Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2010 March 4

= March 4 =

Historic US census reports
Where can I find a list of historic US census information, for example, a list of the largest cities in the US following the 1790 census, etc.? Woogee (talk) 00:43, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * This list covers some of it, links to more detailed lists appear at the bottom of the page. Alexius  Horatius  02:22, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Awesome, thank you. Woogee (talk) 02:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

350000 Allied POW escapes in WW2
How many of the 350000 escapees succeeded in returning to Britain or other Allied territory? The number was 350000 according to this http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/wayoflife/12/05/mf.waropoly/index.html but it seems like too big a number - perhaps it was the total number of POWs. 78.146.198.226 (talk) 01:13, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Conquered subsuming conquerers
Are there any examples of a society or empire conquering other cultures, but ultimately becoming ruled by the conquered? If not actually ruled, utterly absorbed into the dominated cultured would also qualify in an answer. I don't mean conquerers overthrown, though.

I'm thinking that the Khans in China might qualify, but I'm not really clear there. Aaronite (talk) 01:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The assimilation of Greek culture into Roman society comes immediately to mind - Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit (Horace). See Roman Greece. Tevildo (talk) 01:56, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Though I'm no expert, I'd say the History of Great Britain could be seen in this light. The islands were repeatedly invaded and conquered by various outside forces, which invariably ended up separating from their mother nations/cultures/what have you. 218.25.32.210 (talk) 02:32, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Both the Mongols and the Manchus became much more sinified after overthrowing their respective enemies, and eventually did lose power. As they were then conquored by the Han, that would certainly qualify as being "conquered" by their former subjects. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * There is also Grand Duchy of Lithuania. In its later history many of the highest offices (Hetman, Chancellor etc.) were filled by Ruthenian nobles (for example, the ones from Sapieha and Chodkiewicz families). --Martynas Patasius (talk) 20:40, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * There's the Kievan Rus, a state formed by germanic Scandanavian people (the Rus' (people)) but which very soon became the nucleus of a slavic state from which modern Russian/Ruthenian states such as Russia, Belorussia, and Ukraine all decended. Also, during the Fall of the Western Roman Empire, many of the germanic states that were set up in former roman lands took on significant Roman character.  Thus the Franks that settled in Gaul came to speak a form of Latin (French) as did the Lombards in Italy (Italian) and the Visigoths in Iberia (Spanish).  So, as the Western Empire was conquered, the conquering peoples often quickly assumed significant "Roman" character (though often, with their own particular "germanic" spin).   -- Jayron  32  20:54, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Who coined "wild west"
Wednesday's edition of BBC Radio 4's literary quiz The Write Stuff claimed that the first recorded use of the phrase "wild west" was in Charlotte Brontë's 1849 novel Shirley. That phrase is indeed used in the novel, and with the present meaning. Can anyone find a reliable source that supports this claim of primacy? -- Finlay McWalter • Talk 01:53, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * This is a reference from the Jan 29, 1842 New-Orleans Commercial Bulletin. Woogee (talk) 02:41, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Try reading the article wild west —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ditreaium (talk • contribs) 11:01, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * That article does not contain the information requested. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 14:28, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Interesting that in the New-Orleans article linked above, "the Wild West" appears in italics, making it appear that it is the title of a play. I suspect the actor referred to is James Henry Hackett, but the article on him does not mention any titles that occur in the New Orleans article. (I had hoped I might find more about The Wild West if I found an article about "Mr Hackett"). I shall email The Write Stuff--ColinFine (talk) 19:11, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Shirley is the earliest citation for "Wild West" in the Oxford English Dictionary, undoubtedly the source of the quiz's assertion, but there are earlier examples available, so it isn't really true that this is the first recorded use. Google Books, for example, has it back to 1823.  John M Baker (talk) 23:16, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Take a look at the first item in the police blotter under the above-mentioned letter in the New Orleans newspaper. I guess New Orleans hasn't changed in 170 years. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:45, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting to see slaves in the classifieds, between the shirts, wine, and pianos... Tevildo (talk) 02:20, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Trans-Atlantic Telegraph Cables in World War Two
Why didn't the Nazis try to cut the transatlantic telegraph cables in the Second World War (specifically, the ones between the UK and North America)? (If they did, I've been unable to find an article on it.) It seems that since submarine cables break on their own often enough breaking one on purpose couldn't be that hard, and certainly the Germans must have known where the cables were -- it was common knowledge before the war (I assume). It seems to me that depriving the Allies of the ability to communicate via telegraph would have hampered their coordination and any attempt to re-lay a cable would have involved large, expensive, slow-moving ships in an ocean crawling with U-boats. The logic of this seems so clear to me that I can only imagine attempts were made and I didn't see the article (or it doesn't exist, or is part of a larger article) or I've missed something that made this much less enticing. 71.70.143.134 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:30, 4 March 2010 (UTC).


 * I don't know any specifics about WW2, but you're right to say that cutting cables was important in wartime. In WW1 the British cut the Germans'  telegraph cables early in the war, and reaped the benefit three years later when this led indirectly to the US joining the war on their side.  See Zimmermann Telegram or, for more detail, the book by Barbara Tuchman of the same title.  --Anonymous, 02:56 UT  (copyedited later), March 4, 2010.


 * By WWII, perhaps because of the WWI experience, that might not have been practical. First, the locations that were known were the onshore cable terminals.  These were very well defended.  See our article, for example, on Porthcurno, or this article on Rye, New Hampshire.  Away from the well-defended coastal waters around these terminals, it would have been difficult to find the cable on the murky bottom.  Also, the exact course of the cable was probably not known.  Remember that they did not have GPS.  Speculative underwater bombing or torpedoing offshore would have drawn attention.  We have to assume that even the offshore waters in the vicinity of these terminals were well patrolled.  Beyond the continental shelf, the cable would quickly descend into waters too deep for any German U-Boot, and bombing or torpedoing would be so random and ineffective as to be a waste of ordnance.  Finally, cutting the cables would not necessarily have been crippling, since coded wireless (radio) communications were possible.  Marco polo (talk) 03:02, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Exactly, diving&mdash;the only thing capable of taking out the cable short of taking out the cable terminals&mdash;wasn't exactly a perfected art at that time, and submarines wouldn't have been capable of deploying divers that deep. It might have been crippling though; could wireless communications reach across the Atlantic? — Ed   (talk  •  majestic titan)  03:56, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * A depth charge dropped onto the cable would sever it just fine. Googlemeister (talk) 14:21, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * According to Shortwave, the first transatlantic radio communication occurred in 1921, so I would think the answer to your last question is "Yes". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:18, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I should have known that already. I feel a little stupid here. :P — Ed   (talk  •  majestic titan)  04:38, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Wow, I had no idea that wireless could reliably transmit on that distance! Okay, so question answered then. (Let me point out, however, that the Great Eastern was able to find a cable on the seafloor twice in 1865, so it was definitely possible, and probably easier, in the 40's.) 71.70.143.134 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:15, 4 March 2010 (UTC).
 * You also should consider things such as bandwidth and communications security though. The cable probably would be better for both of those.  Googlemeister (talk) 16:19, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * There were some cable disruption activities, about the Atlantic cable wasn't a target, for a range of reasons. For those that were successful the activity that did it was attacking the shore terminal, not the cable.  There were a number of reasons for that, but the ability of the Axis forces to operate at will in the Atlantic was limited.  The area was far from crawling with U-Boats, which were very limited in their ability at the time anyway, and they were far more beneficially engaged in convoy disruption.
 * Noting the discussion above, the wireless and cable were complementary, not exclusive. Whilst loss of one or other could have been managed, it would have been a significant loss in capability.  A lot of logistical information was conveyed, as well as other significant data.
 * Military operations are always a trade off, there are never enough assets to do everything one wants to do, so there has to be some cost/ benefit analysis around how best to use what's available.
 * ALR (talk) 16:33, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Humanities
I wonder how popular the various humanties fields are compared to each other in North American universities. Does anyone know where I could find this information? -Pollinosisss (talk) 02:33, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Best I can find is a ranking of the top ten college majors from '06. Vranak (talk) 04:01, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Pornstar
Who is the person in this poster (not the people hugging [Not Ray Daniels Or The Girl]). I am not talking about the person who posted the picture.174.3.110.108 (talk) 03:39, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Please do not canvas responses from other areas of Wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ditreaium (talk • contribs) 11:00, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Second time the Sacred Cod went missing
I have been looking for more information on the second time the Sacred Cod of Massachusetts went missing to add to its page on wiki. My problem is I can only find one newspaper article about it, and there is nothing in EBSCO host from the time period. It went missing on about November 15, 1968 and was found about 3 days later behind a door in the state house. The Fish was also stolen in 1933 and that is what most of the information i have found is about. any help, articles, or more information on the second Cod-napping would be great. Thank you in advance!--Found5dollar (talk) 04:18, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I found this very brief AP article about the cod's return, from the Rock Hill Herald of November 19, 1968 (Google incorrectly dates it as Nov. 16). Also this slightly longer one from the Owosso Argus-Press of Nov. 18. There is also this article from the Hartford Courant of Nov. 16 which one has to pay to see. --Cam (talk) 05:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah I see from the article that you found the same AP story. Sorry I couldn't be of help.--Cam (talk) 05:29, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Is this "the piece of cod that passeth all understanding"? Alansplodge (talk) 18:04, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

two articles declined
When I tried to create two articles, they were declined. The first one was about the "I Love the Islands" concert series which benefitted the clean-up efforts following the earthquake and tsunami in Samoa. The other one was about the "Help Haiti Live" concerts which benefitted the relief efforts in Haiti. I got the needed information from all the reliable sources I could find. Now I feel hated.24.90.204.234 (talk) 06:52, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Making an article isn't simply a matter of finding three websites that mention an event (with one of them being the event's homepage). You need to find citations in respectable resources that make the claim that the event is notable.  Work on notability.  The rest is easy.  I had a very similar problem with the article Nude Bowl.  Initially, many people did not feel it was notable in any way.  I had to work - real hard - to find any references at all that demonstrated the notability of an empty swimming pool in the middle of the desert that was destroyed before the web was every popular. --  k a i n a w &trade; 07:03, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Why wouldn't they accept I Love the Islands? I see plenty of reliable sources./ Clarityfiend (talk) 07:44, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The reference desk is not the place to be asking about Wikipedia. Try the Help desk. DJ Clayworth (talk) 14:46, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't need to go through the AfC process. If you're interested in writing it yourself you can just sign up for a Wikipedia account, (It's free, spam-free, etc.) and create the page yourself. See here : Your_first_article APL (talk) 16:09, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

life of himba tribal women
hi there i was reading the article on himba tribe.my question is if their women generally wera no clothings,how do they manage their menstural cycle?

thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.161.133.55 (talk) 10:19, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * There is an article on Himba, conveniently located at Himba. I strongly suggest you read that article for all your questions, and return only if there is a specific part you still do not understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ditreaium (talk • contribs) 10:58, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * You may be interested in Culture_and_menstruation. That article says that hunter-gatherers rarely menstruate, but does not explain this assertion. My understanding is that this refers to late menarche and lengthy breastfeeding, which suppresses ovulation. In addition, menstruation (i.e. fertility) stops when a woman's percentage of body fat drops below a certain level. This can be either because of muscular athleticism or borderline starvation, both of which are more common among hunter-gatherers than in the sedentary Western world. Some of these factors may feature in the lives of the Himba. BrainyBabe (talk) 20:50, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Although it is not a scholarly article, Malcolm Gladwell of the New Yorker wrote an acclaimed (and i would say brilliant) article in 2000 about the fascinating and complex relationship between contemporary society, menstruation and a woman's life-cycle. The article is available online here. hfeatherina (talk) 16:30, 4 March 2010

what influenced hitler (esp when hes young) to be so anti semtic?
--59.189.218.53 (talk) 11:09, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

he was responding to market forces. He really wanted power, probably due to the powerlessness he felt as his father beat him to within an inch of his life in his youth. His racism was just one expression, but he would have abandoned it pretty fast if it had not so happened that his German compatriots, though he had to move to Munich for it, responded quite nicely to it. There is shocking racism in Germany to this day, and if the German state and young people who have internalized the 12 years of education on this subject that they receive in state schools, didn't squash it with extreme excesses of force and rhetoric, it would be trivial for a person of Hitler's mentality to gain adherents to this day. In fact, despite the crushing repression of and counter-education against it by the govenrment and in schools, it is nevertheless extremely easy for a neo-Nazi leader to gain adherents. Just search Google News for Germany neo-Nazi. Naturally this is only just my opinion, and others here can give a differing opinion. In my humble opinion the others ones are underinformed, but they are free to be made below. 84.153.250.71 (talk) 11:57, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Speaking of blue-skying (see below), supposing Hitler's father had gone that extra inch, isn't there a good chance someone else would have taken Hitler's place as a hatemonger and warmonger? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * probably not. 84.153.250.71 (talk) 12:44, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Why not? He found a ready audience for his scapegoating. Someone else could have done likewise. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:17, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I would think so. After all, Hitler wasn't the founder of the Nazi party, it already existed.  He brought some excellent public speaking skills to the Party, but also made some epic military blunders.  Another leader might have avoided those. StuRat (talk) 01:55, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The question of "Would the Nazis have come to power and would WWII have happened if Hitler had never been born?" extremely deep and ultimately unknowable question, and versions of it has been debated for centuries in the philosophy of history. It's called the Great Man theory, and it applies to lots of other things besides Hitler. Would Macedonia have conquered as much territory if it hadn't been for Alexander? Would the Roman Empire have lived longer if it had better emperors? Would it have survived at all if there had been no Augustus? Is the Great Man the product of the society he's in, or is the society changed by the Great Man? Ultimately, it's impossible to answer such questions because we don't have the ability to experiment with history. Belisarius (talk) 18:52, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * A passage from our article reveals this bit of information, which I find compelling and formative:
 * After Alois' [his mother] sudden death on 3 January 1903, Hitler's behavior at the technical school became even more disruptive, and he was asked to leave. He enrolled at the Realschule in Steyr in 1904, but upon completing his second year, he and his friends went out for a night of celebration and drinking, and an intoxicated Hitler tore his school certificate into four pieces and used it as toilet paper. When someone turned the stained certificate in to the school's director, he "... gave him such a dressing-down that the boy was reduced to shivering jelly. It was probably the most painful and humiliating experience of his life
 * Adolf is now angry at the world at looking for a scapegoat. Vranak (talk) 15:30, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Having thought about this more over breakfast, the crucial factor, I believe, is lack of compassion. Right when young Adolf would benefit from some benevolent, fatherly treatment from his school's director, he instead receives the sort of harsh upbraiding that no one young person can benefit from. Of course we are talking nearly a century ago, so this sort of retrospective analysis misses out on the general climate of the times, where perhaps everyone is walking wounded and not able to muster much compassion. Vranak (talk) 17:05, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Hitler came of age in a profoundly anti-Semitic environment. Anti-Semitism was pervasive in Germany and Austria during the early 20th century. See Antisemitism in Europe and Dolchstosslegende, for example.  Whether by nurture or by nature, Hitler had a resentful, vindictive personality. People with such personalities coming of age in Germany or Austria at that time found in anti-Semitism an object and scapegoat for their resentment and anger and a way to give it political expression. Given the wide appeal of Nazi anti-Semitism, Hitler was not unusual in his hatred. Hitler's unique talents were his charisma and his ability to harness that hatred as a vehicle for gaining political power.  Marco polo (talk) 17:53, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * People also forget that there were violent communist and anti-communist riots in Germany after WWI. Rightly or wrongly, people associated communists with Jews, and if you hate communists, it's not such a large step to hate all Jews. (It's not that simple of course, but that's another aspect of what was going on.) Adam Bishop (talk) 22:03, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, but if the issue was that some Germans were violently opposed to communists, then the response would be to persecute communists regardless of their religion. Certainly, the Nazis did persecute communists.  But they also persecuted Jews, regardless of their political orientation.  This cannot be explained by anti-communism.  It can only be explained by anti-Semitism.  Marco polo (talk) 03:14, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Certainly there was something wildly pathological about Hitler's obsession with "blood." And "purity."  And "race."  To the simple-minded street brawlers Hitler initially attracted (and the sophisticated scum urging them on), Jews became a metaphor for contamination of blood and purity.  Racist Americans are notoriously obsessed with the same concepts, as shown in their paranoia about so-called "miscegenation" and the "mongrelization" of the (idiotically defined) "white race."  Looking for a culprit who had somehow prevented the "Aryan" "master race" from achieving world domination (or winning world war I, or not going broke afterwards), Hitler and his ilk could not blame "Germans" as a group; thus they defined Jewish Germans as "non-German" ... and non-EVERYTHING, as the metaphorical agent of contamination in all supposed "pure" racial groups during the diaspora.  Somehow Jews (historically middle eastern) were seen as different from every other group of immigrants during the preceding 1900 years -- perhaps because they had a great tradition of education and responsibility, which meant that they were disproportionately successful, and thus suspect to to the often ignorant and irresponsible "pure Aryan" masses. That's my conclusion after 20-plus years of reading about it, anyway: a megolomaniacal demagogue's pathology about blood and purity merges with the need for a scapegoat (following The Economic Consequences of the Peace) among ignorant and violent nationalists. 63.17.65.254 (talk) 05:30, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Hitler was heavily influenced by Martin Luther. Almost everything the Nazis did was suggested or discussed by Luther in his work On the Jews and their Lies.  DRosenbach  ( Talk 06:14, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Was it because he was rejected from art school by someone Jewish? Or wasnt the guy Jewish? 89.243.198.135 (talk) 19:31, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

"Blue-skying"
What is blue-skying? 84.153.250.71 (talk) 12:42, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Engaging in speculation that comes "from out of the clear blue sky". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:01, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Or a reference to Blue sky thinking? That is thinking about things in a 'perfect world' mindset where you don't stop constraints preventing you thinking through an idea. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 14:50, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * You may also want to try blue sky law -- in that context, it means "verifying whether an investment transaction or securities issue complies with the blue sky laws" --71.111.229.19 (talk) 21:34, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

See thefreedictionary.com/blue-skying —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dataport676 (talk • contribs) 21:32, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

aerocraft
What is 477 in boing 477? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mianurag (talk • contribs) 19:06, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the Boeing 747 or Boeing 474? Rmhermen (talk) 19:15, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Assuming you mean the 747 in Boeing 747, its part of Boeing's numbering system for its jumbo jet series, known as the Boeing 7x7 series. Boeing does not actually make a jet with the 477 designation, so I will assume you meant the more famous 747. The first jet in the series was the Boeing 707, and they are basically numbered sequentially in order they were developed. It has no other, deeper meaning than that. -- Jayron  32  19:16, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * This Boeing page goes into detail about why the 7x7 numbering scheme exists. Some engineers (figures!) picked different numbering segments for different types of aircraft; the commercial jets would be named starting with the number 700; but the marketing department decided "707" was catchier than "700".  Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:42, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I just added a corresponding section to the Boeing 7x7 series article. Thanks for asking the question.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:51, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Henry Darger
Are there any published books or other sources where I can read some of the artist's fiction? I know there are books about him (I just watched the movie about him), but I'm very interested in his actual prose, particularly about the Vivian Girls. Thanks! ? EVAUNIT 神になった人間 19:18, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Try Amazon.com, there are several of his books listed there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dataport676 (talk • contribs) 21:28, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

What is "vulgar Marxism?"
What is "vulgar Marxism?" What does that term mean, or refer to? Thanks in advance. Bus stop (talk) 20:51, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Vulgar Marxism is an existing redirect to an article which will answer your questions. -- Jayron  32  20:57, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. I didn't see that. Bus stop (talk) 21:08, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * (e/c) Marxist philosophy might be a better resource. the 'vulgar' in vulgar marxism implies a kind of less theoretical marxism based in pure economic determinism. western philosophical Marxists (and arguably Marx himself) tend to dismiss it as overly simplistic, in favor of more strongly psychological or sociological formulations.  -- Ludwigs 2  21:10, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The word "vulgar" is probably being used in the sense of being frequent, rather than low-class. 89.243.198.135 (talk) 21:07, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * (OR:) I've always taken vulgar in such contexts to mean 'crude; without advanced understanding of important subtleties'. —Tamfang (talk) 21:40, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Vulgar's older meaning can also derive from "common", it was originally a term without perjorative, as in the Vulgate bible, literally "The commonly used bible". The term "vulgar" to mean "classless" or "rude" or "in poor taste" comes from the negative association with "commoners" (i.e. peasants, or "vulgar" people; not the upper class).  The term may have more connection to Marxism's goal of a classless society rather than any meaning of "less than perfect" or "crude".  -- Jayron  32  00:56, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

LGBT issues in Iran and Saudi Arabia
I cannot understand something, in those countries where homosexuality is highly illegal, I mean, is it illegal to be gay or to practice homosexuality?. Example, if someone says "I am gay" in any of those countries, is that illegal and punishable by death or that person must have been engaged in homo sex? --SouthAmerican (talk) 22:03, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * See LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia and LGBT rights in Iran. Over-generalizing a little, in both countries, engaging in "immoral behaviour" (such as attending a meeting of gay men) will earn you a flogging - only engaging in sodomy itself carries the risk of a capital sentence, although an unsubstantiated confession is sufficient evidence; and the authorities of both countries have been known to employ fairly - direct - methods to obtain confessions when they want to. The main difference is that transsexuality is legal (if socially condemned) in Iran, but not in Saudi. Tevildo (talk) 22:40, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I always thought that "LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia" should be a blank article [[Image:SFriendly.gif|20px]] AnonMoos (talk) 13:19, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Or an example of an oxymoron. --   Jack of Oz    ... speak! ...   22:13, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The OP asks about "those countries where homosexuality is highly illegal" and whether it is "illegal to be gay or to practice homosexuality." One "Akrabbim" found it necessary -- on this rigidly formal desk which never, ever contains a spare or needless syllable -- to delete my entirely relevant response, which was as follows:  "In the USA until 1987 (the Bowers decision), it was illegal to engage in some homosexual practices in many states ... not so long ago for the land of the free and the home of the brave, the city on a hill setting an example for freedom loving people everywhere."  This answer relates to both the predicate of the question and the question itself, with (respectively) "Oh, you mean like the USA prior to 1987," and "Yes."  I mean, PLEASE. 63.17.82.123 (talk) 03:11, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * My memory played a trick. I meant Lawrence (which overruled Bowers), and it was 2003.  So, "Oh, you mean like the USA prior to two thousand freakin' THREE?" and "Yes." 63.17.82.123 (talk) 04:40, 6 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, 63, I would support the removal of your soapboxing, because it violates a Wikipedia policy; see WP:SOAP. Comet Tuttle (talk) 06:59, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Have you ever READ these desks? Again: PLEASE. 63.17.52.111 (talk) 10:27, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I would note that according to HRW, there's limited evidence that executions solely for consensual homosexual acts are common in Iran. Many widely published cases either involve other crimes or in many cases the acts don't seem to be consensual (Iranian law doesn't really distinguish if the acts were consensual but often when the facts emerge, they suggest the acts were not consensual.) It's possible there are many unpublished cases or that the evidence of the cases is untrue and undoutedly executions solely due to consensual homosexual acts but it's definitely not clear it's routine. See for example. Nil Einne (talk) 15:58, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Educating Esme
I need to read part of a book called "Educating Esme: Diary Of A Teachers First Year" for a class. However my book has not arrived yet because the teacher is making us all order it from Amazon.com.

I thought there was a place where you could read an overview of different books online? I found a thing called sparknotes, but all sites which have it force you to pay. Does anyone know where i can read a summary of the book for free? I just need to know the general content for the first 70 or so pages, since my book will arrive from amazon this weekend. Thanks!

137.81.112.201 (talk) 23:57, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Why cant you wait till the weekend? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.68.242.68 (talk) 01:02, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * That's really none of your business. The OP wants to know how to find it now.  That's what we're here for - to help him do that, not quibble or challenge his very question.  Sheesh.  --  202.142.129.66 (talk) 01:50, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Your teacher should not make you buy it from Amazon. You should be free to buy wherever you want or to borrow it from the library.  Your teacher probably provided a link that ensured they make money.  This is unethical.  Report the teacher to your school's administrators (or have your parents do so or send an anonymous note). --Nricardo (talk) 02:32, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I would like to know if the student knows why the teacher had them order it from Amazon. It's unclear who's paying. If it's the student, it's not the teacher's concern where it's coming from. But if it's being ordered on behalf of the school, it's possible the school has a special rate - which they might anyway, even if the kids are paying. More info is needed before filing an ethics complaint. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:53, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

It is simply that if i purchase it from amazon it would be cheaper than through the university book store. However, it is a stupid thing because i cant even get the book in time for our first assignment.

Back on the topic please. Does anyone know where i can get an overview of the book?

137.81.112.201 (talk) 12:09, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Amazon lets you read some of the pages here. You can read lots of reviews of and articles about the book here. Also, have you tried the college library (someone else may have gotten there first) as well as the town public library? My public library also indexes books in all the neighboring communities, and could tell me that a library 10 miles away had the book on the shelf available for checkout, even if the local copy is checked out. Edison (talk) 15:19, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Contrary to popular opinion (at least among students) teachers are rarely either dumb or cruel. If you did what you were asked by your teacher, and are unable to complete your assignment on time for reasons outside your control, then I would simply tell your teacher that. Tell them ahead of time so it doesn't look like you are making an excuse. They will probably give you an extension. On the other hand if your reason of "because the teacher is making us all order it from Amazon.com" includes an element of "and because I waited several days before doing that" then you've learned an important life lesson. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:55, 5 March 2010 (UTC)