von Wright that his earliest philosophy was a Schopenhauerian epistemological idealism. While writing his Notebooks and his Tractatus, Wittgenstein is thought to have re-read much of Schopenhauer, and A. Phillips Griffiths notes that "...some of the remarks there [in the Notebooks], some of which are repeated in the Tractatus, are so exactly Schopenhauerian as to appear culled from the text." For instance, the ladder image of the Tractatus is Schopenhauer's. Xn4  13:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, of general relevance, is that Wittgenstein didn't think of Schopenhauer as a particularly "deep" philosopher, claiming that, unlike Kant, he could "see the bottom of him." This is from the appendix to the other translation of Die Welte als Wille und Vorstellung, entitled The World as Will and Idea, which I don't have in front of me, but I think my memory serves me just this once. 203.221.126.227 (talk) 06:07, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Becoming a jew: the easy way
A jew is someone who has a jewish mother. As I was born my mother was not jew, but what would happen if she converts to Judaism? Will I be automatically be jew (not convert) or will I still be what I am now? 217.168.1.109 (talk) 12:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have no authorized answer to your question, but the article on conversion to Judaism led me to "What is the status of a child when the mother converts to Judaism during pregnancy?". The discussion there seems to imply that your mother's religious affiliation is only relevant from conception to birth. Once you're born, you are your own person, and your mother's postpartum conversion does not make you Jewish, unless you convert as well. The article on matrilinearity is interesting as well, and mentions different views on the stringency of matrilinearity in modern Judaism. ---Sluzzelin talk  14:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The phrasing of your initial question is problematic; consider that a Jew is someone born to a Jewish mother (not "who has..."; the Judaic status of a child adopted into a Jewish family is a separate issue with its own protocols). The status is relevant under Jewish law observed by the Orthodox stream of Judaism and in the State of Israel. If you're interested in other forms of Judaism (e.g. Reconstructionist, Reform, and Conservative), try the "Contact Us" feature of their websites (External links on those pages). -- Deborahjay (talk) 16:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I haven't read it lately, but Who is a Jew? might clarify it. --  JackofOz (talk) 01:25, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Popish Plot
Has anyone read your page on the Popish Plot. It's REALLY TERRIBLE, full of errors and POV judgements. Please can some expert help sort out this mess? I thought I would find someone here, rather than leaving a message on the talk page. The reputation of Wikipedia is at stake. You must help!!!Pere Plex (talk) 13:05, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be helpful if you could detail some of these errors, POV judgements, &c, on the talk page. I've read the article, and it does not stand out as especially poor; on the contrary. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid I agree with Pere Plex, there are bad errors and POV judgements. For instance, it's too simplistic to say that Oates was "a low level clergymen" [sic]. He was a rogue, but we don't need to hurl unfocussed abuse at his professional status. The nonsense begins with the claim that Charles II was married to "the Queen of Portugal"... perhaps someone will get on and correct that, so don't be surprised if you read this and it's gone, but there's a lot more that's wrong. Xn4 14:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I fixed the Queen of Portugal, but ...eewwww.... we really need to start over. - Nunh-huh 22:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll begin a rewrite tomorrow, here. Thanks, PeterSymonds | talk  22:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I've just remembered something I said here on the desk last August... Xn4 03:57, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * For anyone who has the inclination to work on the Popish Plot article, here are links to two good online resources. Xn4 21:44, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The second parliament of Charles II Eighteenth session at british-history.ac.uk
 * Oates's Plot at the Catholic Encyclopedia online

Overview of 1700s-era naval uniforms?
Hi all,

I'm trying to help an artist friend do some research on what things looked like on the high seas in the 1700s, with a particular focus on British, French and Spanish naval uniforms. I've looked at the Wiki articles on the navies of these respective countries, but they're (obvious) overviews of hundreds of years of history and can't really get into uniform specifics for a particular era. Any ideas on how I wouldt go about finding images of this era of naval combat? Thanks!
 * Try the Museum of Costume. The National Maritime Museum has excellent online image resources, e.g. . And you could contact the archivist of each country's navy. BrainyBabe (talk) 16:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * In the Royal Navy, there was no uniform for officers until 1748, when new regulations created the 'best uniform' or 'dress uniform' (embroidered blue coat with white facings over white breeches and white stockings) and an 'undress uniform', commonly called the 'working rig', which was similar but plainer. See here. Uniform regulations for the Royal Navy's seamen didn't come until 1857, but before that a ship's crew did look much the same, as the men were generally supplied with the materials to make their own clothes. Xn4  16:28, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * When I was young I had a copy of what was called the "junior edition" of the Britannica; it had illustrated uniforms for at least the British and French navies through the modern era. You might want to look around in your local public library for an old edition of that. -- Relata refero (disp.) 18:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Some Spanish naval infantry uniforms, and you may find the Anne S.K. Brown Military collection helpful, too. SaundersW (talk) 18:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Osprey Publishing are an excellent source for matters military; their books contain detailed illustrations of uniforms, weapons, technology and so forth from all eras and disciplines. Check out their catalogue at   Some are available as limited preview on google books: see [Royal Navy 1790-1970, for example.   [[User:Gwinva|Gwinva]] (talk) 20:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

French Revolution
Why do the French celebrate the revolution of 1789? The whole thing seems quite ugly, something to be ashamed of, gruseome and bloody, an episode that marks the beginning of all modern tyranny, from facism to communism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.162.194 (talk) 15:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd answer this now, but I'd prefer to wait till Clio agrees with you and then swoop in and explain why bliss it was in that dawn to be alive. -- Relata refero (disp.) 18:14, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Good strategy, Relata refero. I'll hold off as well.  Marco polo (talk) 18:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * To be fair to the French (not always an easy thing, I know), what the Fête nationale actually celebrates on 14 July is (informally) the Storming of the Bastille on 14 July 1789 and (formally) the Fête de la Fédération of 14 July 1790, which marked the creation of a constitutional monarchy in France. At the time, that was widely seen as a satisfactory outcome to the Revolution, and the King took part in it (the 1790 celebration, that is). I've been in different parts of France on 14 July (that's to say, in conservative and more radical parts) and I've never seen a public celebration of the Terror, although I know there are some hotheads who still defend it. It has to be remembered that the French Revolution is one of the sources of Animal Farm - the Revolution's beginnings were idealistic, and those ideals are still the foundation of the modern French state.  Xn4  20:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * For the same reasons the Americans celebrate their revolution? Matt Deres (talk) 20:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The American Revolution (which wasn't really a revolution) was about independence from colonial rule. The French Revolution was about freedom from the rule of an absolute monarch and about democratic ideals, even if later excesses were not in keeping with those ideals.  It is the ideals (liberty, equality, fraternity) that are celebrated on July 14.  Marco polo (talk) 00:26, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Note that if refrained from celebrating anything that has historically inspired people to be wicked, it is hard to say what we could celebrate. Christianity and Darwinism would have to go out the window one and the same as well. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * If any of you are still waiting for Clio to swoop, she has left for more exciting locations User:Clio the Muse. ៛ Bielle (talk) 01:32, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Out there perhaps is the Great Game, but in here can also be a few thrills and spills. Clio quondam, Clioque futurus. Xn4  02:06, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Offer excludes Northern Ireland
I'm not British but I've lived in the UK and I have listened to a lot to British commercial radio. Many radio advertisements ends with the fine print statement, "Terms and conditions apply. Offer excludes Northern Ireland". I have never heard ads that excludes Scotland or Wales. Are there any reasons for this treatment of NI? Thuresson (talk) 17:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure, but it may be a matter of the added shipping cost. Or, if the offer is dependent on some kind of contact with a local retail outlet or distribution infrastructure, many firms may not have extended their network to Northern Ireland for similar reasons.  For example, you can set up a central warehouse and a small fleet of lorries in Leeds to service England, Scotland, and Wales, but sending a lorry on a ferry to Northern Ireland and back would add considerable expense, not least for the driver's time.  On the other hand, Northern Ireland's population (1.5 million) and income might not support a warehouse and lorry fleet there, whereas the 58 million or so potential customers on the island of Great Britain might well support such a distribution infrastructure.  Marco polo (talk) 18:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a shipping and distribution issue, much like US companies that exclude Alaska and Hawaii from some offers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.100.32.211 (talk) 22:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Are the adverts for insurance? I've noticed most TV adverts for car insurance in England have "excludes Northern Ireland" on the bottom of the screen in the closing seconds - presumably because car insurance rules are different for NI but the advert can still be seen there (either that or the insurance companies have the mistaken belief that "The Troubles" are still a part of everyday Northern Irish life).  I've also seen some financial services adverts (usually for IVAs) say "not available in Scotland".  Astronaut (talk) 09:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It may also be an issue of differing standards or regulations which the company doesn't want the cost or hassle of having to deal with. We get the same thing here in Canada, where the offers often exclude Quebec, which has more stringent language regulations for 'most everything. Different taxation rates could also be a factor. Matt Deres (talk) 13:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Tax rates are the same in all parts of the UK, but thanks to the 49 years with a separate legislature from 1922, Northern Irish law can be quite different from the law in England & Wales, and Scotland - in Trade Union law, for example, the laws on opting in or out of a union's Political Fund if it has one are diametrically opposite from the laws which apply in the rest of the UK. It is, however, mainly a matter of distribution costs - it's also not unusual to see adverts excluding the Scottish Highlands and Islands (Hebrides, Orkney, and Shetland). -- Arwel (talk) 20:39, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Best source for Ibn Battuta's travels
I pulled these references from Ibn Battuta's main article. Which one of these has the best description of his travels?


 * Reissued and revised in 2004 ISBN 0-520-24385-4
 * H. A. R. Gibb, translator (1929), Ibn Battuta Travels in Asia and Africa (selections) London: Routledge. Reissued several times.
 * H. A. R. Gibb (1958, 1962, 1971, 1994, 2000), Ibn Battuta Travels in Asia and Africa (full text) London: Hakluyt Society. 4 vols. + index.
 * Ibn Battota's Safari : Tuhfat Al-Nothaar Fe Gharaa'ib Al-Amsaar, ISBN 9-953341-80-X
 * Ibn Battota's Safari : Tuhfat Al-Nothaar Fe Gharaa'ib Al-Amsaar, ISBN 9-953341-80-X


 * OR if anyone knows of other works better than these.

The reason I ask is because I've owned multiple books on a certain subject and one always stands out among the rest as the best. This is more of a personal preference thing, but I'm sure there are specialists out there that can make a well-informed choice. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 17:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, since the fourth item on your list (Gibb's multivolume translation) contains an English rendering, with commentary, of the entire text of Ibn Battuta's work, it would seem to be the fullest possible account of the travels. I own a set, and it's pretty fascinating. Deor (talk) 22:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * not an advise but since you have lots of info regarding Ibn Battuta you might be interested in sourcing Urduja. Thanks! -- Lenticel ( talk ) 01:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC)