Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 March 8

= March 8 =

Info on Hal Bevan Petman, artist
Hello, I am not sure how to use your site. I wrote the material given below some yrs ago, but have not rcvd any response so far. Is it not visible to readers? Romano Hello, I am looking for information on the British portrait artist Hal Bevan-Petman. I would welcome any input for my research. Some basic stuff is available on a website I started up recently but I require: Photos of the artist,and information on his wife Beryl. Of course, input on portraits around the world would be great! Please look up my website www.halbevanpetman. com Romano====


 * I went back to the October, 2008 Archives where your question first appeared. I recall doing some checking about for iit at the time, but, if I came up with anything other than your own web site, I didn't provide an answer. We can read your request just fine. We just haven't had anyone who had an answer for you. Perhaps you will have better luck this time. // BL \\ (talk) 17:27, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Same (non)results as Bielle. Some entries on artnet and similar sites, very few details (all of which you already have in your website).  Sorry.  Maybe there is a Pakistani reference desk?  My browser does not show all  the scripts in the language box (not that I could decipher it, anyway).  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:01, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Have just seen your question. Some basic background, which you may have already: Hal (Henry Charles) Bevan-Petman was born in Scotland in 1894 and died in Rawalpindi 1980  Graduated from the Slade School of Art in 1917, and moved from England to Simla a few years later, where he painted society portraits and also taught children to paint, including an 8 year-old Indian girl called Amrita Sher-Gil, who later became a famous painter herself (included among her many famous portraits is one of her friend and lover, Malcolm Muggeridge, painted in 1935).  After independence, Hal opted for Pakistan. A Pakistani film-maker, Taqi Shaheen, this year produced a 20-minute documentary, Discovering Petman, using interviews with Pakistani beauties painted over 40 years ago by HB-P as a means to explore his life.  You can see a lot of his paintings in this extract from the film - how's your Urdu?  AndyKnott009 (talk) 15:10, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Kassan, Uzbekistan (ca. 1942)
I've not succeeded in verifying the name of Kassan (or Kasan), a locale in Uzbekistan, in which Jewish refugees who had fled Poland at the outset of WWII were permitted to resettle in approx. 1942. Some "arrived by freight train from Kuibyshev" and it was possibly on the order of a "large town." Apparently many of these refugees (possibly numbering in the dozens, hundreds, or thousands) remained there or in the surrounding region until their repatriation to Poland at the end of the war. -- Deborahjay (talk) 09:59, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * By googling around a little, I found that Kasan and Koson are two alternative spellings. Apparently, Koson is the Uzbek name (see uz:Qashqadaryo viloyati and uz:Koson) and Kasan is the Russian name (see ru:Кашкадарьинская область). &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 10:33, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, this seems quite likely! Now, as this is my first acquaintance with the Uzbek language, I hadn't thought to ask: is there perhaps another variant spelling with an initial Q? -- Deborahjay (talk) 11:12, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Deborah, yes, highly likely, see the twin towns Qorasuv and Kara-Suu, in Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan respectively. Transliteration is not at all obvious, since both words are more often written in Cyrillic, yet the root-name is from Turkic languages. This example means "black water", but the same confusing divisions holds true throughout Central Asia. Stalin had a fun time drawing borders to separate people! You might get a more precise answer on the language desk, of course. BrainyBabe (talk) 19:28, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * BTW, for general edification, the Kuibyshev you mention links to a dab page with about ten places to choose from. It takes some detective work! BrainyBabe (talk) 15:32, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Religious fanatics
I wanted to ask what can be done about this ridiculous attack on critical thinking and reason, which techniques are best to appeal to the public about this issue???Bastard Soap (talk) 15:49, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I think you're going to have to be far more specific. What attack on critical thinking and reasoning? What issue? That there are people who you characterise as religious fanatics? Mor Info Pls. 79.66.56.21 (talk) 17:28, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * (After E/C) Are you referring to some specific evidence of "religious fanaticism"? If not, and you want a general approach, please understand religious belief is not, by defintion, subject to "critical thinking and reason"; if it were, then it would no longer be belief, but fact. It is also likely true that no believer considers him/herself to be a "fanatic", but merely more observant than most. // BL \\ (talk) 17:35, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * You can look at the classic little book The True Believer by Eric Hoffer; however, his subject matter was by no means confined to fanatics of the religious type only... AnonMoos (talk) 02:22, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I mean is there something that works with these people? That makes them realise how retarded and unreasonable they are? I'm talking about shit like spreading of aids because "condoms are bad", the murder of 50 people over a friggin cartoon and things like that. Is there any hope of eradicating such nonsense?Bastard Soap (talk) 18:30, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I've toyed with the idea of inventing a religion as alternative to contemporary religions, one that emphasises peace, non-violence (except in the case of self-defence), the rights of others to live as they please, etc.. It might take a while to catch on though.  A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:28, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It's always good to understand where they're coming from. People respond well to being understood. Wrad (talk) 21:13, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I understand them, they are to mentally weak to accept the true nature of the world, and prefer to believe they can speak in the name of god and justify their ridiculous opinions with divinity, but that doesn't really help me pull their head out of their ass when they have been thought that it's a virtue to be an unreasonable fucktard and to make no compromise? 92.251.35.30 (talk) 21:38, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, starting from a position that
 * a)you understand 'the true nature of the world'
 * b)religious belief is a sign of mental weakness
 * c)they personally are mentally weak if they don't agree with you
 * d)them not compromising is them being an unreasonable fucktard
 * e)while you are able to consider their opinions ridiculous because you accept the true nature of the world
 * probably impedes constructive discussion. If only because it will tend to make them defensive and unwilling to cede any ground. People are far more open to compromise when they don't feel under attack.


 * For example, being raised in a religious household with a brother who was hostile to the religion from an early age: he would talk about people blindly adhering to doctrine, etc, because every conversation he had with them he cast himself as a hostile outsider. People responded to that by closing ranks and defending their views. My experience, questioning as an insider with no hostile edge, was that just about everybody disagreed with some areas of doctrine and were certainly open to discussing others. And they would talk about acting to change some of it; these some areas they would automatically defend if they were being attacked by a hostile outsider. 79.66.56.21 (talk) 07:36, 10 March 2009 (UTC)