Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 June 7

= June 7 =

Can anyone recognize these two famous authors?
Both of their pics have been disorted. Here is one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mystery_Author_1.png The other: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mystery_Author_2.png

Thanks! SandBoxer (talk) 01:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * #1 looks a little like Pam Ayres. --  JackofOz (talk) 02:28, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * She does not look like Pam Ayres to me. 89.242.107.227 (talk) 21:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Number 2 is Carl Sagan, I think (quite possibly from the photo on this page).--Cam (talk) 07:24, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I think number 1 is Anne Rice, distorted from this original portrait. ---Sluzzelin talk  03:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

philosophical analogy forgotten
I am looking for the title and author of a philosophical analogy, wherein a cat swallows its own tail, thus creating an infinite loop. It may have something to do with eternal recurrence, i'm not sure. I've been searching the web for it for days now, to no avail.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maladyfinally (talk • contribs) 02:39, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I've never heard of a cat, but there's a snake: Ouroboros. Is that what you're after? --Tango (talk) 02:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe Maladyfinally is thinking of Robert A. Heinlein? The circle of Ouroboros is an element of Heinlein's The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, among other (though I don't think that cat swallows its own tail either). There's a bit more on Pixel the cat under Schrödinger's cat in popular culture ---Sluzzelin talk  03:06, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Norse or Roman Prometheus
Do Norse and Roman mythology have any figures who give knowledge to humanity against the orders of the gods, comparable to Prometheus or to the serpent of Genesis 3? Neon Merlin  06:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

There's some info here on the Prometheus page.91.111.74.247 (talk) 19:07, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

"Working with Liam Byrne"
Does anyone know where I can find the full copy of the leaked document referred to here – rather than just a few quotes? Thanks! ╟─ Treasury Tag ► Africa, Asia and the UN ─╢ 06:54, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I couldn't find it with Google. The longest list (21 items) that I was able to locate is here.  152.16.16.75 (talk) 10:30, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

European elections - proportional representation or what?
I voted in the recent elections in the UK - particularly as two or three other people had entrusted their votes to me by not voting themselves. I thought the number of seats in the European Parliament was decided in proportion to the number of votes cast, but looking at the stats for the previous elections in 2004, the Conservatives got 28.7% of the vote, and 27 seats. About one seat per 1% of the vote. But the Greens who got 5.8% of the vote, only got 2 seats. Far less in proportion - two seats rather than six seats. So why are they not in proportion? 78.151.137.230 (talk) 09:10, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not simple proportion. The biggest party wins the first seat, then their vote is halved, and the new highest (which may still be that party) wins the second seat. If that's the first seat they've won, their vote is halved; if it is their second, it is reduced to a third of the original value; if it is their third, it is reduced to a quarter of the original figure, and so on. After each 'round', the party with the highest number of votes wins the next seat. Unless I'm mistake, that is how I believe it works. - Jarry1250 (t, c) 10:34, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

That seems a weird way to do it. 78.151.137.230 (talk) 10:59, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * D'Hondt method. Algebraist 12:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The idea is that the number of votes for a particularly party, divided by the number of seats won by that party is as close as possible to being equal for all parties. Some of the lack of proportionality, however, will come from the fact that the country is divided into several constituencies, each with a handful of seats, so it is only proportional within a constituency, not within the whole country. --Tango (talk) 16:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * One major reason why the Green won fewer seats than their share of the vote might suggest is that there are only so many seats in each constituency, and in many of them, the Greens did not take enough votes to win any seats. A party which took 5.8% of the vote in each constituency would be unlikely to win any seats.  The Greens only took seats in London and in the South East, where there are more seats (and therefore a lower percentage of the vote is required to take one), and they got their best results. Warofdreams talk 19:29, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Why is that system used instead the more obvious method of just allocating seats in proportion to votes, with some rules about what to do with fractional seats? 78.147.85.112 (talk) 17:19, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That would be the Largest remainder method. Our article mentions some problems with it. Algebraist 17:28, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, it wouldn't. The largest remainder method is just one possible rule for what to do with fractional seats. All proportional representation methods allocate seats in proportion to votes, they just differ by how they deal with fractional seats. The D'Hondt method will always give all the whole seats to the right parties, it then gives the fractional seats out in a way that reduces discrepancies in how many votes are needed for each seat in different parties. They could assign all the complete seats first and then do the fractional ones, but this method is simpler to explain and gets the same result. --Tango (talk) 19:48, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * As long as they don't meddle with it. For the inaugural elections of the Australian Capital Territory Legislative Assembly in February 1989, they used a "Modified D’Hondt" system, a beast of a compromise between parties in the Federal Parliament, which proved so complicated that it took 9 weeks for the result to be known (and we're talking about a voting population of only about 200,000 people).  In those 2+ months, almost no political commentators or psephologists were confident enough to make any sort of prediction about the outcome.  We just had to wait.  See  and .  The "Modified D'Hondt" system is now history, btw.  --  JackofOz (talk) 23:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

UK MP's expenses - which political party had to pay most back?
Taking the amount paid back as a measure of the wrongdoing, which political party had its MPs pay back the greatest amount in total? And dividing this total amount of payback per party by the number of MPs in that party, which party had the highest per capita payback? 78.151.137.230 (talk) 09:16, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * This Guardian page (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/may/08/mps-expenses-houseofcommons) has links to the data held in a Google Spreadsheets doc. It's just crashed my browser (safari) trying to do some manipulation of the data but presuming you can get the spreadsheet to work properly it looks to hold the data you want - you'll just need to manipulate it to be calc up the amount per-party (you might want to use some sort of averaging as not all parties have the same number of MPs - i.e. Labour have much more MPs than, say, the Liberal Democrats.) ny156uk (talk) 10:20, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

It was the money paid back that I'm interested in, thank you otherwise, but none of the links from the Guardian page priovide that information. The "mash up" link either does not provide it or I cannot get it to work. 78.151.137.230 (talk) 11:16, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Where to find detailed election voting statistics in the UK?
I want to see what difference my vote in the recent elections in the UK had in electing one candidate or another. Is there, for example, any government website where I can see the number of votes for the different parties or individuals in my particular ward or district? Hopefully compared with the previous elections? It seems to be very difficult to find this information out. 78.151.137.230 (talk) 09:22, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Most Borough (or Unitary Authority) websites have such a breakdown. For example, Essex has this site; Norfolk here (map at bottom). Where are you? Putting '[County] 2009 local election' into Google tends to work.- Jarry1250 (t, c) 10:19, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Blanche Parry - Lady Troy - Elizabeth I of England
Blanche Parry - Lady Troy - - I have written these entries. The information is totally accurate and given in 'Mistress Blanche, Queen Elizabeth I's Confidante' by Ruth Elizabeth Richardson, 2007 published Logaston Press. See also www.blancheparry.com (1) I would like these to be featured articles - I have rewritten the citations for Blanche Parry and Lady Troy. As it is my research I don't want anyone else tampering with the entries. (2) As a result of my research other entries need slight revision - notably Elizabeth I of England. - how do I edit this entry please? I am happy to submit my suggested changes to you first. REHopkins (talk) 11:01, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Have you read our policy on 'owning' articles? Featured articles are nominated here. However, I suggest you consult the Help desk first about this, rather than here which is designed for factual questions, rather than those on Wikipedia itself. You will need to bring the articles into compliance with the Manual of Style for Wikipedia first or ask somoeone to help with this. It is also advisable you ask the WikiProject covering Biographies for a review first, and also consider Good Article status. More information should be attained at the Help desk. - Jarry1250 (t, c) 11:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You may also find it useful to review our policies on original research and conflict of interest, particularly if you are Ruth Elizabeth Richardson, the book you cite, Mistress Blanche, is your own work, and/or the blancheparry.com website is yours. This is in no way a criticism of the book or the quality of the research that went into it, but it is nevertheless a single published source that offers a new perspective on fairly mainstream historical subjects, and I can find no peer reviews or other information about the book online that would help people make an accurate assessment of its credibility as a source.  A key criterion for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability; the site's rules do not permit the publication of original research as fact, although new findings and theories are often mentioned in articles along with a description of their source and any controversy surrounding them.  Your phrase "as a result of my research" is therefore a bit of a red flag here - if you are intending to make potentially controversial changes to any article, citing this book as your sole source (particularly if you are the author), you may very well encounter difficulties with other editors, and a discussion on the article's talk page may be a better first step. It is unlikely that any article reliant on a single source could ever be selected for Featured Article status, or even Good Article status, and the article would be improved if further good-quality citations could be added.  Lastly, I'd second Jarry's suggestion that you read WP:OWN.  "Tampering" is not a helpful way to describe edits made by other users, who are as free as you are to make changes to any Wikipedia article.  Ka renjc 19:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Litany of the Saints
This article states in the translated Latin text lines with "V" [text] and "R." [text]. So a "soloist" (a priest I guess) sings the litany and the choir ("schola cantorum"?) is repeating it.


 * What does V and R stand for?

--217.189.226.92 (talk) 11:01, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The V is "versus" (the verse, sung by the priest), and R is "responsum" (the response, sung by the congregation). Adam Bishop (talk) 13:16, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Terminator
Went to see the new film the other day and it made me think about the other three. It made me wonder how skynet was able to transmit commands to the terminators in the first three films is skynet hadn't been activated yet? Any thoughts --Thanks, Hadseys 11:53, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen the fourth film. Why couldn't the T-series units have been working independantly? If they "require" constant commands from Skynet, the time-travel models were probably purpose-built without that feature. Vimescarrot (talk) 12:39, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The Terminators were not getting updated information from Skynet. They were pre-programmed and sent back in time. They had "microchip brains" or something equally amusing. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 15:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * This is correct, I don't believe there's any moment in any of the first three movies in which any of the various Terminators is shown to have received a command from Skynet after traveling through time. Tempshill (talk) 17:35, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It is a fiction, written by scriptwriters. What they write may not be internally consistant in every respect. 78.147.85.112 (talk) 17:16, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Why are people ignoring the entertainment desk and posting questions about films on other desks?91.111.74.247 (talk) 19:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Given the subject matter of this question, perhaps the OP is asking this question in the vein of "Oh the humanity"?  Tempshill (talk) 16:42, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Too bad we don't have a Posthumanities Desk. —Tamfang (talk) 15:25, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Unusual classics such as Thus Spake Zarathustra, Against Nature
Is Thus Spake Zarathustra worth reading as a novel, or is it only of interest to philosophy academics? I have read Against Nature. Are there any other unusual classic novels like these two? 89.241.39.10 (talk) 19:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Our article on philosophical novels has some examples, eg. Voltaire´s Candide and Musil´s The Man Without Qualities. On a different level, you may enjoy Stanislaw Lem or Jorge  Luis Borges.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 19:55, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * On your first question: We can never answer these types of questions because it's completely subjective. The best I can do is tell you of my experience.  On a whim one day many years ago, I bought a copy.  I got to about page 5 and thought "There's no way I'm ever going to finish this", and I never did.  But if I had struggled manfully through to the end, I might have been saying to myself "Wow, I'm really glad I read that".  Or I might have been saying "Thank God that's finished, now I never have to open it again".  There's no way of knowing without actually reading it.  If you're unsure, better to borrow a copy first rather than buying one.  Or read excerpts online, or the whole book if it's available.  --  JackofOz (talk) 22:40, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I battled through the tedium of Nausea (novel) and other classics in my youth. I got to the final chapter but I've never finished it. I thought reading classics was good for you, but with hindsight I would have been better off spending the time just going for a walk. 78.149.143.187 (talk) 10:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Personally, I greatly enjoyed reading Thus Spake Zarathustra. The strange "poetry" and somewhat surreal stories and imagery was a far far cry from most "philosophy" I've read. If by "academic" you mean dry and tedious, then Zarathustra is practically the opposite. I've heard some people find it unsettling--perhaps for its motifs of rejecting God and such, but I found those parts more joyful than scary--a peon to freedom and chance over predestination and a mechanical world. It seemed practically Zen in parts. But that's edging into philosophy. As literature I found it rich and passionate yet deep--like the music of Beethoven maybe--profound, intense, perhaps too much so at times, perhaps crazy and difficult to follow here and there, but shot through with beauty and, despite a surface of despair and negativity, great depths of joy. In short, one personal datapoint. Your mileage may vary. ...also, for what it is worth, I found the first part hard, but it is easy to just jump in and start anywhere. The chapters are all short. There are some overarching themes, but it can be read in bits and pieces. One of the chapters I like is Before Sunrise. Pfly (talk) 08:54, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

New York parking violations scandal - article?
This SF Chronicle article mentions, in passing, "the New York parking violations scandal in the early '90s". Is there a Wikipedia article about that affair? I've found a few contemporaneous news stories like this NY Times one, but I've not found anything that gives an overview and final analysis (just what one would hope for from such a Wikipedia article). The Donald Manes article touches on it; the articles on mayors Dinkins, Koch, and Giuliani don't seem to mention it at all. Hopper Mine (talk) 19:37, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There was a racketeering scandal in 1986 but we don't seem to have an article on it specifically. Donald Manes wound up committing suicide over it. Law and order based an episode on it. You could make the article 1986 New York City Parking Violations Bureau scandal if you feel up to it.
 * On an unrelated note unpaid tickets from parking and moving violations are a common form of abuse of diplomatic immunity. Sifaka   talk  20:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Lebanon general election 2009 candidates
Is there a website where I can find who are the candidates for Hezbollah, Amal Movement, Free Patriotic Movement, Future Movement, Kataeb and Lebanese Forces? I tried some but most of them were in Arabic, not English. You wikipedia guys need to update your Lebanon general election, 2009 article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.54.111 (talk) 19:59, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


 * "You wikipedia guys" is us, as in me and you. It's edited by everyone.Popcorn II (talk) 21:56, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Further note: a helpful place to note that an article needs updating is to look at its edit history and leave a note on the Talk page of a recently active editor or two who seem (as revealed in Compare Versions) to make significant content contributions. Otherwise, see the article's Talk page and find out which WikiProject/s might be appropriate to notify, as they may not frequent the Ref Desks and thus not have noticed your remark here. -- Deborahjay (talk) 16:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Pakistani constituencies
Is there site where I can find the list of Pakistani federal and provincial constituencies such as Rawalpindi-III and Rawalpindi-IV in federal and provincial governments and the candidates of each party? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.54.111 (talk) 20:06, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Bangladeshi politicians
Is there site where I can find candidates of Awami League, Bangladesh Nationalist Party, Jamaat-E-Islami and Jatiya Party-Ershad faction and the constituencies they contested during the 2008 election? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.54.111 (talk) 20:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)