Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 September 23

= September 23 =

Letter to Mr. Obama.
Hi, I am a kindergarten teacher in Argentina, and we want to send a letter to the United States President, Barack Obama. We just want to send a letter without caring about his response, we know he is a very busy man. My question is, where should we send the letter to?. Thank you very much. --190.50.108.74 (talk) 01:39, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Send it to the address of The White House, which is 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 01:43, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Baseball Bugs, thank you very much, quick responde really. Thank you very very very very much. --190.50.108.74 (talk) 01:50, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * While there is not much chance the letter will get lost, here's the full postal address:
 * 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
 * Washington, D.C. 20500
 * U.S.A.
 * // BL \\ (talk) 01:58, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I wonder if during the 2001-09 period a letter addressed "W, 20500" would have reached its destination? I'm guessing yes, if mailed from the U.S. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:55, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * And, just to preview, you probably will get a response, albeit of course not a personal one from him. If you write to the White House, you usually get a "thanks for writing, here's what I think about the issues you brought up" response that has an autopenned signature. It's kind of neat. --98.217.14.211 (talk) 02:26, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Further, you might get on the Christmas card list. I had to write to President Reagan when I was in school and then got a Christmas card from him (meaning, his administration with a photocopied signature inside).  I've written to every President since and always got on the Christmas card list.  Mainly, I just want to see what the cards look like each year and how much they try to avoid using anything remotely religious on them.  Some (Clintons) go overboard by avoiding any mention of holidays and just having a photo of them in a room of the Whitehouse (later, they added a wish for a joyful holiday season).  Other's (Papa Bush) blatantly wish "a merry Christmas".  Hmmm... I fear I'm hijacking this topic so I'll shut up. --  k a i n a w &trade; 02:33, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Here's the way it works, or at least how it worked during the Clinton administration, in case you are interested: Part of the White House staff is dedicated to answering letters. The responses are usually form letters geared toward particular issues: "Thank you for writing to me on the important issue of the affordability of higher education. My administration has made it a priority to" blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Here's a real-life example: . The letters are signed with a machine that imitates the president's signature. But occasionally, some of the response letters will be taken to the president himself for approval, just to make sure the form letters being sent out on a particular issue are meeting the president's approval. Those letters are actually signed by the president. I was told that on one occasion, Bill Clinton kept forgetting to sign off on one of the response letters, so when he finally got around to it, he hand-wrote a personal note apologizing for the delay on the response letter. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:53, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * You can also write to White House pets, and their staff will write a nice response with a few self-portraits. I still have a letter from Socks kicking around. --Sean 14:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

That means if I write a letter to the white house somebody will actually read it and compose a reply? ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 21:45, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Someone (some sort of low-level staffer) will actually read it. They will probably send you one of many standard replies. E.g. if you say, "great job!" they have a "great job!" reply. If you have a "hey, I have an opinion on health care", they probably have one or two replies based on your opinion. If you say, "you're the Anti-christ!", they probably have an amusing reply as well (and probably put you on a nut list). --Mr.98 (talk) 02:16, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * And don't be surprised if the letter ends up in your FBI file, regardless of what it says. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 10:06, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Is this that unusual? I've written letters (well e-mails) to MPs and once the leader of opposition in New Zealand before and usually get a reply (often after a long while). I wrote an email to a Malaysian (opposition) MP once and also got a reply. While I've heard other Malaysian (particularly government) MPs can be difficult to reach via e-mail, I would expect most would reply if you contact them via ordinary mail provided they there's a meaningful way to reply without causing problems and they don't think you're being sarcastic or annoying, even if their reply is useless. Have you ever written to your MP or perhaps the PM in India? Nil Einne (talk) 20:35, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I haven't. Because I didn't expect a reply. I thougth they would be too busy to reply to whoever sends them a letter. May be I'll write a letter to my MP, to the PM, and to the White House too and see what happens. Thanks! ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 15:49, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Bullies and authoritarians
I'm interested in the fundamental dimensions that underlie our naming of these and similar concepts. What is the difference between a bully and an authoritarian, and what are the similarities? Not a homework question. 89.242.104.32 (talk) 09:50, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The difference is largely the pay scale. Authoritarians get paid. For bullies, it's a hobby. →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 09:53, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * More like a calling. 99.166.95.142 (talk) 19:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

An Authoritarian is more largely used as a political term, and is used to describe differing levels of authorotarianism in terms of how the state regulate's people's powers and decision making abilities. A Bully is a generic term used to describe an individual that uses intimidation (physical or mental) / violence or black-mail for either purely their own pleasure or to achieve a desired outcome. I don't see them being as hugely similar - personally I think that one is a (99.9% of the time) negatively-viewed trait (bullying) and another is a term used to describe a series of practices that may get widespread approval, but which are on a certain plane in terms of organising society. 10:59, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm voting for Baseball Bugs' response! An authoritarian is an enforcer of a canonical received opinion or party line. In their common modus operandi, the threat of violence, actualized by the bully, who enforces popular opinion with justification by recourse to authority rather than fact, the two are inextricably linked, as Baseball Bugs succinctly  observed.. --Wetman (talk) 11:37, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The adult bullies I've come across are more into humiliation and getting others to ostracise the victim than violence. Child bullies I recall were more into violence or threats of violence. 92.24.119.215 (talk) 16:50, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

As far as I was aware an authoritarian is primarily a description of a personality. The authoritarian personality described the early research, and the more methodolically (is that a real word?) consistent development of that is described in the article Right-wing authoritarianism. Of the three traits described in that article, numbers two and three correspond to a bully - so an authoritarian = bully + trait1. 78.149.171.105 (talk) 21:58, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Private Question
If this sounds like a silly question, I apologize. When a woman's vagina smells bad, it obviously means she didn't wash herself. But does it also mean she recently had sex? 199.219.187.29 (talk) 15:28, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Neither is necessarily true. "Smells bad" is quite subjective. &mdash; Lomn 15:32, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * There are many possible causes for a change in smell. It could be due to new hormones that a woman may be producing at a certain stage in her menstrual cycle, or if her menstrual cycle has been interrupted by "the pill", or it could be due to a bacterial, yeast, or some other kind of infection.  Women can get these infections in public restrooms and other places.  A change in smell is certainly not proof of sexual activity, and the smell may be resistant to cleaning, so that isn't necessarily the cause either.  The best way to determine the source of any problem would be to consult a physician, but it is likely to be something that resolves itself in time.  192.251.134.5 (talk) 16:04, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * There are a number of causes for unusual vaginal smells, a few of them are listed in both Vaginitis and Bacterial vaginosis - these include STI's and wearing thongs amongst others. Nanonic (talk) 16:07, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * She may also have a condition where the breakdown products of a certain protein are passed out in the urine and sweat, and makes her smell strange. I'm used to this phenomenon, as my family have this reaction to eating fish. Blowed if I can remember the name though! --TammyMoet (talk) 12:06, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * There a similar effect from eating asparagus. Apparently, while everyone gets "asparagus pee", only 22% of us have the capacity to smell it. Most of the 22% seem to be related to me. The smell affects the whole genito-urinary area of the body and lasts for several hours. // BL \\ (talk) 14:39, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

one of the reasons for the smell has to do with a girls PH ballance, like if a girl eats to many tomateos it messes with her PH and can make her....smell differnt down there User: DanielTrox

Gaddafi's tent
When Muammar al-Gaddafi has visited the UN before, where has he pitched his tent? Was it on the property in New Jersey where he was asked not to stay this time? 99.166.95.142 (talk) 17:45, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Our article on al-Gaddafi notes that this is his first visit to the UN. &mdash; Lomn 18:17, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I hadn't been aware of that. 99.166.95.142 (talk) 18:56, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Arts: Trying to learn more about a sculpture
There is a large public sculpture in Lake Mälaren in Stockholm Sweden that is simply a hand and the lower part of a face emerging from the water. The hand points to the Jupiter Hotel. I'm trying to find out more about this installation, specifically who the artist is, but any info is welcome. Thank you.216.148.231.67 (talk) 19:55, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

The sculpture is by Lotta Hannerz, see more info about the artist here (http://www.angelikaknappergallery.com/LottaHannerz2007.htm) ny156uk (talk) 21:07, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the sculptor is Lotta Hannerz, the scuplture is located off one side of the Strömbron (steam bridge), which connects the old city Gamla Stan, to the Kungsträdgården (king's garden), in Stockholm. It also seemingly moves around or there are multiple copies as here is the nose and mouth in the Medici Fountain in the Jardin du Luxembourg in Paris. Cynical and Skeptical (talk) 00:49, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you thank you thank you!75.189.210.132 (talk) 03:20, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

husbands and wifes over 30 years apart in age
Is this possible for a wife to be 40 years older than a men, or is this a rarity. Basically 40 year-gap is men is 40 years older (ex. Robert and Grace Mugabe, Paul and Chantal Biya. Ahmad Tejan Kabbah and his second wife) like?--209.129.85.4 (talk) 20:18, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It is certainly possible, and it is likely a rarity. &mdash; Lomn 20:29, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm racking my brain for an example that would fit your age gap. Elizabeth Taylor and Cher both had relationships where they were 20 years old than their respective significant other (although Cher didnt marry her bagel boy) but thats the furthest apart I can remember. My own original research would say women don't have much interest in having a trophy husband. Livewireo (talk) 20:40, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * ...or could it possibly be that interested women don't have much success in acquiring a trophy husband, as men don't have much interest in being a trophy husband to a woman two or three decades older than they? Seriously, this F/M May-December couples may be more prevalent in cultures where male virility and fertility is prized by the numbers and so better served by taking much younger wives so that aging men can procreate for a prolonged period after an earlier wife is no longer fertile.-- Deborahjay (talk) 21:15, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I think there's a lot of complicating and intertwined factors. For example in nearly all cultures there are still fewer highly successful women then men. In many, the disparity is quite large (I noticed the Op's examples were all African). Even in places like Sweden where the gender gap is relatively low I would expect the number of highly successful females to be quite a lot lower then males. And 40 years is quite a large gap, even for males. While there are plenty of examples, many are less extreme and quite a number of the examples are from places and cultures where the gender gap is relatively high. Quite a number are probably polygyny but of course polyandry is a lot rarer Nil Einne (talk) 11:34, 24 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The record celebrity age disparity in marriage I found so far is 33 years for Martha Raye & Mark Harris. (I also thought of Harold and Maude :-) ---Sluzzelin talk  21:07, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Bruce Forsyths wife is 32 years younger than him, Michael Douglas is about 25 years older than his wife. I reckon out there there'll be a bigger gap, will have a bit more of a search (thought Brucie would be the winner but unfortunately not!!) ny156uk (talk) 21:12, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Tony Curtis's wife is 38 to his 84 - that makes for a 46 year gap. ny156uk (talk) 21:13, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I was only looking for younger man / older woman. Maybe I misread the question.---Sluzzelin talk  21:20, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * There was a news article just recently about a woman over 100 years old whose husband is in his 30s, she wants a divorce so she can marry somebody who will appreciate her. But I can't find any keywords to bring up that article.  Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 21:23, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * You're all forgetting the most highly publicized case of May-September romances in recent years. Anna Nicole Smith and whatshisname Marshall.  Dismas |(talk) 02:30, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * No, we were asked for cases where the wife was much older. --Anonymous, 04:44 UTC, September 24, 2009.
 * I took the grammatically poor "is men is 40 years older" as a second question asking for the reverse of the first question. Dismas |(talk) 06:19, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Celeste Holm was 85 years old when she married her fifth husband, Frank Basile, who was 41 years old at the time. So that's a gap of more than 40 years. - Nunh-huh 03:26, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * My grade school algebra teacher (a woman) introduced to the class the equation that the ideal age for a wife was 1/2 the husbands age plus 7 years. Some women have commented in recent decades that this equation is very favorable to the male of the species.


 * My grade school algebra teacher (a woman) told us of the equation that said the ideal age of a wife was 1/2 the man's age plus seven years, as described in Age disparity in sexual relationships. In other words, he should not date women younger than that. While in college, I dated a girl who was half a year too young by the formula, but it seemed to work pretty well. For a 20 year old, the girl should be 17 or older.  For a 30 year old, 22. A 40 year old guy should not date a woman younger than 27. A 50 year old should stick to those 32 and up, and a 60 year old should not date those under 37. In recent decades, women have remarked that this seems to favor the male of the species. For a 30 year difference the unique solution is: He is 74, she is 44. Edison (talk) 03:33, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd only encountered the more generalised (and non-sexist) version - as detailed in Edison's second link above - that it's "officially creepy" for someone of either any sex to sleep with someone younger than the formula specifies; obviously this also defines a reciprocal upper age limit for the older of the two eldest in the relationship. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 14:16, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Size of the bourgeoisie
In Marxist economics, what determines the relative population sizes of the bourgeoisie and proletariat? Neon Merlin  21:45, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

The determination of the two classes is one of a Capitalist society's wealth. Although there would be no definite figure, the proletariat would probably be proportionately bigger. One way of looking at this is in the percentages given in the novel '1984' in which 90% of the population were members of the proletariat. However this is a typical 19th and early 20th century view of the economic climate as the working classes became amalgamated into the Middle Class and the lines between what was Bourgeoisie and what wasn't became blurred. However in answer to the question, the only thing that would determine such figures would be a society's wealth, population size etc. This is pre-revolution of course, after the revolution society would be classless and there would be neither bourgeoisie or proletariat.

Stonerwars 01:07, 24 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Presumably Marx did not anticipate the rise of a large middle class. Regarding the presumed erasing of class lines in the Russian Revolution, I recall something Will Rogers said to Americans who complained about the income tax: "In Russia, they ain't got no income tax. But they ain't got no income!" →Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 06:35, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Marx covered the middle class under the awkward description petite bourgeoisie. The Marxist and more general sociological definitions of class differ, and Marxists would argue that there remains a substantial working class (even though some of its members may define themselves as middle class). Warofdreams talk 10:14, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Historical person obsessed with synchronizing clocks - request for references
I asked this question a week or two ago:
 * I vaguely remember a story about a person, I think a historical person, possibly a king, who in his old age spent most of his time trying to keep all the clocks in his palace/residence in sync. The story fits nicely into a presentation that I'm working on, if only I were able to remember who this person was. Does the story ring a bell with anyone?

Thanks to everyone who responded!

I knew who my source was (my 89 years old dad, an amateur, aficionado historian throughout his life). But I was reluctant to ask him, because I believed that he would be unable to remember the details, and I wanted to spare him the pain of facing his age-related loss of memory. Nevertheless, when I saw that the google-fu of myself and the rest of the RD-regulars was insufficient to solve the problem, I asked him. He was unable to answer directly, but gave me enough information about the time period and location to do a more targeted search, and I found that the person was Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, after his abdication in 1556. When I called my dad to tell him that his information had been sufficient to identify the person, he had remembered who it was too. The only mention of the story that I've been able to locate on the web, is this one: this one. I've checked with the history books that I have, which confirm that Charles V indeed had an interest in clocks, but they do not mention the synchronization story.

My question: I realize that the story may be apocryphal, but nevertheless, I would very much like references to sources which mention the story. So to anyone who would take a look in their bookshelf, and check it out, I'd be very grateful. Thanks. --NorwegianBluetalk 21:59, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The story may well be apocryphal - it's also possible that you've conflated two charles V into one
 * From "He spent much time, it is said, trying to make two clocks keep time with each other, and could not do it. At length, in despair, he cried out, 'I cannot even make two clocks keep time together, and yet I set myself to force a million souls to conform to one belief.' (Henrietta Elizabeth Marshall 'History of Germany')"
 * it might be worth researching Juanelo Turriano "1535 - 1538 - Juanelo Torriano makes clocks for Emperor Charles V."
 * Just to confuse things there's a different Charles V
 * "In 1370, Charles V of France gave an order that all clocks were to be set by the magnificent clock in his palace; he was the ruler of lands and now would be ruler of time. "
 * Also in another place the story is confirmed - it is said that Charles V tried to synchronise all clocks (of the realm presumably) the imperial clock, (also mentions may be a myth) sources Jacques Le Goff, and Gerhard Dohrn-Van Rossum (rebuttal)
 * The potential for confusion is definately there...83.100.251.196 (talk) 22:40, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Mein gott! - here's another quoted in non-historical paper "When Charles V retired in weariness from the greatest throne in the world to the solitude of the monastery at Yuste, he occupied his leisure for some weeks trying to regulate two clocks. It proved very difficult. One day, it is recorded, he turned to his assistant and said: “To think that I attempted to force the reason and conscience of thousands of men into one mould, and I cannot make two clocks agree!” (Havelock Ellis, The Task of Social Hygiene, Chapter 9)"
 * 83.100.251.196 (talk) 22:47, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

It now seems clear that what we need to do is synchronize our Charles V's! --Anonymous, 09:10 UTC, September 24, 2009.


 * Thanks a lot, 83.100! I see that there is indeed a potential for confusion. We have two Charles V's with an interest in clocks. Nevertheless, there's no doubt that my dad was referring to Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, and not to Charles V of France aka Charles the wise, who lived two centuries earlier, at a time when mechanical clocks had hardly reached infancy. Maybe this coincidence could have affected secondary sources themselves? Your sources Henrietta Elizabeth Marshall, "History of Germany" and Paul Krzyzanowski tell stories that fit well with the point that I would like to make, and I think I'll be pragmatically selective about my sources for the purpose of this talka. If anyone has access to authoritative sources that mention the story (whether it be Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor or Charles the wise of France), I'd love to hear about it. --NorwegianBluetalk 23:35, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * aI asked the original question because I wanted to use the story in a presentation that I'm working on. --NorwegianBluetalk 11:49, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

"Statues" in the water in Lake Washington
This is a picture of a "statue" in Lake Washington; there is one off each side of the Evergreen Point Floating Bridge (the "520 bridge"), on the west side of the bridge, close to Husky Stadium, of the University of Washington. What are these statues, why are they there, and who's the artist? Googling did find me the picture, but no information about it. Comet Tuttle (talk) 23:57, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * See this. Deor (talk) 00:04, 24 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:44, 24 September 2009 (UTC)