Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2010 November 30

= November 30 =

Cables about Chinese diplomats
Do the most recent batch of Wikileaked classified cables mention anything about Chinese diplomats? --Ghostexorcist (talk) 01:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Wikileaks cables reveal China 'ready to abandon North Korea'. This is from 'leaked US Embassy cables' though, rather than Chinese diplomats. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:44, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Our article on the "diplomatic cables leak" has a "People's Republic of China" section.
 * The Wikileaks site itself displays a graph of number-of-cables by each embassy-of-origin. Taiwan and Beijing are shown as the ninth and twelfth, respectively, embassies having sent the most cables (of those obtained by Wikileaks), and Tokyo is ranked fourth – so, yes, it seems likely that mention of Chinese diplomats occurs in this batch of documents.  Wiki Dao  &#9775;  (talk)  04:49, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * CBC News has an article today about China and the recent Wikileaks release, which says eg.:
 * "In another leaked U.S. document, China's vice-foreign minister He Yafei is quoted as saying North Korea was acting like a 'spoiled child' trying to get the attention of the adult — the United States — by carrying out missile tests in April 2009." (China frustrated with North Korea: WikiLeaks)
 * Wiki Dao &#9775;  (talk)  14:52, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Conservative vs. Liberal states of United States of America
I was taking the Canadian politics, we learned that Canada is divided into two. The Western Canada is conservative and Eastern Canada, including the Atlantic are liberal. I want to that which states of all 50 states are liberal and which states are conservative? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.29.32.248 (talk • contribs) 03:45, 30 November 2010


 * That's extremely simplistic for Canada; actually I could state even more strongly that it is just completely untrue. If you are expecting a similar answer for the US (like, the north is liberal, the south is conservative) it will be just as simplistic and untrue. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * For starters, see red states and blue states. As Adam says, it's an oversimplification. —Kevin Myers 03:28, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict with Kevin Meyers) As a first order approximation, look at this map. This is from the 2008 presidential election, and demarcated by county.  Obviously it's a gross oversimplification to use the Obama-McCain axis as a proxy for a liberal-conservative axis (whatever that means), but it's better than nothing.  It also doesn't take into account population, so that makes it harder to correlate it to number of people.  Another visual representation is this map of the 2010 house of representatives results.  I'm not sure what the different shades represent, but it's a decent visual representation.  In extremely general terms, rural areas are more likely to vote Republican, and urban areas Democrat.  Additionally, the Northeast is commonly regarded as more liberal (and indeed, more likely to vote Democrat), while the South (Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama especially) is regarded as more conservative, and indeed, are more likely to vote Republican.


 * In all cases, though, there are sub-regions (often cities) that vote opposite the way the rest of the immediate surrounding do. And there are also different factors that determine why someone votes Democrat vs. Republican.  The Religious right (Jerry Falwell, for example) will vote for Republicans due to their conservative social platform, while proponents of Economic liberalism (like Milton Friedman) will vote for Republicans due to their (comparatively) hands off stance on the economy.  Opposite stances apply to the Democrats, and many other factors come into play as well. Buddy431 (talk) 03:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * And there are plenty of right-wing Democrats, especially at the state level. In many cases, southern Democrats are completely indistinguishable from Republicans. However, the opposite, left-wing Republicans, are vanishingly rare even in places like New England. L ANTZY T ALK 03:53, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the Canadian thing is totally wrong. A more accurate generalization is, as in the United States, of a bicoastal liberalism bookending a right-wing interior, which is itself freckled with islands of urban liberalism (e.g. Austin, Texas). In Canada, there's also the complication of Quebec. And in the United States, there are significant cultural, religious, and political differences between the south and the inland west, although both are lumped together as right-wing. Specifically, the western United States is significantly less religious than the east, and therefore less right-wing in the "social" sense. L ANTZY T ALK 03:50, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * It isn't really accurate that the western United States is less religious than the east. For example, Utah (in the West) is much more religious than, say, Connecticut (in the East).  The Northeast in general is less religious than the interior West or the Great Plains states.  A more accurate statement would be that the west coast is less religious than the South or the Midwest.  Marco polo (talk) 18:35, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Just to be clear here, in U.S. terms, Canada is mostly liberal. Even western Canadians have views that would be considered liberal or moderately liberal in the U.S. political spectrum.  For example, the "conservative" Canadian prime minister, Stephen Harper, supports universal health care and a number of other social programs that no Republican in the United States would support.  Marco polo (talk) 18:35, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Most of you say that Canada is liberal but it is not true because the reason the person ask the question is because Alberta is most considered as conservative and Ontario is most liberal and recent mayoral elections in Calgary and Toronto made headlines across the country. Calgary is conservative and yet people decided to choose a liberal as a mayor and Toronto is the opposite. I am a Canadian and I also believe that Western Canada is conservative and Eastern Canada is liberal. I have seen that a lot Liberal Party MPs in the house of commons were elected from Eastern Canada and same thing with NDP MPs, while the Conservative Party MPs were elected from Western Canada.


 * I didn't say that Canada is liberal. I said that in U.S. terms, Canada is liberal.  Canadian criteria for what is liberal are different (simplistically, further to the left) than those in the United States.  I made this point because the person who asked the question appears to be from the United States, so I thought it made sense to put this in a U.S. perspective.  Of course, I agree that from a Canadian perspective, parts of Canada are (relatively) conservative.  Marco polo (talk) 20:12, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * California is considered a blue state, every single statewide office in the 2010 election went to a Democrat. But in fact, California is divided into blue counties and red counties, the blue counties being most (but not all) of the coastal counties, the red counties being most (but not all) of the inland counties.  The blue counties are the largest, population-wise, which is why the Democracts dominate politics in the state.  Corvus cornix  talk  22:28, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Here's the result of a state-by-state poll asking people if they are conservative or liberal:. The most-conservative states are Wyoming, Mississippi, Utah, South Dakota and Alabama. The most-liberal places are D.C., Rhode Island, Connecticut, Vermont and Massachusetts. Generally, the "liberal belt" of America is in the heavily populated Northeast, the West Coast, and Colorado, while the "conservative belts" are the Deep South, the Mormon West and the northern plains. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:01, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Except for Minnesota, in general, which is usually liberal but is becoming increasingly conservative.  Corvus cornix  talk  05:53, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Dave Foley once said on a talk show (either Letterman or Leno) that his native Canada "is so liberal we make Castro look like a Republican." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:42, 1 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, if you're going to be frivolous about it, I could point out that, compared to Canada, Castro is a republican. Canada is a constitutional monarchy, and Cuba is not, because Castro did not want it to be a monarchy. So Castro is a republican, when compared with Canada. 86.161.109.130 (talk) 09:23, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * No. Castro is not a "Republican". He may be a "republican" in the same way Hitler and Mussolini were "elected" officials of their "republics", but he isn't any closer to George W. Bush than he is to Abraham Lincoln. There are a few other Constitutional monarchies that I'd imagine the IP is familiar with, if you're going to be frivolous about it. Shadowjams (talk) 09:25, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * In any case, I'm pretty sure Cuba was a republic before Castro came along... L ANTZY T ALK 20:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't find it useful to use blue vs. red states to describe US politic. The best book I ever read about Canadian and American politic was Nine Nations of North America

'Incoming!' 'To arms!' and other such cries
I need a list of military calls - the sort of things a sentry will shout when suddenly under attack, or the perimeter is breached - US Marine or British Navy would be best, thanks. Adambrowne666 (talk) 03:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The General Orders for Sentries page isn't very helpful on this point. The US Marines' version is here. It seems remarkably similar to the one on the UK Armed Forces website. Surely a typo - "To salute all officers not cased."? In old British war films, they tend to shout "Call out the guard!" if memory serves. Alansplodge (talk) 15:32, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * No typo, the "not cased" refers to colors and standards and means basically "unfurled".--Rallette (talk) 18:00, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes but it should say "all officers and colours not cased", not "officers not cased"! Alansplodge (talk) 15:41, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The cliched responce to seeing someone emerging from the fog is to shout: "Halt! Who goes there, friend or foe?" "Friend". "Advance, friend". "Fix bayonets" is another movie cliche prior to an infantry charge. 92.28.247.40 (talk) 18:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * from the US Navy (1866) says the officer of the watch was to "inform the Commander of all suspicious movement," which might contraindicate a sentry or lookout doing a lot of general yelling, to allow more of an unexpected response to the approach of enemy boats, rather than letting the enemy know they have been spotted. An officer might issue the order "All hands on deck!". US navy: "Prepare to repel boarders!" and "Repel boarders!". This would not be up to the lookout on duty. "Boat ahoy" is listed as a look-out's hail. page 96: "Enemy" is another verbal signal if an appoaching boat fails to respond with the correct countersign when challenged."Boat ahoy?" is still listed in a US 2005 book: . 1870 British army sentry challenges and responses are at . Verbal signals were probably improvised by infantry in the US Indian Wars of the late 19th century, the US  suppression of the Phillipine rebels in the early 20th century, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and more recent conflicts, wherein local forces often tried to infiltrate US or other major power bases or encampments to set off satchel charges or generally to kill the superpower forces, and where there were not trenches and fronts as such. A sentry seeing such an infiltrator might yell some epithet unique to the conflict to alert his comrades to the attack, like "Redskins!" "Krauts!" or "Charlie!"  "Edison (talk) 00:17, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, all - not quite what I'm looking for, though - I might have to do some real work - it's my fault for including military matters in my fiction when I don't know the first thing about the military Adambrowne666 (talk) 22:13, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Can someone find a better reference?
a previous version of this question is now on the talk page

On Nov. 18 an article at Guardian.co.uk, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange wanted by Interpol over rape case, quotes Julian Assange's lawyer as saying "Both women have declared they had consensual sexual relations with our client and that they continued to instigate friendly contact well after the alleged incidents. Only after the women became aware of each other's relationship with Mr Assange did they make their allegations against him."

What I am asking for here is a better reference saying the same thing: i.e. one not from his lawyer! Does anyone have a reference to official Swedish announcement with the same effect? Or another source confirming that this is the specific charge? Thank you. 82.234.207.120 (talk) 08:27, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If this is about editing our article(s), then The Guardian is a good-enough source for the news story. The Guardian journalists were at liberty to consult Interpol, the Swedish court documents, and also had the interview with Assange's lawyer. If they didn't include much detail at this stage it was probably because their estimate is that this is very much an open case and could evolve in various ways over the next days or weeks. Itsmejudith (talk) 09:56, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That is a VERY big stretch. If the only reference anyone can dig up to the actual charge the one above by the defendant's lawyer, then so be it.  I think we have some very good researchers here, however, and I think someone can find a better reference than the lawyer of the accused.  I believe in you guys. 86.212.63.241 (talk) 10:28, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The Washington Post back in August had more detail, but a link within it has gone dead. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:23, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Re. "I believe in you guys" – well we believe in you, too, 86.212.63.241! :)
 * May I suggest at this point that you read our article on this topic? I think it discusses this question fairly well, and provides many good links to sources.  If you can find any better sources, though, please by all means work the information in them into the article yourself!  Thanks,  Wiki Dao  &#9775;  (talk)  15:26, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

China blockade
China blocked shipments of rare earth minerals going to Japan because the country had detained one of its citizens. Considering electronics is a major industry in Japan, this could have seriously hurt their economy if it was a long term blockade. Could China do the same thing to us? I'm not just talking about rare earth material either. What could they withhold that would hurt our own economy? Outsourcing? --Ghostexorcist (talk) 11:15, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * By 'us', I take it you mean 'US' in capitals? You might like to take a look at this to see what is traded between the two countries. Electronics appears to be on the top of most of those lists, too. It also mentions that the US is China's top trading partner - I am not sure if the situation is mutual, though. --  KägeTorä - (影虎)  ( TALK )  12:29, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * China has by far the largest reserves of rare earths in the world. However, the United States has the second-largest mine at Mountain Pass, California, a facility which has been non-operational for many years.  Sometime in mid-2011 it should be coming back online, which will ease supply shortages; presumably the capacity of the mine will be sufficient for both the U.S. and other countries affected by any Chinese export restriction.  I don't know if there are other strategic materials that only China has.  Supply shortages would drive up the price, which of course would make Molycorp Inc.'s mine more profitable when it eventually starts shipping. Antandrus  (talk) 17:26, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Of course many consumer goods are no longer made in the United States. In a scenario of conflict with China, an export embargo on China's part would lead to shortages of certain consumer goods.  For many of these, however, there are alternative suppliers, mainly in other Asian countries.  More critically, China may be the sole supplier of certain critical electronic components, a lack of which could cripple a military effort on the part of the United States.  I would expect that U.S. military planners are now scrambling to arrange for domestic supplies of any such components. As Antandrus has noted, security planners in the United States are now very focused on the rare-earth issue and are working to support the development of domestic and other reliable supplies. Marco polo (talk) 18:28, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Is this likely to be a spur to more recycling of components? Itsmejudith (talk) 18:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I would expect so -- particularly things like the battery in the Toyota Prius, which used 10 to 15 kg of lanthanum and 1kg of neodymium per vehicle. (I think the current models have gone to a lithium-ion battery.)  If the price of rare earths becomes high enough, recycled components become like a high-grade ore in that it's a lot easier, and environmentally less messy, to extract rare earths from cast-off electronics than from strip-mined rocks (where the byproducts include radioactive waste among other things). Antandrus  (talk) 21:07, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * When the supply dries up, ingenuity will find a way. One example is the rubber shortage during WWII, which led to the development of artificial rubber for use in tires, etc. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)


 * By the way, it's not actually legally a "blockade" (which is an act of war under international law). AnonMoos (talk) 13:05, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Government Grants
I have been trying to find the government grants for businesses and the purchasing of homes. When I do research on the Web I seem to be taken to sites that just want your money. I need help with finding the true source for such grants. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Berthanna (talk • contribs) 15:32, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You'll have to tell us which country/region you're asking about. Ka renjc 15:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Regent Princess Isabel and the scandal of the ball
I once read a novel where I heard that the regent Isabel, Princess Imperial of Brazil, in connection to her anti-slavery oppinions, made a scandal by dancing with a coloured man - a mulatto - on a ball. It was a way of demonstrating the idea of equality between the races. Of course, this was from a novel, but I wonder if it was taken from a true event? Does anyone know?--85.226.47.79 (talk) 17:16, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * According to this paper (p. 9), she "opened the ball to celebrate the Lei Aurea with a mulatto engineer". Clarityfiend (talk) 02:55, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Powerful industries suppress health advice in the US?
Is the final sentance in this excerpt from the Unsaturated fat article true? "Although unsaturated fats are healthier than saturated fats,[3] the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recommendation stated that the amount of unsaturated fat consumed should not exceed 30% of one's daily caloric intake (or 67 grams given a 2000 Calorie diet). The new dietary guidelines have eliminated this recommendation at the request of the meat and dairy industries." The recommended upper limit for saturated fat is only 20 grammes per day in the UK. Thanks 92.28.247.40 (talk) 18:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Oops, I compared un- and saturated fat. 92.29.114.35 (talk) 12:39, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Aaargh, this isn't neutral. We are claiming far too much without any sources. Even the BBC health link has gone dead. Itsmejudith (talk) 18:35, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

To clarify, the sentance I am asking about is "The new dietary guidelines have eliminated this recommendation at the request of the meat and dairy industries". Is that true? Thanks 92.28.247.40 (talk) 19:58, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It's two questions. 1) Has the recommendation of limiting the amount of unsaturated fat gone from the dietary guidelines? 2) (If so) was that at the request of the meat and dairy industries? 1) is easier to address than 2). A new version of dietary guidelines was probably commented on in various mainstream media. Itsmejudith (talk) 20:12, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, 35 total fat minus 7 saturated fat = 28 un-saturated fat. So it looks like a bit less than that. See page 4. Remember, the FDA is financed by the companies it regulates, therefore it feels duty bound to look after their financial health, so it is unlikely to suppress it - is it.--Aspro (talk) 20:29, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Please explain what you mean and how that relates to the question asked. 92.28.247.40 (talk) 22:11, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, nobody seems surprised, shocked, or concerned. 92.24.183.235 (talk) 22:26, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * There's been substantial criticism of the FDA and other organizations in promoting unnuanced "low fat" diets that substitute sugars for the removed fat calories. A dozen wikipedia articles address that issue but I can't find the specific one that is on point. That process certainly isn't unique to the U.S. FDA. Agricultural subsidies have market distorting consequences, as do food labeling and education campaigns. That people have grown fatter under those campaigns is sadly obvious. Shadowjams (talk) 09:20, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Calgary and Toronto mayors vs. U.S. cities mayors
When was the last time that any U.S. cities (largest ones I mean) had this type of situation where a liberal city has a conservative mayor like Toronto, Ontario and where a conservative city has a liberal mayor like Calgary, Alberta? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.149.63 (talk) 19:25, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Check the mayoral history of New York City, for one. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:31, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The mayor of New York is a conservative (by NYC standards) ex-Republican. The mayor of Houston is a lesbian Democrat. Phoenix also has a Democratic mayor, as do Fort Worth and Charlotte. Whether they are "liberals" is hard to say as most municipal issues don't fall easily into a liberal/conservative spectrum. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:55, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * In Toronto the major issue was money, so to the extent the election was about conservatism vs. liberalism, it was fiscal conservatism that won. See Rob Ford.  --Anonymous, 03:06 UTC, December 1, 2010.
 * Ths situation in New York City highlights the fact that comparing Republican vs. Democrat accross the country is tricky. New England and New York Republicans often come out as more liberal than Southern ( or Blue Dog) Democrats.  Compare someone like William Weld, a Massachusetts Republican with Heath Schuler, a North Carolina Democrat.  They served in slightly different eras, but Weld is easily more liberal on almost any measure than Schuler is.  -- Jayron  32  03:45, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * In the 1930's, New York's Republican Mayor Fiorello La Guardia was an ally of Franklin Delano Roosevelt's New Deal, which was generally (sometimes bitterly) opposed by the Democratic Party's local organization (see for example Al Smith). If you consult New York City mayoral elections for 1933 to 1941, you'll see that The Bronx and Brooklyn, the most-Democratic (even Socialist) boroughs in other elections, both then and now, gave La Guardia his strongest support, while Queens and Staten Island, now the most Republican of boroughs, gave the strongest support to his Democratic opponents. —— Shakescene (talk) 06:24, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Another example is Richard Riordan, the former Republican Mayor of Los Angeles, a very Democratic city, for eight years (1993-2001). However (as an example of the test I mention below), he failed to win election as Governor of California in 2002. With the impending retirement of Gov. Donald Carcieri, the two highest elected Republican officials in extremely-Democratic Rhode Island will be the mayors of Warwick (Scott Avedisian) and Cranston (Allan Fung). —— Shakescene (talk) 06:24, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

¶ Municipal issues often differ from national ones. It was not unknown for Republican businessmen in the U.S. a century ago (e.g. Charles A. Coffin, the president of General Electric in Schenectady, New York whose mayor was Rev. George R. Lunn, assisted by Walter Lippman) to support a Socialist mayor because he was considered to be "clean government" progressive who made his policy one of impartial efficiency rather than political patronage. (Workingmen and their unions disliked wasteful high taxes and corrupt, inefficient, politically-biased police forces as much as anyone else. So did independent intellectuals and professionals.) As in other countries, the test comes when a successful and popular elected municipal official tries for state or national office in an electorate that's inclined to support another party. —— Shakescene (talk) 05:45, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

India conservative liberal
Like the U.S. conservative and liberal states question, which indian states are more conservative (meaning BJP) and which states are more liberal (meaning Indian Congress)?


 * Kerala and West Bengal have communist-led governments... --Wrongfilter (talk) 21:49, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The terms conservative and liberal in the American sense are not apt to describe Indian politics. Three states, Kerala, West Bengal and Tripura, have governments led by the Communist Party of India (Marxist). The BJP can be described as a more rightwing party, but is not really like the US Republicans. States like Gujarat and Madhya Pradesh are BJP strongholds. Congress is not, by any means, a liberal party. Congress is pretty much strong in most states, but did lose a lot of ground in states like Uttar Pradesh and Bihar in recent years. --Soman (talk) 00:30, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Soman, someone who would in the UK be in the Labour Party would be drawn to which party in Indian politics? Itsmejudith (talk) 11:46, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Difficult question. In theory there is a plethora of parties representing a democratic socialist outlook (virtually all off-shoots of Janata Dal), but in reality that is a label that really doesn't mean anything (rather these parties tend to be to centred around individual leaders, willing to seek coalition with anyone willing to give them ministerial posts and relying of caste-based clientelism for political support). The Socialist Party tradition pretty much died out through the merger into Janata Party. In West Bengal, such a person (or at least a person who would be a soft leftist inside the UK Labour Party) might find the Democratic Socialist Party (Prabodh Chandra) interesting, it has a more direct connection to the old Socialist Party legacy than say the Samajwadi Party. There is also the Samajwadi Jan Parishad, which very small on the national level though. There was, not sure if it still exists, a platform inside the Congress party with a social democratic orientation and which sought contacts with the international social democracy. At some point, that would have been a natural referent for a UK Labour politician. --Soman (talk) 14:19, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It does seem complex indeed. The individual-leader groupings like those you mention used to be common in French politics of the centre and right, but have over many years resolved themselves into ideologically-based parties. From what you say, India seems to have gone in the opposite direction. Of course, one should expect there to be differences in the political cultures of different Indian states. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:31, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. The French and Indian development have gone in opposite directions (although not 100%, there are some complexities in both cases). In India, political parties have mushroomed over the years. In the first post-Independence election, Congress (representing the broad national mainstream) was dominant, and its main challengers consisted of ideologically profiled political parties with national agendas (Communists, Socialists, Hindu Rightists). After the Janata Party experiment and the decay of the Congress in the 1980s and 1990s (a process that was only superficially blocked by the assassinations of Indira and Rajiv Gandhi), new political parties mushroomed in India, generally based on one or a few charismatic leaders, caste equations and regional interests. These parties have no real ideological backbone, they can align with the left one day, BJP the next and Congress the day after. Most of the parties in the Indian parliament today fall in this category. --Soman (talk) 16:24, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

I think the person who ask the above question was trying to find out either which states or region are liberal of conservative. I think in my opinion I think Southern India is liberal due to the fact that it is the only region of the country that has significant Christian population. I agree with the West Bengal being liberal because not a single West Bengali government was BJP. Gujarat being a conservative, hmmm, maybe but it is the home of Mahatma Gandhi and Nehru Ji. I amazed that none of you said about Mahashtra. I see it as a conservative due to the fact the killer of Mahatma Gandhi was a Marathi and the party Shiv Sena is a Marathi. I agree about Uttar pradesh being stronghold of BJP because it is religious. I am also amazed that none of you said anything about the Eastern India.
 * Again, what does 'liberal' and 'conservative' mean? And secondly, what are the criteria for analysis? Gujarat is the birthplace of Gandhi, but that doesn't really have any impact on politics today. Gujarat is, in my view, the most clearly right-wing region in India today: 1. Stronghold of BJP, and stronghold of rightist faction inside BJP as well, 2. weak leftist tradition, the left is largely absent from Gujarati politics (with exceptions in some enclaves), 3. a more market/trade oriented society, Gujaratis are often traders outside Gujarat as well, 4. rampant communal divisions.
 * (and btw, no South India is not the only region that has significant numbers of Christians. Goa and the North-East have larger, by percentage, Christian populations. Nor are Indian Christians necessarily the most progressive section in the country)
 * --Soman (talk) 16:14, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, Soman, you said that Gujarat and Madhya Pradesh are BJP stronghold. Are there other states of India that are BJP stronghold and what about other states? Which states are Congress stronghold?
 * Congress doesn't really have a distinct stronghold, its either the largest or second largest party in most states. It does have a few weak points though, like Sikkim. BJP is also quite strong in Himachal Pradesh. Other states of importance for the party are Uttar Pradesh, Haryana, Andaman & Nicobars, Delhi, Assam, Chattisgarh, etc.. Recently it made breakthrough in Karnataka, and has grown in influence in Orissa. --Soman (talk) 03:17, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Sales Tax
Should a business impose a sales atx on the rental of a GYM locker  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.63.216.58 (talk) 21:23, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Sales tax laws vary significantly from state to state. You would have to consult the laws for that particular state. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:30, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Your IP address appears to locate to North Carolina. According to that state's Department of Revenue, North Carolina's sales tax applies to the lease or rental of property.  So a North Carolina business is legally required to impose a sales tax on rentals.  Marco polo (talk) 21:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd caution that the above analysis from Marco polo lacks the subtlety you'd get from an attorney. For example, it may be possible to argue that the locker itself is not being rented, but the use of the locker, or the space that lies within the physical boundaries of the walls of the locker but not the physical material of the locker itself (similar to the way many condominium associations own the walls of the condos but none of the space inside).  One of these approaches may not qualify as "property", thus qualifying as a loophole, avoiding the need for a sales tax collection.  If you have a serious question about this, contact an attorney who's familiar with this area of North Carolina law.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:30, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The tone of the question suggests the OP thinks he's getting ripped off. But it's not quite the right question: "Should a business impose a sales tax..." As Marco indicates, it is the state that imposes the sales tax, and the businesses merely collect it and turn it over to the state. And you're right that the OP should consult a lawyer, on the off chance that the business is charging a "sales tax" that they might be pocketing. I doubt it, but it's better to ask the experts. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:36, 1 December 2010 (UTC)