Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 October 20

= October 20 =

File:Old sculpture.jpg
can anyone identify any information about this sclupture i posted it on wikimedia commons but there is no licease information or anything. thanks KSLaVida (talk) 01:27, 20 October 2009 (UTC) File:Old sculpture.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by KSLaVida (talk • contribs) 01:28, 20 October 2009 (UTC) http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Old_sculpture.jpg KSLaVida (talk) 01:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The museum label is right there in the image. You took this picture in the Musée d'Orsay, Paris. The sculpture is 19th century French, perhaps a morceau de reception for the Academy. --Wetman (talk) 03:06, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, here it is: Your sculptor is Jules-Félix Coutan. Better keep notes as you go!--Wetman (talk) 03:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Interesting Moral/Ethics Money Question
My friends went to the liquor store to get beer for a party. Karl bought an 18-pack of Bud Light, Chris bought a 12 pack of Coors Light, both similarly priced. At the party they handed out beers without thinking about brand, i.e. people just took whatever they got, there was no discrimination between brands. In the morning there were only 7 Bud Lights left. My question is how should the beers be divided? 169.229.77.106 (talk) 02:41, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Before or after breakfast ? DOR (HK) (talk) 09:31, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * If you want to be completely impartial you can give Karl 4, Chris 3, and have Chris reimburse Karl for the fifth of the bottle that was his portion (18/30 = .6, .6*7 = 4.2). Maybe Chris and Karl don't care that much. What's a dollar or two between friends? &mdash;Akrabbimtalk 02:49, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * You didn't mention the number of ounces or ml per beer, so let's assume each beer is 10 ounces, for ease of calculation. You also didn't mention whether you value Bud Lights more highly than Coors Lights.  Let's assume not.  Pour all the beers into a big bowl.  (They're all Bud Lights, so you could also pour them into a compost bin and you won't notice much difference in flavor.)  The amount to pour Karl, into his own compost bin, is (10 * 6) * (18/(18+12)), which is 36 ounces.  Chris gets the remainder.  Now both of them must chug and throw away what they can't get down their throats before pausing.  Everybody wins!  Tempshill (talk) 03:59, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * In my experience, friends that keep accounts of these sorts of transactions aren't friends for very long. If you spend this much effort to keep track of who owes who a few bucks, you end up resenting each other, and the whole mess just isn't worth it for a few bucks.  Instead, each friend should be buying the beer in good faith as a gift to the party effort; and should expect no compensation for their own donation, which is given freely and without expectation of remuneration.  If everyone keeps that attitude, there is no danger of hurt feelings.  Leave the leftover beers in the fridge for the next party, or let them be community property on "whoever wants it drink it" mentality.  -- Jayron  32  04:48, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Good answer. Another idea: Give them to the party's host. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:59, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It would be a start towards the concept depicted here: ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:06, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

This reminds of a story I read in a book with riddles and logical problems. In it, two travelling friends meet another traveler who doesn't have any food. The two friends share their bread with him, one contributing four pieces of bread to their meal and the other one five. At the end of the meal the lone traveler takes out nine coins and gives six to one friend and three to the other. Why he didn't give them five and four? The reasoning goes that the friends ate three pieces of bread each, so the lone traveler got one piece from one friend and two from the other, so one third of the money should go to one friend and two thirds to the other. Just wanted to show that you can argue for different ways to divide the beers.Sjö (talk) 08:42, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

benefit concerts for Pacific islands earthquake clean-up efforts
Were there benefit concerts for the 2009 Samoa earthquake clean-up efforts?24.90.204.234 (talk) 05:01, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It seems as though there were at least a few concerts organized to benefit clean-up efforts and victims of the Samoa earthquake. "I Love the Islands" is among them. Information about this event which took place October 19, can be found here: Additional information and video of the event can be found here:  Several other smaller concerts by individual artists/bands also seem to be in the works. The search string "samoa earthquake concerts" yielded the above results and others related to smaller events. You can see the results here:   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ktstrat (talk • contribs) 15:30, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * There are actually multiple "I Love the Islands" being carried out. The Auckland and Christchurch were on Monday and Tuesday respectively and Auckland will almost definitely have been the biggest but there's still Dunedin, New Plymouth and Wellington to go. Nil Einne (talk) 19:32, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Can someone write an article about the event? When I tried to do a little preview, it was deleted. On October 7, there was this event called "Hope for Samoa". It was also a benefit concert.24.90.204.234 (talk) 17:16, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Note also my comments at WP:RD/E Grutness...wha?  05:58, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Brades Cockatoo Axe
Hello, where was the Brades Cockatoo Axe made?--119.17.139.241 (talk) 07:47, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Brades & Co., Ltd. were in business in Sheffield, England, which had been a center of fine metalworking since the late 17th century.--Wetman (talk) 19:10, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Academic Residency
There is a monastery somewhere in Europe which offers a residency for academics who successfully apply. They provide room and board for a year and leave the student to their own devises. Do you have any idea what monastery this is? Also, are there other similar residency programs anywhere in the world? Thanks, --S.dedalus (talk) 07:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * A question about this concept was posted here a couple of months ago. Go through the archives, I remember two such places were brought up. TomorrowTime (talk) 11:48, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The OP posted this question here more than a year ago. There was no proper answer in 2008 (neither do I have one).
 * There are quite a number of monasteries which provide accommodation in Europe (there are dozens in Italy, alone), but I could not find any mention of the academic scheme you are referring to. You may check with a travel agency specialising in "educational"  tourism.  It may also be an idea to talk to a clergy man / a theological faculty / a seminary in your vicinity.  There is also this site  for monastic accommodation in the US which you could check for information.  This site  also has some useful links.  In theory, many monasteries may offer accommodation in return for some donation.  Of course, you will have to follow some rules.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 13:53, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It sounds a little like the section of Herman Hesse's novel the Glass Bead Game, where the protagonist is sent as an intellectual emissary to a Benedictine monastery. 14:13, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Ah, my apologies. I couldn’t remember whether I had asked about this, and couldn’t find it in the archive. . . An understandable mistake, you will grant, since no one could help me the last time. In any case, Cookatoo’s answer is helpful and will get me started. Thanks! --S.dedalus (talk) 21:44, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * This is supposed to be an actual religious monastery, or just a metaphorical "monastery" for academics? Just curious --71.111.194.50 (talk) 08:24, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Image location?
Does anyone know where my friend is standing in front of?

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rob_morgan.jpg

Thank you. KSLaVida (talk) 13:30, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * If it is your friend in the picture you must at least be able to narrow it down to which country and/or city that the picture was taken in. That would make guessing for us a little bit easier, especially since it is such a low resolution that zooming does not reveal much. --Saddhiyama (talk) 18:00, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * And if you get real desperate, you could ask him. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:59, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I believe that's one of the matching fountains in St. Peter's Square. See the image at right. Deor (talk) 00:47, 21 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Pretty clever, Deor, I must say!--Wetman (talk) 05:16, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Especially since I haven't been there for 36 years and can't manage to remember where I set my cigarette lighter down ten minutes ago. Deor (talk) 10:48, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Japanese presense in southeast asia: c1920s
Just curious to know what the Japanese were doing in varios parts of Asia, in particular in Sandakan, Borneo. I came across this from the film Sandakan No. 8 which tells a story about a karayuki-san (prostitute) and brothel in Sandakan. One article says that these japanese brothels existed in conjunction with the expansion of Japanese business interest and colonial empire (link). ie: that the prostitutes were brought in mainly to service japanese men abroad. What sort of business interest did they have here? And has it got something to do with with the expansion/invasion of the japanese empire during WWII, even though the brothels existed around 1920s? Which is at least 20 years before the japanese army invaded Borneo. ќמшמφטтгמ torque 16:01, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The Japanese were involved in extensive trade relations throughout Asia and also globally by the 1920s. Our article on Sandakan indicates that the main trade item during the 1920s would have been timber.  Japan was then rapidly urbanizing and would have been importing timber for that purpose. Throughout its industrial history, Japan has had to import raw materials, such as timber, from other countries, principally other Asian countries. A desire to gain control of these raw materials was certainly one of the main motives behind Japanese imperialism during the first half of the 20th century, which was in turn one of the principal causes of World War II. Just to be clear, Sandakan was not part of the Japanese Empire in the 1920s.  It was the capital of British-controlled North Borneo.  It was not occupied by Japanese forces until 1942. Those forces were expelled in 1945. Marco polo (talk) 17:52, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Japan was importing oil, as well, and I know Borneo is a major oil producer. Was it back then?  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It started in Sumatra in the late 1800s. Not sure about Borneo.  Googlemeister (talk) 20:55, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I found the Balikpapan article, which mentions that in that area, In 1897, the first drilling of oil began by a small refinery company. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * However, the region around Sandakan (then British North Borneo and today Sabah) has never produced much oil. It wouldn't make sense for Japanese merchants to be in British Sandakan if they were after oil several hundred kilometers to the south in Dutch Borneo.  If they were in Sandakan, they were there for timber.  Marco polo (talk) 01:56, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

What was the first battle that firearms (small arms) was widely (or almost widely) used?
What was the first battle that firearms (small arms) was widely (or almost widely) used? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.89.186.165 (talk) 16:50, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Check out History of firearms. From what  it says there, it looks like in 1288 a battle definitely took place using guns (since we found one there) although it's likely they were used a century or so before. ~ Amory ( u  •  t  •  c ) 17:36, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Early Modern warfare has a lot of info about gunpowder weapons in general, as well as canons, was used in 1260. ~ Amory ( u •  t  •  c ) 17:37, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course one probably could not consider a cannon small arms, and finding one gun does not indicate that they were widely used. Googlemeister (talk) 18:40, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No, but it provides a time frame for a question that that is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to answer completely accurately. ~ Amory ( u •  t  •  c ) 21:08, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It really depends on your definition of "widely used". I'd say it happened during the Thirty Years' War, when Gustavus Adolphus shifted from the classic pike-heavy tercio pike and shot formation, to a linear one with emphasis on flintlock muskets. --Carnildo (talk) 00:30, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

One suspects that the answer is contained in the first paragraph of the History of firearms article:
 * "The earliest depiction of a gunpowder weapon is the illustration of a fire-lance on a mid-10th century silk banner from Dunhuang [China]. The Tê-An Shou Chhêng Lu, an account of the siege of De'an in 1132, records that Song forces used fire-lances against the Jurchens." DOR (HK) (talk) 06:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

what's the deal with this "one suspects" thing, are you a blast from the past, circa early eighteen hundreds? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.230.64.45 (talk) 15:54, 21 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The Battle of Cerignola (1503, France v Spain) is "considered the first battle in history won by gunpowder small arms". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alansplodge (talk • contribs) 20:14, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

With widely used, i meant something about, 1 in 25 soldiers used firearms (small arms).187.89.112.108 (talk) 21:47, 21 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I think I remember there was some battle toward the end of the hundred years war, I forget where but it might have begun with B, where the French (rather unfairly) set guns and cannons against our archers and won. 148.197.114.207 (talk) 19:51, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Copyright on Norwegian stamps?
Hello, I've had an email sent to me recently, asking whether a 2002 Norwegian stamp would qualify as public domain. I know stamps in some jurisdictions are PD, but aren't in most. The stamp in question is from 2002, and I uploaded it to Wikipedia as fair use in 2004. The gentleman who asked is writing a paper on group theory, and would like to use the image. Any advice on whether it would be more than simple fair use? -- Zanimum (talk) 18:11, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Editors that patrol Media copyright questions may be better equipped to answer your question than those that patrol this reference desk. You could ask your question there... -- Jayron  32  19:20, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Why not just contact the Norwegian post office and ask for permission to use the image in the paper? As it's non-commercial use, I don't think there'd be a problem getting permission even if they do claim copyright on it.  On the www.posten.no web site I found the mailing address "Posten Norge AS, 0001 Oslo".  (If you don't speak Norwegian, don't worry, lots of people there speak English.  It would be polite to apologize for writing in English, of course.)  --Anonymous, 03:11 UTC, October 21, 2009.

You might use the following Norwegian wording (preferably with information added about where the paper will be used or published): Jeg ber om deres bekreftelse at et bilde av det Norske frimerket kr.5,50 "Nordia 2002" som avbilder Neils Henrik Abel kan brukes i en matematisk rapport. Translation: I ask you to confirm that a picture of the Norwegian stamp kr.5,50 "Nordia 2002" that shows Neils Henrik Abel may be used in a mathematics article. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:10, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

mormons in the military
What % of the US military is made up of Mormons? Googlemeister (talk) 20:00, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The best I can find is this table of recruits by state, which shows that while Utah made up 1.2% of the population, it contributed only 0.6% (1999) and 0.7% (2003) of military recruits. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:36, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * This may be because many military-age mormons go on two-year missions. Wrad (talk) 01:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * A couple of additional points to consider: Utah ≠ The LDS Church, and The LDS Church ≠ Utah. While the two are obviously culturally and historically linked, only about 60% of the state's residents are LDS, and only about 15% of LDS Membership is found in Utah.  (A few years ago, the church crossed the mark of having more members outside of the USA than within.)  The point about missionaries sounds logical.  Another possible reason is that raw population data doesn't specify what percentage are within the age window to join the Armed Forces-- at least 17 to join but not older than 28 (Coast Guard), 29 (Marines), 35 (Navy and Air Force), or 42 (Army) (Citation).  According to the  Census department, 31% of Utah residents are under 18 (compared to a national average of 24%).  Also notable is that almost 10% of Utahns are under 5, compared to a national average of 7%).  This seems to indicate that fewer residents of the state are eligble to join, independent of religion.
 * All that being said, though, it has always been the tradition of the LDS Church to honor and support the U.S. Armed Forces. There is no prohibition against serving, and in fact, military service is considered similar to missionary service.  Even during the Church's hastened exodus from the recognized borders of the United States, the Church accepted a request from the government to muster volunteers and form The Mormon Battalion.  In my own local congregation in Massachusetts (about 500 people) I can come up with 10 members off the top of my head, who either have served or are currently serving, including a decorated WWII veteran who served as a paratrooper in both theaters.  Robert C. Oaks and Bruce Carlson, both members of the Second Quorum of the Seventy, were both four-star generals in the Air Force.  All in all, the Church in general supports and honors military service. Kingsfold (talk) 12:32, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Oisiu-Eiseu and the Tomb of the Unknowns
The description of this monument on Wikipedia and several other sites indicates that this name is included in wreaths that represent major battles of World War I. Unlike the other battles of the war, some of which have articles that are "too long" this one is a red link. I find no reference to this on any other google searches, or to either half of the hyphenated name. Was this an actual battle better known by another name? The information is consistent with information provided by the cemetery's website. SDY (talk) 22:32, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Minorly, the cemetery's website spells it differently from our article as Oisiu-Eisue, which is equally unhelpful in both Google and Wikipedia searches. SDY (talk) 22:40, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Also spelt Oise-Aisne United States campaigns in World_War I not sure what is actually carved on the monument  meltBanana  23:20, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The monument itself just has wreaths, not writing, as far as I can tell from the picture on the website (which is a 5 kilobyte .jpg that wouldn't show small details). I haven't been there in many years.  Oise and Aisne are both departments and rivers in northern France, so that makes a lot more sense.  Given that English and French use (more or less) the same alphabet, it seems odd that the spellings would be rendered so differently.  Those departments have not changed their names.  SDY (talk) 23:40, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

(undent) As a side note, there is a cemetery and memorial for the Oise-Aisne campaign in France. Our article on the subject is somewhat dominated by a rather unusual feature associated with the cemetery. The memorial there includes a substantial "Tomb of the Unknowns", which also includes the same dedication ("Here rests in honored glory..."). Is this a standard inscription used at all US memorials that include unknown soldiers? (There are 597 of them at O-A alone). I'm guessing that WWI and WWII produced no shortage of unknowns. SDY (talk) 00:01, 21 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Is this a French / Flemmish issue; like Ypres / Ieper? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alansplodge (talk • contribs) 20:21, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The cemetery's website, as linked above, contains several other spelling errors, (e.g. Sommes for Somme), so it is not surprising that this name should also be different from the correct spelling.Sussexonian (talk) 21:13, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Corporate vs Personal Income Tax
Is the portion of the income tax payed by the corporation tax larger than the portion payed by individuals? Also, did the amount payed by the corporation tax decrease during the 1980s and 1990s? Is the current corporation tax lower than pre-1980 levels?-- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.146.124.35 (talk) 23:30, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * What jurisdiction are you talking about? In a lot of places, individuals face a progressive tax scale, so your average tax rate may be higher or lower than the corporate tax rate depending on your income level. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 23:49, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I am talking about corporate and personal income tax rates in the USA. 99.146.124.35 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.146.124.35 (talk) 00:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Check Income tax in the United States and State income tax --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 00:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

According to the Congressional Budget Office, corporate tax only was 20.2% of individual income tax (only) in the 1980s, 23.3% in the 1990s and 23.5% in this decade. Note that this does not include the myriad of other taxes both companies and individuals pay. DOR (HK) (talk) 06:26, 21 October 2009 (UTC)