Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2010 August 16

= August 16 =

related by marriage
the wife and i have a child her sister has a child that would be cousins, my sister has a child that would make mine and my sisters child cousins,how are my sisters child and my wife sisters child related would that make them cousins horozontaly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rougher bob (talk • contribs) 02:29, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * They could think of each other as cousins, but they are not related by bloodline, only by marriage - UNLESS you and your wife have a traceable common ancestor. For example, in the 19th century and prior, marriage among cousins was common. So if you and your wife are first cousins, then your wife's sister and your sister would also be first cousins; which would make your child and your sister's child first cousins to each other; your child and your wife's sister's child first cousins to each other; and your sister's child and your wife's sister's child second cousins to each other. Got that? :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:42, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Your sister's child and your wife's sister's child are not "blood" first cousins in the usual sense (i.e. both descended from a common grandparent). I don't think that there's really a usual or accepted name for this in English, but it might possibly be considered a kind of  "step"-cousin relationship (i.e. substituting a marriage link in the first ascending generation in place of common ancestry, which is also the difference between a sibling and a step-sibling)... AnonMoos (talk) 02:49, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Cousin's cousin would be the neatest and most accurate way of putting it. --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   06:20, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * In many families they would never meet each other, and not even know of each other's existence. If they regularly meet at your house then they might come to think of each other as cousins, even though "cousin's cousin" is not a "real" (blood) relationship in terms of a "family tree".     D b f i r s   22:29, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * No, there's no common blood at all, but there's still a traceable connection, and "cousin's cousin" would be more accurate than just "cousin". Unless we're talking about societies like Australian indigenous communities, where "cousin" encompasses a far wider range of people than merely non-siblings who have one set of grandparents in common.  --  202.142.129.66 (talk) 01:36, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Carrier Strike Group: the exclusion zone
When a U.S. Carrier Strike Group is in the high seas (red or green), how large is the self-enforced surrounding area where no unauthorized ships and airplanes may enter? -- Toytoy (talk) 10:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

link between Octavia Hill and Frederick Leighton
Does anyone know how these two were linked?

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.207.148.180 (talk) 10:13, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, they were close contemporaries, and both were somewhat prominent in London society, so they could well have been acquainted. What reason do you have to think they were more specifically linked? Quiz question? (87.81 posting from . . .) 87.82.229.195 (talk) 11:15, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Octavia Hill and Frederick Leighton were both connected with The Kyrle Society, according to the results I got from searching on Google. 92.15.27.110 (talk) 20:45, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Husband/Wife teams in politics
Are Sonny Bono and Mary Bono Mack the only husband/wife pair to hold the same national political office? And before someone mentions them as an aside, I know about James Carville and Mary Matalin. Thanks, Dismas |(talk) 10:34, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, President of Argentina, is the wife of former (and preceding) president Néstor Kirchner. - Jarry1250 [Humorous? Discuss.] 10:56, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Still on Argentina, Isabel Martínez de Perón replaced Juan Perón, her husband. - Jarry1250 [Humorous? Discuss.] 11:01, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, and you may wish to include Catherine II of Russia, replacing her husband, Peter III in circumstances that separate it from, say, the joint then single reign of William and Mary. I am, of course, assuming you mean internationally rather than just the US. - Jarry1250 [Humorous? Discuss.] 11:07, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The first that came to mind were Senators Bob and Elizabeth Dole. Picking random examples from the Category:Spouses_of_members_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives gave me Elizabeth Hawley Gasque who succeeded her husband Allard H. Gasque. Another couple is Bill Paxon and Susan Molinari. I'm sure there are more in that category and there is also Category:Spouses_of_United_States_Senators. ---Sluzzelin talk  11:22, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Sonia and Rajiv Gandhi, both were President of the Indian National Congress. I guess it's debatable whether that can be counted as a political "office" though. ---Sluzzelin talk  11:27, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Mel Carnahan and Jean Carnahan come to mind. Also the Aquinos from the Philippines. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:30, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Careful with the last example: Corazon Aquino was never Senator and Benigno Aquino, Jr. was never President. ---Sluzzelin talk  11:35, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You're right. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:41, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If you're counting state governors, there were George Wallace and Lurleen B. Wallace. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 11:32, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * A little further afield, Solomon Bandaranaike and, after his assassination, his widow Sirimavo Bandaranaike, were both Prime Ministers of Ceylon. Sirimavo was the world's first female head of government; she was in power when Ceylon changed its name to Sri Lanka.   Their daughter Chandrika Kumaratunga also became President of Sri Lanka.  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   13:41, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Margaret Chase Smith became Maine's member of the U.S. House in 1940, succeeding her husband who had died in office. She was the seventh woman to serve in the U.S. Senate, but seems to have been the first elected to a full term. --- OtherDave (talk) 14:31, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Olympia Snowe & John R. McKernan, Jr., and Edward Mezvinsky & Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky, among many other congressional pairs. The Rhymesmith (talk) 19:29, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, if we're going below the national level, Bob and Ann Cryer have both been MP for Keighley. --ColinFine (talk) 20:36, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Both Jack Layton, the leader of Canada's New Democratic Party, and his wife, Olivia Chow, are members of Parliament from Toronto. Yes, they live together -- she doesn't live in her district. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:13, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, everyone. It seems it's not that unusual after all. Dismas |(talk) 04:38, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I disagree, actually. Given the vast number of people who've held national political office throughout the world for as long as such records have existed, and that's what's in technical scientific jargon known as "a lot", the instance of husbands and wives being involved is pretty infinitesimal.  What I'm waiting to see is a husband-husband or wife-wife pair holding political office.  --  202.142.129.66 (talk) 06:08, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of such an instance. Angela Eagle is a former British minister, and her civil partner Maria Exall is a political activist on the NEC of the Communication Workers Union, but they are clearly very different posts. Warofdreams talk 15:07, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I know of one such instance: Jennifer Liddle and Jenny Bailey, who were simultaneously councillors for the East Chesterton ward in Cambridge. Bailey went on to become mayor and Liddle was her mayoress. Marnanel (talk) 04:27, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * "The Two Jennies" :) Should be more of that sort of thing.  Thanks.  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   10:12, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Persian 'Ustad' (teacher)
Do Persian Jews still use the world Ustad to refer to their Rabbis? --Ghostexorcist (talk) 11:43, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Expulsion of the moriscos
Were the moriscos also expelled from Portugal as they were from neighboring Spain? --Belchman (talk) 12:08, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure of the details. Philip II was king of Spain and (later) also of Portugal (where he ruled as Philip I). There was a serious Morisco Revolt during his reign. The rebellion was crushed and the survivors were expelled. I presume that they were also expelled from Portugal. Flamarande (talk) 14:36, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Though at the time, Philip was King of Portugal as well as Spain (like Charles I being King of Scotland as well as England), the Moriscos of Portugal were not expelled: see introduction to Núñez Mulay, A memorandum for the president of the royal audiencia and chancery court of the City and Kingdom of Granada --Wetman (talk) 00:25, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you! --Belchman (talk) 11:12, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Weird, it seems that the expulsion of the Muslims of Portugal is one of the unclear historical issues. This book states that the Muslims were expelled by order of Manuel I of Portugal around 1496 (therefore before Philip). Manuel I is more (in)famous because supposedly one of the conditions of his marriage (to a daughter of Isabella and Fernando, rulers of Spain) was the expulsion of the Jews from Portugal. Flamarande (talk) 18:38, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting, thanks. --Belchman (talk) 10:54, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Car used for bombing FLQ
What was the name of the car that was used by the FLQ to kill the Quebec cabinet minister Pierre Laporte? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.150.73 (talk) 17:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but here's a picture of him in the trunk: . It was disguised as a taxi, so something taxi-ish, one assumes. --Sean 18:10, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This site says it was a Chevrolet. The link has a clearer picture from the side of the vehicle that could help car buffs identify the make and model, but it looks like an Impala circa 1968 to me. --Xuxl (talk) 20:31, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I also found this forum thread that claims it was a 1968 Chevrolet Biscayne, the tail lights being the main distinguishing feature. --Xuxl (talk) 20:44, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

more than dual citizenship
Is it illegal to have more than two citizenships? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.150.73 (talk) 17:07, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Depends entirely on the countries involved, but if they allow more than one citizenship then there's usually no restriction on three or more if they qualify. I know someone who was born in Northern Ireland and thus automatically has British and Irish citizenship, who has since naturalised as a Belgian citizen... -- Arwel Parry (talk) 17:16, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Citizenship of more than one state (Country) is OK, provided it is not outlawed by any one of the states. It is OK to be a citizen of the UK and Ireland at the same time as both states allow.  However, if the third state is one of those who forbid it then you have to pick which one you belong to and delete the others.   MacOfJesus (talk) 23:08, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

The reason I ask that question is because we have immigrants in Canada where they come from countries that Canada doesn't have an embassy in, like for example, we have people from Grenada and yet Canada doesn't have an embassy in Grenada. How can Grenadines come to Canada, then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.18.229 (talk) 14:30, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * While Canada does not have a resident embassy in many countries, there is always an accredited embassy which handles diplomatic relations with the country in question. In the case of St. Vincent and the Grenadines, it's the Canadian High Commission in Bridgetown, Barbados. Visas are issued in non-resident embassies all the time; if there is a high demand for visas, there is sometimes even a mechanism put in place to facilitate applications, such as a special courier service between a location in the country where there is no embassy and the embassy where the visas are issued. In the case of St. Vincent, the responsible Canadian visa office is in Port-of-Spain, Trinidad. Applicants can download application forms on-line and send these to the visa office through the mail. The web site of the Canadian High Commission to Trinidad and Tobago has more information; see here. --Xuxl (talk) 15:07, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Confusion alert: Grenada and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines are different countries. As are Dominica and the Dominican Republic.  The Caribbean seems to have a thing for this sort of thing.  Also, the demonym of Grenada is Grenadian; Grenadine is not the demonym of any people, as far as I'm aware.  The demonym of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines is Vincentian.  --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   08:32, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Can you identify this picture from my poor description, please?
My girlfriend has a stunning print on her lounge wall, that neither of us can identify. All I can do is say it looks Leighton-esque, as the luxury of the fabrics and skin tie in with Flaming June and other works, but it's not shown on his gallery here, nor in google images.

It's a sultry picture of a youngish lady, in a silvery gown, with a slightly blue sheen, wispy drapes of lace etc, sitting upright on a pale blue and silver banquette, which is visible behind her, and ending to her right. She faces us, although looks to the viewer's left shoulder, and has both arms up, seemingly clasping her blonde hair, which is tied back, behind her head.

All in all it smacks of Lord Leighton and his kin, and is definitely a quality image of that era - but I know nothing more, as I can't find anything like a signature.

I'm hoping you all can help... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theediscerning (talk • contribs) 17:08, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Could you upload a photo to Flickr or some other photo hosting service and post us a link? Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:53, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * This is a good place to look for it: http://www.artrenewal.org/pages/search.php 92.28.252.10 (talk) 22:47, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

It sounds like Expectations by Lawrence Alma-Tadema. 87.112.158.100 (talk) 07:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately that does not match all of the description given. There are lots of paintings that are partial matches. The blonde hair may be most distinctive, as black hair in the paintings is the norm. The blonde hair could indicate that it is a Pre-Raphaelite painting. 92.28.247.204 (talk) 09:09, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If lace is depicted, then lace is only known to have existed from the 14th. century. This would mean it was not something set in Ancient Greece or Roman times which Leighton and other painters are known for. 92.28.255.157 (talk) 19:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The nearest I have been able to find are Ianthe and Contemplation by John William Godward but neither of these match the description fully. A scan or photo please, or even just a sketch or tracing. 92.29.119.69 (talk) 22:59, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Well many thanks for all the suggestions, but as yet no soap. I've looked through the oeuvres of all mentioned and got nothing. Just as said girlfriend does not currently have a card reader or scanner.

It seems a classical portrait, and if I threw anyone with mentioning lace then I'm sorry - the gown certainly has diaphanous layerings to it. It's a closely cropped upright portrait, something like 14" and 24" tall in print. The classical suggestions continue with a green laurel band on her crown, and a marbled wall behind her, with something looking like a windowframe over her right shoulder. Said arm is at an angle that her right elbow points almost horizontally out of frame.

I shall endeavour to get it uploaded somehow, somewhen.

Stray cow problem in India
What could be reason for such stupid superstition ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jon Ascton (talk • contribs) 18:04, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * From the article: "The main cause of this problem is of course the religious belief among Hindus that cow is a sacred animal and under no circumstance should be killed." Or is there something else you had in mind? TomorrowTime (talk) 18:55, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * When I wrote the article the wording I used was "superstition" (the exact and justified term) not "religious belief" as it is now. Some hindu who felt insulted made the change. By all rights I should change it back (but that will result in a useless edit-war)  Jon Ascton    (talk)  03:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, I see you posted the same thing on the talk page as well. Perhaps a better way of putting your question would be: "Why is the cow considered sacred to the Hindu?", or is this not what you meant? TomorrowTime (talk) 18:57, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * If that is the question, see cattle in religion. -- k a i n a w &trade; 19:10, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I am uncomfortable with the wording of the question and, also, the asking of it. Disagreeing with religious beliefs is perfectly acceptable, but there's no need to deride them as "stupid superstition(s)". Given the fact that the user asking the question created the article in question... The Rhymesmith (talk) 19:31, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, Rhymesmith. I made this article, what's more I have [[Image:Animaleyeslightup.JPG|thumb|right|150px|A usual scene I see every day. The day I shot this pic only one gaumata was there. Usually there are two or three, it's morning when school-kids have to pass through. Usually one responsible adult has to be "on duty" to make sure they get through unhurt.]]first-hand experience of the problem myself. In fact the first image (top one) of a cow wandering about is the street where I live. For you it's academic inquiry, for me a practical problem ! When I get out of house, they impose a danger to me. At certain time of the year when the bull are in heat, they fight over cows. I have seen people spent months in hospital ( a cow is several hundred kilograms in weight .) Hence, the strong wording.  Jon Ascton    (talk)  02:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * On the other hand, it's not clear to me (or to Richard Dawkins) why society has decided there should be a mandatory, vocal respect for all religious beliefs, when other sorts of beliefs (including moral beliefs) don't have the same stature. Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:26, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The cattle in religion article mentions the religious reasons. The background for why these came about is here, though I don't know if it's a reliable source; cows were made unkillable because cows were valuable, and had to be saved from ritual sacrifice to save money. So it says. Vimescarrot (talk) 19:35, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The Link you have provided is not only not reliable source as you are (thankfully) already aware but its the usual Hindutvaist apologetic propaganda which no one should take at face-value. There are temples exclusively dedicated to cow. Just have a look at this please. The fact is that hindus are mad over the cow ! But educated (should I use that term ????? ) don't want to admit that ! Hindu mind is very complicated.  Jon Ascton    (talk)  02:40, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I have it on good authority that in Europe many homes are infested with African Wildcats, and that the natives feed and pamper them. What could be reason for such stupid superstition?  Or maybe posing such a loaded question is an example of ethnocentrism?  --M @ r ē ino 19:58, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * How about rodent prevention? Googlemeister (talk) 20:48, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * In which case, they shouldn't be pampered and stuffed with delicious food. Or kept in homes with no rodent problem. Nor bred so they can't leap and capture properly. Nor declawed (frankly, they shouldn't be anyway. D:). Nor given expensive veterinary treatment when they're ill, old and infirm. Clearly, the widespread practice of pampering pet cats has little to nothing to do with rodent prevention. 86.164.66.83 (talk) 01:30, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * That is, of course, not really the same; horny cats might keep you awake at night, but they're not going to trample you while you're walking down the street. Adam Bishop (talk) 05:44, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Merino has tried to imply the normalcy of the hindu obsession by providing a parallel that what hindus are doing is also happening somewhere else in world (African wildcat thing). I have given a link above to this page. There are several videos here where you will find a) Hindu holyman doing emotional appeal (by singing) to give cow more love, as if it were not enough. b) A sadhu giving a very unimpressive lecture in pseudoscience. He is telling us that cow is great because it's products milk etc. can solve "modern" problems like cancer and heart-disease which western medicine cannot. Drinking its urine (yes, many pious hindus do that including one former PM of India ) can save you from many troubles. c) A skit to educate people about importance of gaumata - when you die the angels of death will drag you across a river where a cow is waiting for you to help you cross it so better keep your relations with her fine !  Jon Ascton    (talk)  08:57, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * So what's the problem? Are you asking us to justify your prejudices against this phenomenon? --TammyMoet (talk) 11:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * No ! That won't help anyone. My concern is that people are overly sympathetic with this foolishness. Just imagine how harshly you would have dealt with such superstition in west. Is not India a part of world ? I'd also like to know what do you mean by "prejudices" ? Where are the prejudices ? Or perhaps you don't even know what this term means ...or maybe ya afraid that perhaps I'll also switch to ridiculing cat-lovers as I blackguard cow-lovers !!! LOL :) No, I love the guys who love their cats, believe me. Jon Ascton    (talk)  11:38, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid that the sole explanation for stupid superstitions like this one is human stupidity. --Belchman (talk) 11:20, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

"I knew he was a Commie because he didn't drink"
Where did the old stereotype that Communists don't drink come from? I thought the Russians were known for...um...warming up on a cold winter day with a shot of vodka, if you get my drift ;) 76.230.150.36 (talk) 19:23, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I have only heard that line as, "I knew he was a Commie 'cause he didn't drink Duff Beer", from the Simpsons episode "Duffless". In that context, the joke was more about advertisers willing to say anything to sell a product.  But if the phrase pre-dates that Simpsons episode, then I don't know. --M @ r ē ino 20:08, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * "Commie" was thrown around for exaggerated effect, in the old days, the way "Nazi" is now. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:12, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * This could be ironic sarcasm, the opposite being meant? MacOfJesus (talk) 22:07, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Can you provide us any references to it being used in context? The only place I find it on Google is in relation to the Simpsons. Or maybe in the (purposefully bizarro) bit in Strangelove where General Ripper claims that Communists don't drink water because of the fluoridation conspiracy. The Soviets did have a brief prohibition campaign, and many anti-alcoholism campaigns later, but the reason was because drinking was rampant, not because it was scarce. --Mr.98 (talk) 22:28, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I am not familiar enough with the humour, in context, to give a judgement. MacOfJesus (talk) 23:01, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Obviously Duff Beer is the archetypical mega brewery, as opposed to a craft brewery. A commie would prefer State-Beer-X over the capitalist conglomerate. schyler (talk) 00:25, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Back in the day, American communists didn't drink water, some said, because, as everyone knows, the commies were poisoning our water via fluoridation; see water fluoridation controversy. The belief was famously parodied in Dr. Strangelove, as mentioned above, and briefly mentioned in an episode of M*A*S*H. —Kevin Myers 00:32, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be most likely what The Simpsons were referencing. Many of their jokes are rooted in old cultural references, and you either get it or you wait for the next joke. "On no occasion will your Commie drink water; Vodka, that's what they drink - Vodka." And so on. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:01, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

WWII
I was recently listening to a speech given by Hitler in 1939, where he stated quite rightly that it was England that declared war on Germany. What he went on to state is what I would like to question. He said that England attacked Germany but that Germany being a peaceful nation did not retaliate for several weeks. So my question is, who fired the first shot in WWII, and, assuming it was England, how long was it before Germany made a retaliatory attack on England or English forces. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.89.16.154 (talk) 19:54, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The Germans fired the first shot of WWII, not on England or France, but on Poland. England and France had told them before hte invasion that if Poland was invaded a state of war would exist between them.--178.167.247.172 (talk) 19:57, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * That speech could also have been part of the German follow-up to Operation Himmler. In what seems like an exercise in absurdity to modern mindsets, the German government actually ran a very thorough propaganda campaign to convince people that for some reason the Polish armed forces had attacked Germany, and Germany was just reacting in self-defense.  Foreigners were not fooled, but since the German government had a strangle-hold on the flow of news, they actually were able to confuse their own citizens about the truth.  --M @ r ē ino 20:15, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * France finally told Germany that it would be war if Germany invaded France's ally Poland. Germany went ahead and invaded Poland, and then when the French delivered the declaration of war to the Germans, the Germans excitedly said "Then France is the aggressor."  The French diplomat said:  "History will be the judge of that."  Source:  Memoirs of the Second World War, by Winston Churchill, which I recommend as a readable history of the war.  But which I obviously don't have at hand, or I would be specific and not use the lame descriptor "diplomat".  Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:23, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Han shot first schyler (talk) 21:05, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for treating me like an idiot. I know Germany invaded Poland and was prewarned, and thus England declared war. That was not my question. You input was appreciated but misdirected, I want to know who attacked first between England and Germany, and if England, how long was it before Germany retaliated against England with an attack on English forces. Sorry for the sarcasm at the start but so often I see questions on here that are answered by various people going off on a tangent and discussing vaguely related topics. Thanks again —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.145.145 (talk) 21:21, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * From memory, I think UK shipping was attacked first; food supply routs.--(Sorry; routes, no pun intended).  MacOfJesus (talk) 21:39, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if you intended to be humorous, but a route is a course or path, whereas a rout is a military victory where the opponent is caused to flee in a disorganized fashion. That said, the goal of the Germans probably was to rout the UK food supply routes. -- 140.142.20.229 (talk) 18:22, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * That's a rude response considering that you said, "So my question is, who fired the first shot in WWII ...", which will obviously invite people to mention Poland. Back to the question: a German U-boat sunk the SS Athenia just hours after the UK declared war, but perhaps someone will be along to mention something earlier. You might also like to clarify what you mean by "fired the first shot" -- literally or figuratively -- as declaring war on Germany is obviously an act of war. --Sean 21:48, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Technically, Japan invaded China in 1933, which could be considered the start too. Googlemeister (talk) 13:27, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The SS Athenia, was a passanger ship, the article page explains.  MacOfJesus (talk) 22:00, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, it's a question of definition. I believe the RAF attack on the Admiral Scheer would be the first force-on-force engagement between the UK and Germany. --Sean 14:06, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Which by no means demonstrates that somehow the British "started it", which is what the OP seems to be fishing for. The way alliances work is that if you attack one, you've attacked them all. So it was the Germans who fired first, when they invaded Poland. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:59, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * He isn't suggesting htat Baseball bugs, stop being so over sensitive.--92.251.179.48 (talk) 18:24, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The question is not, who started it, but rather what were the aims of the sides involved, who the aggressor and who the defender. Today so many years ago:  "Never was so many...by so few...."  He was referring to all who benefited who live in a free world, (You and me).  (We owe so much..to them). (Also, we might add the few that defended China, and the East, often forgotten).    MacOfJesus (talk) 18:00, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Federal System
what are three reasons why Canada has federal system and explain why these three factors neccessitate the federal system of government? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.148.30 (talk) 23:58, 16 August 2010 (UTC)


 * First, how many points is this essay worth towards your mark?--Wetman (talk) 00:14, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

&mdash;  The Hand That Feeds You :Bite 13:24, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * You could start by reading our article Canadian federalism and then let us know if you have questions that our article doesn't answer. Marco polo (talk) 14:19, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I hope that the person who set the assignment didn't write "neccessitate" !  D b f i r s   18:24, 18 August 2010 (UTC)