Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 April 15

= April 15 =

Sindhi new year
Do Sindhi people have their own new year celebration? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.95.73 (talk) 01:23, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * A little Google searching turns up "Cheti Chand", celebrated on the second day of Chaitra... AnonMoos (talk) 03:19, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Goethe Quotations in "The Edge of Heaven"
One of the main characters in The Edge of Heaven is a literature professor, and at one of his lectures he attributes the following quotations to Goethe: I thought these quotations were interesting, so I tried to track them down to read them in their original context, but I couldn't find their source. Many of Goethe's most important works are available on Project Gutenberg, and I searched many of them which seemed likely candidates, but I couldn't find the quotations. My local library has a large collection of works by and about Goethe, but I keep running into dead ends and can't locate the quotations. I am surprised that this information has been so difficult to find, considering the great success of the film.
 * 1) "Wer wollte schon eine Rose im tiefsten Winter blühen sehen? Alles hat doch seine Zeit: Blätter, Knospen, Blüten... Nur der Thor verlangt nach diesem unzeitgemäßen Rausch."
 * 2) "Ich bin gegen Revolutionen, denn es geht genauso viel bewährtes Altes kaputt wie gutes Neues geschaffen wird."

I would greatly appreciate any help in finding the source of these quotations, either in the original German or in English translation. Thanks. -- Tantalum Telluride 05:20, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * One lead: Found both quotes together (?!) on this page, which looks like a conference paper by a Helge Martens. There is a contact name and address for the conference - you could write and ask for the full paper with the citations/bibliography, or for how to contact Prof. Martens to ask. (The online version cites simply "Friedenthal" which I'm guessing could be Goethe: his life and times by Richard Friedenthal which should be in a lot of libraries.) Best, WikiJedits (talk) 11:39, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

"GC" in a date?
I have a document here, where a date is given as 24/6/1999GC. What could GC stand for in this circumstance? The document is from a Somali civil authority or court of law. E.G. (talk) 07:52, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Gregorian calendar? BrainyBabe (talk) 08:11, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Do we get to make jokes about Somali civil authority? —Tamfang (talk) 17:42, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, we could ask if this is a genuine court document or if E.G. has received a "Nigerian spam" message and is thinking it's real. (Nothing personal, E.G.; I don't know you.)  Those messages often contain very peculiar usages and sometimes there's no guessing what they mean.  --Anonymous, 18:27 UTC, April 15, 2009. 208.76.104.133 18:28, 15 April 2009 


 * It was given by an applicant for a service at the office where I work, to prove the applicant's identity, so it is nowhere near any Nigerian spam. Gregorian calendar seems like a plausible explanation, thanks Brainybabe! E.G. (talk) 06:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Our article Public holidays in Somalia states that the Gregorian calendar is used for official dates whilst the Islamic calendar pertains to religious dates, so BB would seem to be right. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 10:07, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Spring has sprung, the grass has riz
Spring has sprung, the grass has riz (or Spring has sprung, the grass is riz). Yahoo answers suggests that this was originally by Ogden Nash. I can't find a definitive source and date of authorship for this poem. Anyone here know? -- SGBailey (talk) 10:37, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ogden Nash is kind of a quotation sink for all authorless bits of comic doggerel just as Churchill gets all spare political quotes and Wilde gets arch put downs. These are the earliest cites for the opening lines I can find . It was also used by Burma Shave which probably gave it wider currency, but not until 1951 apparently  meltBanana  12:44, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ta -- SGBailey (talk) 14:14, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * "Spring has sprung, the grass is riz, where last year's careless drivers is." -Burma Shave. SDY (talk) 14:50, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * To Confucius and Lao Tzu are ascribed all manner of unfounded quotations, including... “The journey of a thousand miles begins with the Google Maps app.”

How many independent countries are there in the world?
yes, it's homework but I can assure you that I don't know what to do... thousand sources and some say 190, others 195, help? --201.254.88.136 (talk) 19:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Somewhere between 193 and 203. See list of sovereign states for details. 190 is definitely out of date. Algebraist 19:19, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Algebraist, thank you very much. --201.254.88.136 (talk) 20:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

how do the amish make money?
do they even need money? after watching witness earlier these questions were raised, because arent they self contained? my theory was tourism, but they try to distance themselves, dont they? so i t doesn't all add up. 92.23.198.60 (talk) 19:50, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, the Amish like most religions are of a varying spectrum. There are very traditional Amish who are extremely strict.  These are generally the ones that seem to appear on the media.  There are also some that are more open to using things like cars and electricity at a low level.  Materialism is not a major priority for the Amish, so money would also be less important. That being said, they do need money to purchase the things that they can not produce, like land.  Tourism does provide a good deal of income for the Amish groups who are involved with that.  Also, things that the Amish can produce, such as furniture, quilts, and livestock can be sold to provide funds as well.  The Amish do have the appearance of distancing themselves from the rest of society, but that does not mean they can not interact at all.65.121.141.34 (talk) 20:11, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The thing to keep in mind is that the Amish are attempting to live their lives in a manner consistent with a simpler life, not go back to cave-man days. Money has been around for a good long time and they're just fine with using it, though as Mr. 34 says, their religion implicitly doesn't put a huge emphasis on those kinds of materialist things. Matt Deres (talk) 20:27, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * If you think about the "distinctive" Amish who drive the horse buggies then the primary source of income for them is almost always farming. There are plenty of secondary sources as well. Many will repair small motors; many will sell their farm produce direct to anyone who drops by, or at local farmers markets, and also quilts, firewood and similar.
 * For those nearer the mainstream there are plenty of jobs. I know some who run car body shops, and others who run guesthouses or restaurants. DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:48, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Travelling through Amish country last summer, I was struck by the extensive range of Amish handicrafts for sale from converted barns by the sides of major roads. I guess that this is probably a significant source of secondary income. AlexTiefling (talk) 21:00, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * In addition to the sale of farm goods and handicrafts, Amish men are often excellently skilled labourers, and can earn a significant amount of money as builders, carpenters, gardeners, etc. They are known for their reliability and work ethic and are implicitly considered to be honest, so those who want a good job done will often pay above-market price to have the Amish extend their houses, make their kitchen cupboards, seed their lawn, look after their horses, etc.  It is a common perception by Americans who live in "Amish country" that the Amish are actually very well-off financially.  They spend little of what they earn and save the rest, usually for rainy days, dowries, and to assist their (often numerous) children in the future.  They also have significant equity in the amount of land they own, handed down from generation to generation.   Mae din \talk 21:19, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I consistently see advertisements for Amish furniture, which is, I gather, usually higher quality and more expensive then other furniture. I have also heard that recently some of the Amish, while usually sheltered from economic vagaries, are having financial difficulties due to the recent economic downturn (less people buying souvenirs and the like). -- 128.104.112.117 (talk) 21:41, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Think: how did people earn money before the industrial revolution? The answer would usually be farming, simple manufacturing, and pre-industrial service industries. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:23, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The Amish aren't hermits. They are aware of the rest of the world, and freely interact with it.  They just choose to live simply themselves.  Quite frankly, the Amish lifestyle is certainly cheaper.  They grow a lot of their own food, and support themselves otherwise with selling handicrafts and the like.  Imagine if you didn't need to buy TVs and make car payments and pay for electricity and make your own clothes.  It's probably a lot easier to live on a smaller income when you don't have to spend much anyways!  --Jayron32. talk . contribs  02:04, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * There are also Amish-run restaurants. They do use electricity.  I think they justify this because the electricity is for the customers, not for themselves.  I've also seen Amish food in regular grocery stores, like Amish potato salad and Amish baked beans.  In some cases these are Amish-made, in other cases someone just stole their recipe.  (I wonder about the legality of selling something as "Amish" which isn't Amish-made.)  StuRat (talk) 12:44, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Is "Amish" a badge of origin or a trademark? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:14, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe the article you are looking for is Appellation, per the red link... --Jayron32. talk . contribs 01:40, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, sounds like time for a new article. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 03:33, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Wage-earning in colonial Spanish America
Any details on the development of wage-labor within the poor that slowly replaced slavery in the Spanish colonies? How it formed and to what extent?  Grsz 11  20:01, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * From a history of North America class, I vaguely remember a trend starting in sugar cane processing facilities.NByz (talk) 06:06, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Thatcher's Childen
A UK-centric one, this. I have heard of chavs referred to as Thatcher's children. Anyone have a social or economic explanation for this? I have read the Wiktionary definition, but this would seem to apply to slightly more affluent kids of that generation. I am speaking of a lower rung of the social scale. Thanks FreeMorpheme (talk) 20:17, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It would be worth reading Thatcherism. Thatcher's strong policies revived the British economy, but at the cost of massive unemployment and increase in poverty levels - the effects of which are still felt today, and are possibly demonstrated by the chavs.  You can find a good summary by the BBC at the end of the Thatcherism article: To her supporters, she was a revolutionary figure who transformed Britain's stagnant economy, tamed the unions and re-established the country as a world power. Together with US presidents Reagan and Bush, she helped bring about the end of the Cold War. But her 11-year premiership was also marked by social unrest, industrial strife and high unemployment. Her critics claim British society is still feeling the effect of her divisive economic policies and the culture of greed and selfishness they allegedly promoted. So the comment you note about the chavs means something like "these are the type of people created by Thatcher's policies, the inevitable result of generational unemployment and poverty". Gwinva (talk) 20:29, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note also the play Thatcher's Women by Kay Adshead. The eponymous women are thrown out of work in a canning factory in the North West, and go to London to try to make a living as prostitutes. I'm pretty sure that the title was not coined just for this play. --ColinFine (talk) 23:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This is obviously a pejorative phrase - propaganda basically - that would only be used by left-wingers. Unemployment went up under the last Labour government, and it has gone up under the current one. Mowsbury (talk) 18:47, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So what? Left-wingers opposed Blair and considered him the heir to Thatcher. Algebraist 18:51, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Japan and Germany
What do Japan and Germany have in common that made them such economic powerhouses? (apart from being on the floor in 1945) - thanks for info. --AlexSuricata (talk) 21:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)


 * To be succinct: Post-war economic aid.--KageTora (talk) 01:43, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, they have large populations, and the infrastructure and expertise for industrialization was in place after World War II. Being that they were advanced economies before the war, and during the war, it's not hard to see how, with a small push from the outside, their economy could be restarted within a few decades.  It wasn't as though the countries were leveled during the war.  It was just a matter of taking the industry in place, and retooling it for peacetime economy.  Of more interest is the difference of what happened between West Germany and East Germany in the decades following the war. --Jayron32. talk . contribs  01:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * As for Japan, see our article. Korean war boosted the economy. Additionally, because of the Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution, the military budget of Japan was small. So the government could invest in infrastructure. Oda Mari (talk) 07:28, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * One thing they have in common is that they didn't pay off their war bonds (iirc). —Tamfang (talk) 06:49, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Japan started with the kinds of sweatshops that China has, or maybe had especially a few years ago. It built itself up on sweat - and also started as crappy manufacturers, like plastic chinese crap. 94.27.231.11 (talk) 07:52, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Regarding economic aid, it should be noted that Japan was not a participant of the Marshall Plan. According to Japanese post-war economic miracle, Japan's recovery was due to the Korean War and government intervention.  A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 16:23, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Reading the article, to clarify, that's intervention as in economic interventionism. - Jarry1250 (t, c) 19:04, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the main factor was that they were both prohibited from major rearmament spending so, unlike their major economic competitors (UK, U.S.A., Soviet Union, France, etc) their national wealth was invested in manufacturing capacity and used to generate additional capital rather than being spent on non-productive highly expensive projects like atomic bombs and intercontinental ballistic missiles. AllanHainey (talk) 17:20, 17 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Both have excellent education systems (don't know before late 20th century). Both have small militaries and spend less on defence than other first world countries. Japanese save their money freeing up money for investment. Japan invests in factories in China to produce Japanese goods cheaply for export and domestic consumption. Both are hard-working peoples with a work ethic. Germany was scientifically advanced before WWII. Sleigh (talk) 05:07, 18 April 2009 (UTC)


 * To Sleigh. After the war, Japan had no diplomatic relations with People's Republic of China until 1972. See Joint Communiqué of the Government of Japan and the Government of the People's Republic of China. So the Japanese investment in factories in China has nothing to do with the postwar economic recovery. Oda Mari (talk) 05:40, 18 April 2009 (UTC)