Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 October 5

= October 5 =

Today's bailout verses the 1929 depression
What are the differences between the great depression of 1929 compared to today's economic bailout —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.188.34.226 (talk) 14:16, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * For starters, the great depression was a recession and today's bailout is a bailout. To answer your question, this mentions a few differences and similarities. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 15:01, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * For starters, the Great Depression was no recession. The term wasn't popularly used to describe a brief economic contraction until the 1950s (although, many have redefined past depressions as recessions since then). As for the original question, the Great Depression was a stock market crash followed by a series of bad policy choices that coincided with poor weather (agriculture). From 1929 to 1933, the nominal size of the US economy declined from $103.6 billion to $56.4 billion, a drop of 45.6%. Consumer prices fell by 27.2%. In real terms, the economy dropped nearly 7.5% a year for four straight years. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * A check at google news archive shows that "recession" has been used much longer than since the 50s. What I had heard was that "depression" was a euphemism for the earlier "recession", but this seems to be just a silly story, "depression" seems more popular than "recession" long ago.John Z (talk) 22:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I thought depression was euphemism for panic. —Tamfang (talk) 15:45, 8 October 2008 (UTC)


 * A severe recession is still a recession. I haven't come across a definition of recession which exclusively limited it to "brief contractions". Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:40, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * By "brief" I mean contained in a year or so, rather than several years. My reference to recession being a 1950s term may not be correct, but I do recall hearing that the term was coined because government economists didn't want to suggest that the late 1940s or 1950s recessions were anything like the 1930s. DOR (HK) (talk) 01:19, 8 October 2008 (UTC)


 * If you want a similar event in U.S. history, I would point to the New York City bailout. I don't remember the year and, because it is impossible to find anything about historical bailouts on Google right now, I can't search for it.  Basically, it was nearly the same thing.  Congress came up with the idea of sending a lot of taxpayer money to New York City to help cover losses made by large businesses - primarily based on rather stupid business decisions. --  k a i n a w &trade; 21:33, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * That would be the this 1975 bailout. Incredibly, we don't have an article on it (any takers?) but it is covered briefly in the Presidency of Gerald Ford and History of New York City (1946–1977) articles.  Ford at first refused to loan the city the billions it wanted, and the New York Daily News ran a headline:  "Ford to City:  Drop Dead." Antandrus  (talk) 23:44, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

English Consumer Law
If an item has been purchased from a high street shop and it is faulty, is the consumer legally entitled to a refund? I have been reading many different pages on this and some say you are and others say they are only obliged to fix / replace. If the law states that a refund is obliged, can someone point me to the legislation that specifies this. Thanks Kirk UK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.79.175 (talk) 14:35, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * This is dealt with in our Sale of Goods Act 1979 article. "Within six months, beginning at the time at which the goods were delivered, the buyer can require the seller to repair the goods, reduce the price, or rescind (revesting property and requiring the return of any payment) the contract where the buyer successfully claims that the goods were not in accordance with the contract at the time of delivery." In other words, the consumer can make the choice. The supplier has to comply or counterclaim that there is no problem with the goods. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:33, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * And the specific legislation was amendments made to the Sale of Goods Act 1979 in the The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:43, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

'.....the goods were not in accordance with the contract at the time of delivery.' does this mean that if the goods worked on the day of delivery but then 'died' after two days (it was a hard drive) is it arguable that they were not faulty at the time of delivery? I've been going through the articles mentioned above, I'm no lawyer and getting more confused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.79.175 (talk) 17:41, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The full term is six years (six months is just a change in the balance of evidence). BERR has a handy page on this regard here, which says Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale). and later the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract. For a transaction involving a business, the act notes that "durability" is one of the implied qualities (14(2b)e). Whether 2 days is an acceptable time for a "durable" hard drive to work, and the extent to which that failure indicates the product was "inherently faulty at time of sale" is a specific matter that we can't give you advice about. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * While this does not construe legal advice, I find it hard to believe in NZ that any electronic item would be considered durable if it only lasted 2 days Consumer Guarantees Act (the NZ law that applies to cases like these). And generally speaking, if an item dies/breaks, it would be considered the fault of the manufacturer/supplier/retailer unless you did something to cause the fault (for example, with a hard drive if you subjected it to forces beyond the allowed ranges). Most obviously, if the item shows any sign of external damage that is likely to cause or resulted from something that could be expected to damage the device it probably wouldn't be considered the manfacturers fault. However ultimately these claims would have to be tested in court or other appropriate forum. Whether this is the same in the UK, I don't know if you have a specific case in mind, you should see someone who can advise you Nil Einne (talk) 16:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

London railway station logos
A lot of London railway stations now have circular stylised logos, in various colours, like the X one shown in the image. Does anyone know where I can find a list of these logos, perhaps download them, or find out about their design? Thanks. ╟─ Treasury § Tag ► contribs ─╢ 18:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Each of the 18 stations run by Network Rail has a logo like this. I would have expected Network Rail's website to have them, but I haven't been able to find any! -- Arwel Parry (talk) 22:11, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

is there any user with astrology and magick knowledge?
hi guys, is there anyone who knows about astrology, astral charts, the karma that you need to acomplish in life acording to your chart, ..crowley magick...and all that stuff? but probably a modern aproach? basically i'd like to discuss and find out what i need to acomplish and ger over in this life to be at peace with myself and others.

if you are versed in the subject and u think you can help me and you'd like to share views on the subject, i'll talk to you in your user page and we can exchange emails and stuff. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.91.11.185 (talk) 19:44, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a social networking site, and User talk pages should not contain extensive personal opinions on matters unrelated to Wikipedia. Moreover, the reference desk is not a place for people to express opinions about your personal life and beliefs.  You will probably find what you are looking for in a "magick" forum. In the meantime, have a look at magick and astrology, which might provide some of the information you seek. Gwinva (talk) 20:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Try also karma, Aleister Crowley, Jyotiṣa, divination, horoscope, astrological aspect, horoscopic astrology, & natal astrology. Strawless (talk) 15:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Why isn't this little girl....
wearing Hijab?. And why is she with other men (boys) if they're not related to her?. It's in Iraq and Muslims laws forbids women to be with other men if they are not realated to her., it's on Commons. Thanks all. --Maru-Spanish (talk) 19:59, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Iraq is a secular society.  Little Red Riding Hood  talk  20:27, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Moreover, not all people in Iraq are Muslims, and not all Muslims in Iraq are orthodox. Gwinva (talk) 20:35, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Did I read somewhere that girls aren't always expected to wear hijab until 'round about puberty? From their body language, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this is a little sister to at least some of those boys... -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 20:36, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hijab is not compulsory until the age of puberty, which is 9 for girls. And then, it depends much on how tough and strict their parents and their community are. --Omidinist (talk) 05:15, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * And how could you know that they are not related?Mr.K. (talk) 11:20, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You might enjoy watching this excerpt of a wonderful segment from the Wholphin (DVD) series about a 13 year-old Yemeni girl who refuses to wear hijab. --Sean 14:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * While not addressing Iraq, you might want to read Sex segregation and Islam Nil Einne (talk)

Election of 1824 electoral college
What were some future political problems indicated by the Electoral College voting patterns in the United States presidential election, 1824? Thanks! Reywas92 Talk 20:02, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * As the first paragraph of the article you linked to says, the Democratic-Republican Party split into several different parties.  Little Red Riding Hood  talk  20:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds a bit like homework, so I'm giving you a few leads and hoping you research yourself - not eI was tempted to give several misleading answers but chose not to.
 * Andrew Jackson later said his only regrets were that he hadn't shot Clay or hung Calhoun. You might look into what Henry Clay did and the reaction.
 * Crawford suffered a stroke before the votes were counted. Look at elections and amendments after this. (Yes, he was only 4th here so it didn't matter, but one elction did have the candidate for a major party die before the electors voted.)
 * The Vice President was chosen so quickly - he had the majority of electors - while the Presidential one wasn't. think about how that wcould influence things.Somebody or his brother (talk) 00:11, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

book a rabbi carries
what book does a rabbi always carry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.199.70.242 (talk) 23:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * The Tanakh? Rockpock  e  t  02:15, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I would think that the most likely book that a Rabbi would carry would not be a Tanakh but a thin book containing the afternoon (Minchah) and evening (Arvit) prayers. Simonschaim (talk) 04:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)