Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2010 October 27

= October 27 =

Retirement ages and Feminism - logic vs cultural norm
Here in China, you are forcibly retired (meaning you may go back to work, but no longer receive benefits, only salary) at age 55 for women and 60 for men. This age discrepancy, so far as I know, is fairly standard around the world. Call me crazy, but with women outliving men by 5 to 7 years on average I think those numbers out to be reversed. Are there any countries with gender-neutral retirement ages? Better yet, are there any countries where men receive full benefits for retiring at an earlier age than women? This seems one corner of modern society where the Feminist movement has really dropped the ball... (or strategically "overlooked" !) The Masked Booby (talk) 00:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Retirement ages are gender-neutral in the United States. Marco polo (talk) 01:21, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Canada too. I thought our way was standard, gender-neutral. Aaronite (talk) 04:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ditto Finland, and I have never heard that the Chinese kind of system is common. If anything, people are talking about granting men earlier retirement since women live longer. And also, in countries where the pension system works more or less like insurance, people are encouraged to work longer. This sometimes comes into conflict with the aim of freeing up jobs for young people. But I digress.--Rallette (talk) 06:13, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The UK has a similar discrepancy (currently 65 for men, and 60.5 for women, but becoming equal by 2018 and subsequently rising to 66 for both genders by 2020). There is no loss of benefit here if continuing to work except in some occupational pensions where the regulations do not allow higher earnings in retirement than in pre-retirement employment.    D b f i r s   07:19, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * When the retirement age was put in place, the expected lifespan in China was around 65 years for both men and women. It rose very slowly, only being around 67 in the 80's.  Now, it is over 70 with women outliving men on average (as seen throughout most of the world).  Since 2004, there has been legislation to raise the retirement age to 65.  It has not passed.  As for women retiring 5 years earlier, that has remained.  The reason is that most women are married.  A woman will get her pension and half her husband's pension.  A man will get his pension and nothing more.  So, the woman gets more money by retiring early than the man.  If you are arguing for equal gender rights, you should also be arguing for men to get half the wife's pension. --  k a i n a w &trade; 12:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Could you clarify your post? What do you mean by: A woman will get her pension and half her husband's pension. Do you mean that a widow gets the half of her late husband's pension (plus her own) (AFAIK this is the standard case in European countries)? Does the same happen with a widower? Flamarande (talk) 15:16, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * To be fair, you're discussing China. I doubt equal pension rights are high on most people's priority lists in terms of rights in China, and bad things have a tendency to happen to people who kick up a fuss. I'm sure most feminists (that is, most people in developed countries) would agree that forcible early retirement for women is not fair, and somewhat counter-intuitive, but anyone prepared to risk their life by kicking up a fuss about rights abuses or feminism in China would probably concentrate on different things. 86.162.69.141 (talk) 14:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Despite the words at the start of your response, that's not fair, Anon, and your prejudices do not help to answer the question. That human rights are often infringed upon in China has no bearing on the status of feminism in China. While China has never bought into (or been brought into) the Western feminist movement in any large way, in many ways gender equality in China is probably better than wherever you come from (your IP seems to indicate the UK). Female labour participation rates in China are and have been higher than many Western countries for decades. The Chinese parliament has a larger proportion of female members than many Western countries.
 * You presume to speak for "most people in developed countries", yet democratic governments around the world have seen fit to place different age thresholds for men and women as regarding the state pension or compulsory employer-contributed pensions (which, I understand, is what the OP meant by mandatory retirement). Perhaps the Chinese government will move towards equal retirement ages in the future, but perhaps their hands would not be forced by the kind of economic quagmire encountered by the UK. In fact, many people in "developed countries" would think that being able to retire earlier on a full state or employer-contributed pension is a good thing. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I do not presume to speak for most people in developed countries, I merely note that most people in developed countries come under the most broad definitions of 'feminist', and thus their views are (broadly) the views of feminists. I say this to avoid a false 'feminist/normal' dichotomy, where feminists are viewed as unusual or having extreme views compared to the normal populace. Whether or not China is more equal in many ways than my own country, you cannot fairly discuss a practice of the Chinese government, and why campaigners do not ask for such a (relatively) minor thing to be changed, without mentioning that those who campaign for change often face serious consequences. And that there are things those same campaigners are likely to see as more important.
 * Whether or not being able (or required) to retire early is a good thing for the individual, it is still unfair that one gender is able (or required) to retire earlier than the other if the earlier-retiring gender lives as long or longer than the later-retiring gender. Feminists do not generally just want things to be better for women and worse for men: even if this were an unfair advantage for women, it would still be unfair. But less wrong and unfair than many other things, and so not something to risk your life or freedom for. 86.162.69.141 (talk) 16:46, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Linguistic maps of Latin America
Are there any sources online where I can find current linguistic maps of Latin American countries? There are lots of maps that show the pre-colonial distribution of Amerind languages, but I'd like to find maps that show the distribution of native languages with Spanish and Portuguese today. --140.232.181.167 (talk) 10:11, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Try the Ethnologue maps page on the Americas . They don't have maps for every country, but they have a lot of them. Just click the country name, and then click "See language map" near the top of the page that comes up. Voikya (talk) 14:13, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * You can check the section "External links" at Indigenous languages of the Americas.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 14:53, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * You can check the contents of http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Linguistic_maps.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 14:56, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Miliband's memo about PMQs
Does anyone know where one might find a full copy of the leaked document referred to in this news story? Thanks, ╟─ Treasury Tag ► sundries ─╢ 11:24, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe that The Times have the only leaked copy, and they've only posted snippets of it, rather than the whole item. The original Times article that other news organisations are commenting on is online here, but it's behind a paywall. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 15:51, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Mark Twain's Short story
I am trying to locate the name of a short story that was written by Mark Twain. It was translated to Hebrew under the Hebrew name "Death Ball" (כדור המוות). It is about a girl that her father was jailed (maybe in Cromwell's era). To release him from jail she has to choose specific ball from three different balls. That is what I found (in Hebrew) about this story with Google.

Can anyone help me ? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.143.134.129 (talk) 11:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * This doesn't ring a bell for me, but this page purports to host almost all of Mark Twain's short stories and essays. Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Sounds more like The Merchant of Venice ... AnonMoos (talk) 17:48, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Now I got the translation of the beginning, from Ladino to English:

Conviction or rescue by his daughter Or                 Ball Of death

Fate of a loved one in your hand you will, that you can convict or save it in one motion without knowing it, on the other hand think that the verdict will be done by a voice that was most precious. These are two points of view of the terrible situation of the most brutal imaginable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.143.134.129 (talk) 08:47, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * That does not sound like something Twain would write, but I admit he has written things I have not read yet. Googlemeister (talk) 15:01, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The story is "The Death Disk," originally published in 1901. Admired during Twain's lifetime, it is little known today.  John M Baker (talk) 23:13, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Universal language
Re the discussion at Talk:Universal_language - if anyone knows of other mythological stories concerning origins of language - specifically those which describe a situation in which many languages were created from one original language.. the please let me/us know. (either here or there). Thanks.Sf5xeplus (talk) 19:39, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Is Mythical origins of language helpful? Apparently Greek myth has a similar story (although I haven't checked the reference and I am not familiar with that story). Adam Bishop (talk) 19:52, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, probably. I just found that article myself. Sf5xeplus (talk) 19:57, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh and if an expert wants to add a section to that article about "mythical universal languages" clean up and reference and improve the whole article - please do so. That would be appreciated. Sf5xeplus (talk) 20:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

books about a guide dog on 9/11
There were reports about a guide dog named Roselle. Roselle led her visually impaired master down 78 flights of stairs to safety in the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001. By any chance were there books written about Roselle?24.90.204.234 (talk) 20:45, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * There's a lot on the web about Roselle (eg. Tribute to the Canine Heroes of 9/11). A Google Books search turns up an entry in Planet Dog: A Doglopedia but no single book devoted entirely to that one dog that I can see.  Wiki Dao  &#9775;  (talk)  20:56, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Dates and location of a festival in Ghana
We have an article on the festival Bugum Chugu, which I think I might like to attend in the coming year. Another website says it falls in January, but I'm not sure that this is accurate given that our article says that it takes place on the ninth day of the month called Bugum Goli, which is the first month of the Dagomba lunar year. I can't find any information online about this calendar. Any ideas of what date this translates to? And from what I can tell, it is celebrated in the region around Tamale, but can anyone figure out if it's celebrated in Tamale itself? And as a general matter, I'd love more information about what festivals generally are happening in Ghana in early January 2011. (There is a list here but it isn't very specific about dates.) Thanks!!! Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:52, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems like the Dagombas have adopted the Muslim calendar so this may be a clue as to the dates? Would it be the first Thursday after the Islamic New Year (i.e. 7 December 2010)? Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:54, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Any ceremony celebrated according to the Islamic calendar doesn't have a fixed relationship to the seasons of the year... AnonMoos (talk) 23:20, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Sarah Palin
Why do people on CNN & other news media, continue to say Palin isn't qualified for the US Presidency? According to the US Constitution, she is. GoodDay (talk) 22:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Because they are not taking the narrow reading of the term "qualified" that you are. In your last try at raising this, you set out the minimal qualifications and pointed out that she possessed them. However many in the media think she is a blithering idiot, and that her idiocy (or rather, her lack of good sense) is a disqualification, or lack of possession of a necessary qualification. Certainly, we're not in birther territory here, merely dealing with someone suspected of being as stupid as she is attractive to, err, stupid voters. And, come to think of it, I'm pretty sure you know that that is exactly why the media uses the "isn't qualified" term. Which makes me wonder about the good faith, or otherwise, of your question. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:18, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * If ya wanna delete the question, fine. Just don't shoot the questioner. GoodDay (talk) 22:22, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Most Stupid thing you've ever heard anyone say
Just curious what is the most stupid thing you've ever heard anyone say —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.17.50.254 (talk) 22:23, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, we don't have room enough for the day to day ramblings of my boss. Dismas |(talk) 22:32, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * This is a Reference Desk, so the personal experiences of us volunteers are not supposed to matter as much as some solid references. So I googled stupidest thing anyone ever said and this link was the #1 hit, though I must warn you that several of these statements are apocryphal.  Comet Tuttle (talk) 22:34, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Looking up a list of Dan Quayle quotations might prove useful to the OP - he was fairly famous for making horrendous blunders when giving speeches (though he didn't actually say *all* of the things that have been attributed to him since). --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 22:38, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Bushisms?-- Jac 16888 Talk 23:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The other day a doctor asked me if I had any previous history of suicide. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:32, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * At my cousin's funeral I asked his widow if she was "ok". Well, at least I made her laugh, I guess? Adam Bishop (talk) 23:47, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Some such are due to pure ignorance, other are due to brain being out of gear while mouth is engaged. An acquaintance of my mother, who once wanted to say "Goodbye" pretentiously, said "Avordupois!" A small town policeman, trying to be a sleuth like Sherlock Holmes, legendarily said "Ya say ye're from Akron, huh? How come ya got the Ohio plates on the car?" Layabouts observing the traffic stop did not know if he thought Akron was in a state other than Ohio, or if he thought Akron was a state. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara once said that the US Air Force was developing an airplane which would be able to "fly more than 2000 miles per year." Edison (talk) 23:55, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * This is the Reference desk.--Wetman (talk) 00:00, 28 October 2010 (UTC)