Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2011 June 26

= June 26 =

how to satisfy two women
this is kind of I don't know, related to psychology I guess. my question is how to satisfy two women at the same time, just sexually. The major issues I see (thinking of it as a man, if I were in a threesome with another man and a woman) is 1) that's pretty repulsive, since I am not gay (and neither are any of these two girls) 2) I couldn't avoid thinking of all sorts of veneral diseases and stuff, sine what kind of man (or woman) goes into a threesome? I've never done anything like this, however, and neither have they - we just really like each other. So my question is from a psychological / human sexuality standpoint, how do I satisfy these two women at the same time. None of us is seeing anyone, we're in our mid-twenties, and but we all flirt. We've known each other fleetingly for a few weeks, and noen of us has had sex with any of us. --188.29.202.199 (talk) 00:22, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, I forgot the biggest one in my list! Jealousy!  I would think, that as heterosexuals, this is the biggest issue.  I really can't imagine a correct approach to this kind of situation - in fact maybe it can't be done at all.  I am NOT talking about a menage-a-trois type situation, where a third woman would join a couple (advice for this is here).  I'm talking about flirtation among three people none of whom is seeing each other.  None of us is promiscuous at all, actually - we're sexually frustrated.  Wouldn't surprise me if all of us were a redditor and "forever alone".  I think we all think we're cute though...  --188.29.202.199 (talk) 00:24, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * also please note that this is not chauvinism. if there were another guy in our circle who was as cool as we are, the question might be a very different one.  It's easier for two guys to fuck one woman though (and kind of hot) so on a purely physical level I can see this (as in porn scenes).  I am bringing this up not because it's relevant but to show that I am tyring to view the situation from the other point of view as well, which woild be two guys and a girl.  The main thing I see is 1) that it's icky, 2) who would do that?  vd type stuff, and 3) jealousy...  I would very much like to read up and make myself wiser on this subject.  Thank you.  --188.29.202.199 (talk) 00:27, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Ask them. It is the only sensible answer. Bielle (talk) 00:28, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Um, why would they know? If a girl asked me about being with another guy and her, all I could say is I've never done it, it's repulsive to think of thet type of guy that would jump on that chance, but you know, if it's someone we know well who is cool, and if it is basically more about her than the two of us (not gay action) than it could be a very exciting experience.  All I could say is let both of us touch you, or keep a hand on both of us, and don't try to make us do stuff with each other (don't say, "kiss him" or suck him).  But in the case at hand, I think I can easily follow this advice.  Surely there must be more, that no one would know except by expereince?  It sounds like you can help me on this point Bielle?--188.29.202.199 (talk) 00:32, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry to reply to myself again, but another thing I thought of is that I don't want them to to feel inferior or that it takes two of them (they're in some ways similar, and friends with each other) to satisfy me, like one of them is not interesting enough or things like that. But, you know, we've known each other for weeks and none of us has dated each other, so this is not really about building a relationsihp... this is what could be taken the wrong way.  any help here (psychologically) is very much appreciated.   I care about their feelings and as people as well.  --188.29.202.199 (talk) 00:32, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Put a third way, if I were reading about this in erotic fiction, the major things that make it work more easily is 1) it's just a story, no one has to think about disease and promiscuity, and 2) people can act out of character in a story. in a story two librarians could just decide to start undressing and fuck me.  obviously this is not the way the world actually works, and i am looking for advice as it relates to real people.  --188.29.202.199 (talk) 00:37, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe one is not supposed to be able to do so. Schyler  ( one language ) 00:40, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I've been thinking about that. In my experience, if you can't think of how something will go, then maybe you should go do something else.  This is why I'm asking for help from all of you - I realize my own limits.  --188.29.202.199 (talk) 00:57, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I do feel that if I heard someone else asking this question, I might think that this guy was sleezy and wanted a way to "psych out" and manipulate women... that's not what this is about though, but just the fact that it can come off this way is good reason to think that maybe you're right schyler and maybe one is not suppsoed to. but i do think there is an alternative.  just as men choose to watch films where two men are banging a girl -- and why do they choose to that, because it's hot.  if i were a girl and trying to arrange this with two guys, i would not be manipulative, i would be a hostess, and just as with any good host or hostess, it looks effortless and easy, but in fact it is hard to get right.  it's easier for a girl, who would be a hostess of her body, but as i guy to be host of this would be more than just sharing my body.  i mean, sensuously, physically i would have to be there 100% with both fo them, i mean things like continually caressing them, stroking their hair and body, if i am kissing one of them, then also giving 100% attention to the other, for example like if the other were sucking me at the same time.  same for intercourse.  i think the jealousy and giving 100% attention is very important (to the woman, i shoudl be, i think, there 100% with her, just with the difference that i am also satisfying another woman).  i think this is not as easy to pull off as it sounds, and this is why i would like pointers or further reading and education.  --188.29.202.199 (talk) 01:12, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Women are pleased by talking, especially about them. So, hopefully you can understand why "Ask them" is the best answer. -- k a i n a w &trade; 00:44, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * One reason I would think it's a bad answer, is as a guy I would absolutely hate being asked about this. I would hate talking about it at all.  It's gay as f_ (nothing wrong with that, but I'm not) and uncomfortable for me.  Especially if the other guy were all enthusaistic about sucking my d_ and stuff.  It's one thing if it happens during the heat of the thing, but to talk about it.  That will make sure the thing did not happen at all.  The way it would work with me, that I would be cool with it, would be if a girl asked me could you ever imagine f__ing me while another guy does? And I say yes and she says okay let's do it and we do it.  F_ talking about it!!  But it's different with a guy and two girls: it's not that each of them "f_s me while the other does" - I only have one d_ck, which is not analogous to how a woman can easily suck a guy off while she's getting banged.  (and in which case, to each guy, he's just f_cking her while someone else is).   So, it seems, I need far more at my disposal than just talking about it.  I need to know what to do, both physically and psyhcologically...  I'd like to educate myself and improve in this field, and that's why I'm here asking you.  --188.29.202.199 (talk) 00:57, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * If you aren't asking women what they want, you aren't pleasing them - even one of them. Your penis isn't anything of interest to them. They probably have dildos that are twice as big and vibrate. What good are you physically? All you can provide is conversation. Until you wrap your brain around that, you will be just another guy that the women fake orgasms for just to keep you from feeling bad. -- k a i n a w &trade; 01:17, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I appreciate the concern, but we talk dozens of hours a week and have a lot of fun. I am not going to start talking about sex for the reasons I outlined -- the golden rule, that I wouldn't want to talk about having sex with another man and woman.  Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to do it, just that I think talk is counterproductive.  In fact, this is my explicit experience: talking about this (in that case about another guy and I) was very bad, and should not have happened.  It's one thing to discuss things briefly, but as for doing well with the thing, I think it is just plain not the best way to do it.  This would be like me asking "how do I be a good host for a party" and you saying "ask your guests".  Well, yes, you can ask them what they'd like at the party, but at the end of the day the thing should seem effortless and spontaneous, not the product of laborious machinations.    the best hosts make it seem like they're hardly working at it - they don't aanalyze the party dynamics with you.  I would like the same result.  --188.29.43.193 (talk) 01:35, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * How to satisfy two women at once: Give one your checkbook and the other your credit cards. StuRat (talk) 01:04, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Wow! That was pretty cynical StuRat. I can't help wondering why these kind of questions often get the longest response list.190.148.136.161 (talk) 02:50, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * They get the longest responses because the OP is more interested in writing about his own fantasies than he is in listening to the answer to the question. You please two women the same way you please one. Be most interested in what she/they want. Not much else matters. Bielle (talk) 03:06, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yep, that's it. It ain't rocket science. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:31, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Cue "The Husband Store" joke... ;-) Viriditas (talk) 05:42, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This, with a rebuttal from the female viewpoint. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:48, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm inclined to say that if you aren't open enough to discuss such things, you won't be open enough to perform such things whole-heartedly. Foofish (talk) 14:25, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Dude, just be creative, but don't do anything really freaky, lol, it's that simple. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie &#124; Say Shalom! 14:32, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree. Furthermore as one of the obvious flaws with the OP's approach is they appear to be presuming the women would be uncomfortable with any sexual interactions with each other. While this could be the case, you will never know without talking to them. Notably in many modern European (including American) cultures it seems more accepted for women to be involved in same sex interactions even when they don't consider themselves gay or to be bisexual then for men . And of course people are different. So going by how you would feel about sexual interaction with a guy doesn't work. Nil Einne (talk) 17:42, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * What women are really "burning for" is "the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night." Bus stop (talk)
 * Fooled me. Bielle (talk) 19:56, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Some years back, Jay Leno reported that a group of researchers had paid a series of women 75 dollars apiece to tell them what turned them on. "It turned out that what turned them on was the 75 dollars!" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:56, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm confused. Did the OP think that we're too genteel to see the word "fuck" uncensored but that we'd have good advice about three-way sex? --JGGardiner (talk) 07:36, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't you know how the Victorians operated; there was no activity considered unacceptable, but there were severe, extreme restrictions on what might be spoken about. That approach is still very much alive in many ways.  --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  08:48, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You're both overanalyzing it: it's just the Wikipedia filter. I (OP) had all words uncensored then tried censoring them one at a time, but it kept tripping the filter, so I censored them en masse.  --188.28.242.234 (talk) 18:33, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
 * What is this "Wikipedia filter" of which you speak? --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  21:36, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Source of lyrics
I've recently been enjoying this piece, referred to as "Creation" from the Continental Harmony by William Billings. What is the source of these lyrics? Did Billings write them as well as the tune? SDY (talk) 03:42, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You can find the answer in our article about the piece, Creation (William Billings). Looie496 (talk) 04:28, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Zoiks, we really do have an article on everything. SDY (talk) 07:35, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Samoa
Is there any attempts or possibiltiy of the unification of American Samoa and Samoa? Also how did the two Samoas keep their native population so high? Most natives of other islands in the Pacific are now minorities in their own lands, ie. Hawaii. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 04:25, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * In a sense, they're about to move further apart. Western Samoa is planning to move itself to the other side of the International Date Line in December to better align itself with New Zealand and Fiji. HiLo48 (talk) 04:40, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * And even more importantly it will align itself with the region's leading economic force, Australia. Samoa is now 21 hours behind the eastern territories of Australia, but after the shift the country will find itself only 3 hours ahead of them. This will ensure a better consistency between the working hours in the two nations. Now Samoans work on Friday when it's already Saturday in Australia, and Mondays in Australia take place when it's still Sunday in Samoa. (This, of course, is valid in regard to New Zealand and Fiji too.) --Theurgist (talk) 09:59, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Note that New Zealand is apparently Samoa's current principal trading partner. The date line switch will also make Samoa's work week significantly better aligned with Pacific Rim parts of Asia like China often seen as a major possible future partner Nil Einne (talk) 17:25, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * That makes it 23 hours behind versus 1 hour ahead. --Theurgist (talk) 12:00, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * According to this site, "Western Samoa has a lively political climate, with much jousting and intrigue between the different political parties. There continues to be, in some circles, discussion of a possible unification of the two Samoan regions into a single independent country. Few American Samoans appear to be in favor of this idea. Their resistance to Samoan unification is driven not only by the tremendous economic disparity between American Samoa and Western Samoa, but also because of different cultural trajectories.". Looie496 (talk) 04:43, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * AFAIK Fiji, Tonga, Vanuatu, Solomon Islands as well as many of the smaller pacific islands still have populations generally considered majority native. If you include them, both Papua New Guinea and West Papua (region) still have a majority native population I believe, the later despite the Transmigration program Nil Einne (talk) 07:33, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

1 billion hungry
I've read that 1 billion people go hungry every day. How is this number calculated? Viriditas (talk) 05:36, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * More like a "guesstimate", I should think. But where have you read it? They might have an explanation or rationalization of such guesstimate. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:45, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The phrase one finds on the news or in books is "1 billion people chronically hungry", however, the exact term is food insecure, not hungry. Are these figures coming from the UN? Viriditas (talk) 06:04, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Here's another one: "500,000 Illinois children whose families must cope with food insecurity". Viriditas (talk) 06:08, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Another: "The US Department of Agriculture reports that one in six Americans is food insecure." So the question remains, how is food insecurity calculated? Viriditas (talk) 06:10, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Those numbers sound suspiciously "round". As you suggest, the citations kick that number around but none of them say where they got it. The UN or one of its branches would be a reasonable guess. The interesting thing in the food security article is that supposedly food production per capita in the world is actually increasing, which means the problem is as much to do with distribution as anything. I wonder if the UN has a website that might lead to this information. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:18, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The food security page has a bunch of references that could be perused. That article's number seems to be 800 million rather than an even-rounder 1 billion. It also mentions the World Resources Institute, which I suspect has numbers like that at its disposal. If one of the food security references explains where they get those numbers, that would be a good addition to the article. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:22, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This source suggests the US number is based on food stamp recipients. That much is obvious.  But what about the rest of the world? Viriditas (talk) 07:07, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * If you close your eyes you can actually feel the hunger. Try it: it's about a billion people's.  --188.29.246.40 (talk) 14:40, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * What were you hoping to achieve by that "contribution"? --   Jack of Oz   [your turn]  19:31, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If at least one person here closed their eyes to feel how a billion people's hunger feels, then my work has been successful. --188.29.32.204 (talk) 01:10, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, it worked for me. I closed my eyes and a vision of a Sundae appeared. So I went to DQ and got one. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:08, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * This Millennium Development Goals Report from the Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations uses the 1 billion hungry figure for 2009, and discusses on page 2 and again on page 74 where it's getting its data from. I've been looking around on the UN's Department of Economic and Social Affairs website for data or discussions of how data is compiled, but haven't hit paydirt yet.   --some jerk on the Internet    (talk)  14:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The FAO's The State of Food Insecurity in the World 2009 talks about how they derive their numbers in what looks like pretty good detail.  --some jerk on the Internet    (talk)  14:57, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The people in charge of producing food are the same people who say how much food needs to be produced? Isn't that a conflict of interest?  How much food insecurity and/or hunger do government aid agencies say there is?  I would think they would be a lot more accurate, without any motivation to overestimate like the food producers' have. 99.24.223.58 (talk) 02:19, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

The Book of the Dead
According to this video (from 4:47 to 5:37), the Book of the Dead tells many stories that are very similar to the Christian stories about the virgin birth of Jesus, his crucifixion etc. Is that an exaggeration? A specific commentary to the book? And in what plate can I find it? Oh, well (talk) 14:30, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * There are a number of miraculous elements common to many religions. Among them are miraculous births and the idea of a divine figure who dies and is resurrected. Both of those articles have sections on both the Christian and ancient-Egyptian versions of these elements. -- Finlay McWalter ☻ Talk 14:36, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * The video has been removed, so I can't see specifically what it says. In general, though, the idea that Egyptian mythology has close parallels to the life and death of Jesus has a long history but is not very accurate. The Book of the Dead alludes repeatedly to the myths that are claimed to parallel the life of Jesus, but there are numerous other Egyptian texts that do the same. To summarize the similar stories:


 * The god Osiris is murdered by his brother Set and then revived by his sister and wife Isis. The revival may be a literal, physical resurrection in one way—Isis has sex with Osiris to produce Horus. On the other hand, Osiris apparently lives only in the Duat, the realm of the dead, after Horus is conceived. While there, he is an agent of cosmic renewal: the sun goes into the Duat to meet Osiris and be reborn every night, the waters of the Nile flood flow out of the Duat to renew the fertility of Egypt, and dead souls go to meet Osiris and be revived in a similar manner to the sun.


 * The life of Horus is also supposed to have parallels to Jesus' life. I believe that the idea originated with Gerald Massey, who was not a professional Egyptologist in a time when even professional Egyptology was not very sophisticated. He claimed that Horus was born of a virgin, which as I said above is not true. The same goes for the claim that Horus was born on December 25 or that he was crucified. Some of the other claims may be true but not constitute particularly important events in Egyptian mythology. For a lot more detail and argument on this subject, you can look at the talk pages for the Horus article (Talk:Horus and Talk:Horus/Archive 1).


 * So, in sum, parts of Osiris' story have broad similarities to that of Jesus. Very little of Horus' story does. A. Parrot (talk) 18:10, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * (Edit Conflict) See firstly our article Jesus Christ in comparative mythology and other articles linked from it. Egyptian influences in the Hebrew Bible may also be of interest.
 * You might check out the 1999 book The Jesus Mysteries for one recent and detailed exploration of these ideas. FWIW I've just read it, and while I don't go along with everything the authors suggest, a good deal of it seems congruent with other material I've read in this area (Pagan religions, early Christianity, general history of the period). Try to ignore the rather bitter sniping in the article's discussion pages: much of it seems to centre on a very minor question, irrelevant to the main thesis, about whether or not a particular artifact which was lost during the Second World War, whose picture is used on the cover, was genuine or not. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.201.110.244 (talk) 18:11, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * When Egypt converted to Christianity, statues of Isis with Horus were rededicated to Mary with Jesus. You literally cannot tell which religion a statue belongs to: the stylistic differences reflect when the statue was made, but not for which religion. The museum in Berlin has a series of them, starting Pagan and ending Christian, but with no break between.
 * But Christianity itself is not a direct continuation of Egyptian religion. It also has elements of Persian religion (Mithra), as well as a lot of Greek and of course Jewish religion. — kwami (talk) 20:09, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Do be careful, on this topic, not to stray to far into The Two Babylons style misinformation. 86.164.163.138 (talk) 08:57, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


 * A. Parrot please notice that "Isis has sex with Osiris to produce Horus" is a bit unclear. Osiris' penis was lost, eaten by a fish. Isis resorted to some magic solution to become pregnant (a magic spell or a penis of gold?). Flamarande (talk) 20:19, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I left that out for brevity's sake. The episode where Isis recreates Osiris' penis is present only in Plutarch's version of the story, and then it gets complicated (in Plutarch's narrative Horus is apparently already born when Osiris dies, and it's Harpokrates, a child form of Horus, who is conceived after Osiris' death). Source: Plutarch, De Iside et Osiride, translation and commentary by J. Gwyn Griffiths, 1970. A. Parrot (talk) 23:42, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Indeed. Set murdered Osiris and hid his body in a tamarisk tree. Isis found the body, reanimated her dead husband (who still had his penis at this point) and had sex with him.  Set then found the body and cut it into pieces where (in Plutarch's version) his penis was eaten by the nile perch. Elen of the Roads (talk) 19:23, 27 June 2011 (UTC)