Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2011 December 28

= December 28 =

French Revolution with New France
If New France had won the French and Indian War and therefore still maintained itself in North America, would its presence greatly influence the French Revolution? If so, how? 64.229.180.189 (talk) 00:12, 28 December 2011 (UTC)


 * See Alternate history. BrainyBabe (talk) 00:44, 28 December 2011 (UTC)


 * A couple of thoughts: the French and Indian War was not an isolated event; it was the last of a series of wars that opposed France and Great Britain for the control of North America. Given the huge population advantage of the British colonies, the conquest would probably only have been delayed by a few years, for example until the French Revolution began and France had few resources left to protect its colonies. Also, New France, while geographically huge was otherwise quite marginal: barely 60,000 inhabitants, and almost no contribution to France's economy (in contrast to the "sugar islands" of the Caribbean). So it would likely have had as little influence on the French Revolution as Louisiana did, but would have been an easy target for conquest by the recently-constitued United States. --Xuxl (talk) 10:56, 28 December 2011 (UTC)


 * French India, and Haiti and the other French Caribbean possessions didn't play any direct role in the Revolution. Canada would hardly have provided sufficient wealth to avoid the Ancien Régime's financial problems that led to the Revolution (indeed the cost of more wars with the English may even have hastened it, but I don't know enough about the economics to say).  Possessing Canada might also have affected the size and location of the imperial French army and navy, which might have slightly influenced the Revolution, and if Napoleon had faced a revolt in French Canada as well as in Haiti it may have slowed down his plans for European domination, but who knows? --Colapeninsula (talk) 17:01, 28 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I expect the main effect would be on the American Revolution (by denying the British a safe place on the North American mainland) and on the War of 1812, which I would guess never would have happened at all, since the British would be in too weak of a position in North America. Had France then sold Canada to the US along with the Louisiana Purchase, then France would have been in a better position financially and the US would be a much larger nation.  StuRat (talk) 19:03, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The permutations are endless here. If France had won certain possession of everything between the Mississippi and the Appalachians, would the British colonists have been more accepting of British troops in their midst and sharing the burden for them? Without a Quebec Act, would the colonists have less to begrudge London for? Maybe the American Revolution as we know it wouldn't have happened. No American Revolution means no French intervention and no burden on French taxpayers and perhaps no French Revolution. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:05, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, with Canada still in French hands, the British colonists in America might well have remained much more loyal to King George, and supportive of his Parliament - "Parliament wants to impose a Stamp Tax? Well, I won't pretend I like it, but... that tax does pay for troops, and those troops are all that stand between us and the damned French up in Canada and out in Ohio!  So... I suppose we will just have to tighten our belts and put up with it.  More tea, anyone?"  My guess is that, eventually, there would have been a Second French and Indian War, and Canada would have ended up in British Hands in any case... but the timing and politics of that would have changed a lot of subsequent history.  Blueboar (talk) 00:20, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

US Congress
What are the expressed powers given Congress? Please help me to answer this question! Thank you so much! :D68.103.77.158 (talk) 01:29, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * See Powers of the United States Congress. Dismas |(talk) 01:47, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Police stealing soda in Hilltop Mall
I would like to add to the Hilltop Mall and Richmond Police Department articles that the force was caught stealing soda from a Hilltop Mall restaurant while investigating a robbery a few years back. I was trying to find the source can somebody with nexus lexus help me? It appeared on all the local TV stations and papers i.e. Berkeley Daily Planet, SF Chronicle, Oakland Tribune, and Contra Costa Times at the time. Little help?LuciferWildCat (talk) 04:33, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a fairly trivial incident not defining of either the mall or the department. I doubt it is the sort of content we should be adding to articles. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:37, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed, this seems like it isn't worth mentioning at Wikipedia. I wouldn't bother with this, per WP:UNDUE.  -- Jayron  32  04:39, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * If it made headlines as an embarrassment to the department that is often considered an incompetent force unable to do its job, I think it helps cite that topic in proper context.LuciferWildCat (talk) 05:01, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Lots of things make headlines. It doesn't make it appropriate content for a Wikipedia article.  Remember, being important to you doesn't make it important for Wikipedia.  See WP:NOTNEWS for some context.  -- Jayron  32  05:05, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Obviously notable, since the theft did not involve coffee or donuts.
 * In all seriousness? It may have been a cheesy thing to do, but a toddler could probably steal soda from a restaurant, if you're talking about one of those fountain filler things. It doesn't sound hugely notable. If it did make headlines locally, though, especially in the Tribune and the Chronicle, can it not be found in the local public libraries? Kafka Liz (talk) 05:20, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Even toddlers can steal things, and we hold toddlers to a much higher moral standard than policemen. Card Zero  (talk) 09:23, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

We have a whole article on Fajitagate! -- AnonMoos (talk) 07:50, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe not for much longer...I just AfDed it. It's poorly constructed, doesn't have a source that isn't the San Francisco Chronicle, was essentially a one-off news event, and is competent unsourced in the parts that would most attest to notability. Fajitagate should be eaten  Purpleback  pack  89  ≈≈≈≈  01:54, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd say that you're putting the cart before the horse here. You're saying that "the department that is often considered an incompetent force unable to do its job"&mdash;okay, by whom, when, and where?  Is there a legitimate basis for an objective declaration of incompetence, or is it just the subjective opinion of one or a few people?  Is the commenter qualified to make that assessment?  If the statement is based on an opinion survey, was it properly conducted?  Were the comparisons to other departments fair and appropriate, and was the conclusion of incompetence published in a reliable source?
 * In other words, you shouldn't be starting with I think they're incompetent and I'm going to find embarrassing stories to illustrate it&mdash;that's a type of original research and synthesis that isn't appropriate for a Wikipedia article. (There's a saying that comes up among researchers: "The plural of anecdote is not data."  You can come up with a dozen 'bad' or 'inept' cop stories for any major police department just about anywhere; what you really want to know is whether those incidents happen because of a tiny fraction of bad officers, or because of systemic incompetence or pathological mismanagement.)  What you need to be doing is finding reliable, high-quality sources discussing the performance and conduct of the police department, and allow those sources to guide Wikipedia's coverage.   TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:29, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Anyways anyone willing to help me find the source?LuciferWildCat (talk) 08:08, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I would say the answer to that is probably, "nope... if you want to go down that road, you're on your own". Blueboar (talk) 20:25, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Suffice it to say that if you use Google News skillfully you can find articles about practically any news-covered event that occurred in the U.S. in the last 5 or 10 years.--Cam (talk) 13:54, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

What's it called?
In Lord of the Rings, Gondor sends out the Red Arrow to its ally Rohan to signify that war is nigh. I have a strong suspicion there are historical equivalents. If so, there should be an article around here somewhere. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:29, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * A prearranged signal like a signet ring from the early modern period or a seal stone from the anceint period. Sleigh (talk) 11:21, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Or the Mexicans raising a blood-red flag signifying no quarter during the Battle of the Alamo. Sleigh (talk) 11:27, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * What's it called? I would call these things tokens of war, but we seem to have no article for that phrase. --Antiquary (talk) 18:43, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Some Native Americans used wampum belts and painted hatchets as tokens of war. I seem to recall a spear, arrow or pipe sometimes being used as well. Rmhermen (talk) 19:56, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know what it's called, but it sounds like once somebody figures out what it is, we should have a link-rich article on it  Purpleback pack  89  ≈≈≈≈  01:56, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The term might just be "token of war". Searching on that term turns up many uses in exactly that form. Many books refer to the Native American tradition of sending a red-painted tomahawk around as a "token of war". This book mentions that "the Romans used to send a spear in token of war" (and something else as a "token of peace"). And this one mentions an old Icelandic practice of sending a "war arrow" around as a token of war--interestingly similar to Tolkien's "red arrow". Perhaps he borrowed the idea from Icelandic mythology, like so much else. In any case, I could be wrong, but perhaps the term in question is simply "token of war". If someone wanted to make a page about it, that term could be used, seems to me. If a better term presents itself the page can always be renamed. Pfly (talk) 07:30, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Islamic Africa empires
Which Islamic empires introduced Islam to Burkina Faso, Senegal, Gambia, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Mali, Niger, Chad, Guinea, Sudan, Djibouti, Mauritania and Comoros? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.53.230.104 (talk) 18:17, 28 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Parts of Sudan belonged to many middle-eastern Islamic realms. For the rest, much of the initial familiarization with Islam was actually often accomplished by long-distance traders, possibly with a few Sufi missionaries, rather than by conquest.  However, see the Jihad of Usman dan Fodio for one one round of Islamic conquests in non-desert West Africa... AnonMoos (talk) 19:05, 28 December 2011 (UTC)


 * The article Islam in Africa may be a good place for 70.53 to start their research. -- Jayron  32  22:37, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Conspirator in the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand who later became a WW2 Tito partisan?
Does anyone know about a member of the Black Hand conspiracy in the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, who later became a Titoist partisan during the Yugoslav resistance in the 1940s? --Gary123 (talk) 20:02, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * No, but my first thought was, "That's quite a gap of years," and my second was of an episode towards the end of Eastern Approaches, the autobiography of the early life of Fitzroy MacLean, who became friendly with Tito while sheltering with him in partisan caves, in the role of chief liaison between the Yugoslav leader and Churchill. (Maclean was also one of the inspirations for James Bond.) From our article on the book, on the liberation of Belgrade:
 * From the terrace of the Kalemegdan, the ancient fort in the middle of the city, they witnessed the withdrawal of German troops over the Danube to the suburb of Zemun. Inexplicably, the Germans failed to blow up the bridge after the last of their troops were over it, allowing the Russians to follow only minutes behind.  Maclean, some time afterwards, found out the answer to this puzzle, comparing it to a fairytale.  An old schoolmaster, whose one experience of modern warfare was in the Balkan War of 1912, saw the charges being laid and knew how to disconnect them. He got a gold medal in 1912 and another for this iniative too.
 * BrainyBabe (talk) 18:28, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Named air battles
Why are there many named land and naval battles, but (so far as I know) no named air battles? (If I'm wrong just provide me with a link to an article about a named air battle). Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty 22:37, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Battle of Britain? -- Jayron  32  22:47, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * And of course the unfortunate Battle of Barking Creek. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:35, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Air battles were impossible in the not so far past, and even then, an air battle was probably fought parallel to land or naval battles. 88.8.76.47 (talk) 00:03, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. :-/ Whoop whoop pull up Bitching Betty 00:36, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * No named air battles? Apart from the Battle of Britain, see Air battle over Niš, Ofira Air Battle, Battle of Berlin (air), Air Battle of El Mansoura, Air Battle of South Korea, Battle of Sunchon (air), Formosa Air Battle and so on.  You'll doubtless get more names by clicking on the various links here.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  00:36, 29 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I think this is what Jack of Oz is linking to, but in plain text, we have a whole list of air battles, under [Category:Aerial operations and battles]. BrainyBabe (talk) 18:31, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes, Category:Aerial operations and battles. Thanks, Brainy.  (PS. If you want to link to a category without having the page you're on, such as this one, appearing in that category, put a colon before "Category:" then use double brackets as usual.)  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  18:38, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, thanks Jack; I knew there was a trick for that. BrainyBabe (talk) 18:52, 29 December 2011 (UTC)