Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 August 21

= August 21 =

hair care during WWII
Which brands of shampoo contribute to the war effort during World War II? Did any servicepeople use a specific brand? Did any civilians on the home front use another specific brand?69.203.157.50 (talk) 05:02, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Drene, Halo, Lustre-Creme.--Wetman (talk) 05:56, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The "weekly shampoo" contributed to the "simple, almost waveless coiffures that are becoming a wartime fashion" as of February 19, 1944 in the NY Times. The snippet does not give the brand preferred. A library trip will be required to get the full article. "Kreml" was one advertised brand which kept the "brilliant sheen" for days. In other words, daily shampooing was not happening at home during the war. Without daily shampooing, there was likely less of a need to replace the oils washed out. Halo was apparently a detergent shampoo, hence no "soap film" to dull the hair. Edison (talk) 00:44, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Anselme Lavigne
Who is Canada was Anselme Lavigne? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.154.25.134 (talk) 14:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Dollard-des-Ormeaux, Quebec : "One of its original main axes, Anselme-Lavigne Street in the Westpark neighbourhood, is named for a farmer who sold his land to the Belcourt Construction Company."83.100.250.79 (talk) 14:28, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There is also a park and a school named after him there. He seems to have been the first mayor of Dollard-des-Ormeaux, not just some guy who sold a farm. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:39, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Am I the only one who thought the Lavigne troll was back when I first saw this question? Nil Einne (talk) 21:59, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There's a bridge named after the guy as well? 87.81.230.195 (talk) 08:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Should religion be separated from the Humanities Reference Desk?
To all concerned users of RD/H:

There is presently a discussion on Wikipedia talk:Reference desk regarding the possibility of splitting religion questions away from this reference desk to a Religion Reference Desk. Input from the community of users most affected by / interested in this proposal would be welcome.

Thanks, Lomn 14:33, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Napoleon's burial arrangements
I recall hearing that Napoleon is buried in 7 coffins. Does that mean that he was dismembered with various parts going into separate coffins, or that he is intact and the coffins are like Russian dolls? Googlemeister (talk) 15:05, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe it refers to the bits that were removed at the autopsy? His penis was supposedly removed...here is a Straight Dope article about it. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:37, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * If he was dismembered, I bet they were really small coffins. Like shoebox size. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 15:46, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The article on Napoleon references moving his body at some point, with no hint that they had to move 7 different things. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 15:48, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * This article I found at random in Google suggests the Russian dolls scenario. I know he's under some big stone thing, as I recall seeing a photo of Hitler visiting Napoleon's tomb. Hitler apparently admired Napoleon, and sought to emulate him (such as by invading Russia during the winter).

Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 15:51, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hitler invaded Russia in June, near the first day of summer. Where did you get the idea that he invaded during winter?  --99.237.234.104 (talk) 19:30, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He said Hitler emulated Napoleon; he never said he was smart. Half  Shadow  17:38, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, when nwinter came around he was still invading... Googlemeister (talk) 20:02, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ya, the official tomb is Napoleon's tomb in Les Invalides. It certainly seems he's all there...  TastyCakes (talk) 17:26, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Able was 'e, ere 'e saw Elba. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 23:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * If you believe the story depicted in the execrable movie Monsieur N. (2003), then none of his parts are at Les Invalides, and the body there is that of an officer named Cipriani. The story goes that Napoleon was spirited away to Louisiana, and died there.  In the meantime, he married an Englishwoman, travelled, and even secretly attended his own funeral in Paris.  But this has no historical backing at all; I can't even imagine where the myth could have come from.  See also my question @ Talk:Napoleon I of France/Archive 3.  --  JackofOz (talk) 23:55, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * There's another Hitler parallel: The fable that Hitler didn't actually snuff it, but instead fled Germany and moved to South America along with some of his Nazi pals. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 17:32, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

No survivors of Unit 731?
It is said that no victims (not meaning the victims of plague-bombings) of Unit 731 survived. But several sources on the net cites information about a rebellion within the unit 731 building at Beiyinhe, the predecessor of Ping fan, in c. 1934. This rebellion is cited in Factories of death: Japanese biological warfare, 1932-45 (Sheldon H. Harris) []. The rebellion, led by a man known as Li, was successfull, and several prisoners of the Unit 731 eskaped and joined the partisans. According to this, these victims, at least, survived. Have they never been identified, never given their testemony? At least, this means that they were actually survivors, unless I have misunderstood the story? I have only read about it here, so perhaps some facts are missing. Were they perhaps captured later, and that's why it is said that there were no survivors?--85.226.47.46 (talk) 17:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Historical woman
I am looking for the article on a dead European woman but I cannot remember much. She lived in the 19th or 20th centuries (probably the 20th) and lived a very interesting, wild, libertine life. She is famous for being an author, and lived in Paris at one time. The Wikipedia article has excerpts of some of her letters to various men in it. Sorry, can't narrow it down much :/ Thank you for your help! Mac Davis (talk) 17:31, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds like Alma Mahler-Werfel, except she was a composer. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:04, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You could try Category:19th-century women writers and Category:20th-century women writers to start. &mdash;Akrabbimtalk 18:38, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I assume Cricket Bugs is referring to Alma Mahler-Werfel. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 18:54, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * True. Meanwhile, I thought every 19th century woman in Paris lived a wild, libertine life; so it's hard to narrow it down. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:56, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Colette ? George Sand ? Anais Nin ? There are quite a few persons matching your description. --Xuxl (talk) 20:03, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe Gertrude Stein? Subject of the famous poem,  "There's a wonderful family named Stein. / There's Ep, there's Gert, and there's Ein. / Ep's statues are junk, Gert's poems are bunk / And nobody understands Ein." AnonMoos (talk) 01:07, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * P.S. Probably not whom you had in mind, but Anne_Lister seems to have spent significant time in Paris... AnonMoos (talk) 01:16, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Darn... none of 'em. I looked at every 20th century female author article too. Mac Davis (talk) 14:40, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Djuna Barnes, Natalie Clifford Barney, Romaine Brooks, or Renée Vivien? AlexTiefling (talk) 20:54, 25 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Elinor Glyn? Mata Hari? One of the Mitford family daughters? Barbara Cartland? 78.151.136.177 (talk) 23:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Greek orthodox church
I was wondering, are the people that carry out services called priests in Greek orthodox churches? For example, at a Greek wedding would it be presided over by a priest or is there another name? Would they be called "Father " or something else when referring to them? TastyCakes (talk) 17:36, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The answers can be found at Eastern_Orthodox_Church.83.100.250.79 (talk) 18:00, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks, so they are priests? Would you refer to them as "Priest " or "Father " or what?  TastyCakes (talk) 19:53, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "The other ordained roles are presbyter (Gr. πρεσβύτερος, elder), which became 'prester' and then 'priest' in English, and diakonos (Gr. διάκονος, servant), which became 'deacon' in English (see also subdeacon)."
 * I'm not sure - it might depend on whether you got a 'presbyter', or 'diakonos', In english I'm sure "Father ....." is polite in the western church. I don't speak or know greek though - if you're going to a greek wedding you'd better wait for someone who knows the lingo.83.100.250.79 (talk) 20:34, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks alot.  TastyCakes (talk) 22:03, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * An old friend is a convert to Orthodoxy and a priest--his Facebook name is "Father ____ _____" so I'd say Father is acceptable (if not preferred), although I couldn't assure you that this would also be true in Greek. I think it's a fairly safe assumption to make, though. Jwrosenzweig (talk) 06:29, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Religious figures are generally pretty genial people, so I'm sure if you asked him that he'd be happy to explain the proper form of address. There's no harm in ignorance if you're willing to learn.  Just start out with "Excuse me, Father ___.  By the way, is it "Father" or is there a better form of address..."  Dismas |(talk) 17:17, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I would say "Father" is an acceptable form of address for any clerygyman of any faith anywhere. It's respectful, and it's the default form that's widely used.  If they actually use a different style, they'll tell you but they won't make a big deal out of it.  I've never heard of any clergyman being addressed as "Priest ___".  --  JackofOz (talk) 23:21, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Not all faiths: most Protestants take the biblical passage Matthew 23:9 to mean that "Father" shouldn't be used in this fashion. Nyttend (talk) 03:20, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Image - story behind it


Something to do with one of Charlemagne's knights, anyone know?83.100.250.79 (talk) 19:34, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's Renaud de Montauban, a.k.a. Rinaldo di Montalbano, trying to survive a fell beast as he escapes the Castle Altaripa, in Legends of Charlemagne. You can read more about the illustration here and the source material here.  Search for "Altaripa, which was hung with human heads, and painted red with blood" for this exciting episode.  --Sean 20:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Great, Thanks - that reminds me of another question I've been meaning to to ask.
 * Would it be in bad taste to note that he appears to be running away and hiding from it? Half  Shadow  02:31, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * He might call it "gaining tactical advantage". :-) And the "in bad taste" question depends on what you mean. If you wonder if it would be in bad taste to say so in person, I'd say it would be an oddly committed chivalro-phile who was offended at the suggestion.  If you wonder, though, whether it ought to be said in an article on (or including) the image, of course you'd simply need to find a verifiable source that says so.  If it's an accepted interpretation, then cool, and if not, then I guess we'll have to keep our opinions of Renaud's bravery to ourselves. :-) Jwrosenzweig (talk) 06:32, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "Bravely fled Sir Renaud"? 87.81.230.195 (talk) 06:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Brave, brave Sir Robin Renaud. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sure Sir Renaud has a cunning plan, which he is about to demonstrate to the beast. I assume that, and not that he starved to death on a ledge in a dungeon due to fear - since that would not make, in my opinion, a classic story, worthy of retelling from generation to generation... (no spoilers please - I haven't read it yet) 83.100.250.79 (talk) 10:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No spoilers? OK, then I won't tell you about the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch. Actually, this illustration looks to me like Brunhilde being frightened by a rodent of unusual size. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 18:32, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No need, for verily there existeth an article. (Just swallowest thou not all it doth claim.) Clarityfiend (talk) 03:58, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * In an odd coincidence, the article of which you speak is coconut-shaped. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 11:37, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Chanson de geste - adaptations
Are there any adaptations of these sets of stories eg film What about the ley of Roland for instance, I find it difficult to believe that the french have missed the opportunity to convert into film (eg as per robin hood, king arthur  etc etc)

Wikipedia doesn't mention any I found, - do they exist? (And if not, why not???)83.100.250.79 (talk) 20:43, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * There's La chanson de Roland, and a TV series, Charlemagne, le prince à cheval. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 23:08, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * With Klaus Kinski The Song of Roland (film) - sounds vaguely promising.83.100.250.79 (talk) 10:02, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I never thought of Klaus Kinski as the romantic type, which is the way I've always imagined Roland. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 22:03, 22 August 2009 (UTC)