Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2012 August 24

= August 24 =

How is this possible
I was reading the BBC and I came across this wonderful article. Many of the listed dishes include "edible gold"; how can gold be edible, and why would anyone want to eat it? (I assume it is a Veblen good effect thing?) 24.92.74.238 (talk) 02:58, 24 August 2012 (UTC)


 * It's relatively inert in the human body, meaning it neither does good nor harm (at least in the quantities they use). The reason to eat it is just for the novelty and sense of luxury. StuRat (talk) 03:09, 24 August 2012 (UTC)


 * See Goldschläger. -- Jayron  32  03:12, 24 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Gold leaf: it's 99% decoration and one-upmanship by the 1%. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:29, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * (ec)As part of my undergrad studies, I took a course on the toxic mechanisms of the transition metals. Metallic gold is not normally reactive in the human body, but the lecturer did note that metallic gold is taken as a treatment for rheumatoid arthritis, and that it may have toxic effects that are poorly understood. Given that I had recently seen a cocktail menu that included creations with gold flakes, I quizzed her about this she claimed that drinking such cocktails carry a high risk of causing health problems. I think she was speculating way outside of her area of expertise, and in general, she was prone to exaggerate the dangers of many metals.
 * As for the OP's original question, it might be related to Velben good type effects, but it's not really that expensive anyway. It's just flashy. You certainly can't taste it, so it can only really be a way to increase the food or drink's aesthetic appeal. Personally, I think it just looks tacky. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 04:48, 24 August 2012 (UTC)


 * You can get heavy metal poisoning from gold, but it would need to be in fairly large quantities. --Tango (talk) 11:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I was trying to remember where I heard that, and realised it was from the ever-reliable medical drama, House... in fact, this episode. The trivia section gives an estimate of just how much it would take to kill someone, and the article says it was a compound of gold rather than elemental gold which was used - I think elemental gold is much less likely to be absorbed. (I should try and remember which bits of information I gleam from reliable sources and which from episodes of House...) --Tango (talk) 11:53, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * This post (whose author I think is an internist, and who comments on every House episode) is positive about the episode's accuracy and links to the compound and its therapy. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 12:16, 24 August 2012 (UTC)


 * That BBC article did not pick out the most expensive burger even in New York City, the rightly-named Douche Burger (which prompted this short piece on eating gold from Slate. Short answer - eating a lot of gold will not cause you any health problems, but may indicate that you are a terminal asshole... ☯.Zen  Swashbuckler  .☠  15:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Voting Patterns in Poland and Romania
I found it very interesting that the voting patterns for Poland and Romania generally follow (with the exception of the coast in Romania) the pre-WWI vs. post-WWI territories for Romania and the pre-WWII vs. post-WWII territories in Poland. Is there any specific reason for these voting patterns, or is it just a coincidence? Thank you. Futurist110 (talk) 04:29, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You can see this--- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Poland_2007_election_results.jpg and this--- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Presidential_election_2009_second_round.png for reference. Futurist110 (talk) 04:35, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Well Poland A and B talk a little bit about it. It also cites some sources that you could check out. If you speak Polish it would help to read up more on that topic. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 04:56, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Unfortunately I don't speak Polish, though. Do you know anything about the same pattern in Romania? Futurist110 (talk) 05:51, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Regarding Poland,the topic was covered here on the wonderfull Strange Maps. Read the comments section for suggested explanations. Willy turner (talk) 18:57, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * See:
 * It's in Polish, but there's a fairly long sumary in English at the end and illustrations have English captions too. It's 12 years old now, but although the political scene of Poland has changed considerably during this time, I believe the general voting patterns have not. — Kpalion(talk) 10:02, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll take a look at it when I'll have a minute. I wonder if the same thing happened with Romania, since Austria-Hungary probably industrialized before the pre-World War I territory of Romania. Futurist110 (talk) 03:29, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Roman legio and the Kings of spain
Is castra legio VII Gemina List of Roman legions the origin of castile and the List of Navarrese monarchs Jimenez Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago (talk) 08:05, 24 August 2012 (UTC) Jose Luis Zambrano De Santiago (talk)

Alaric I was holy roman emperor. And pelayo was his noble man.

I been looking for the emblem castra legio but no record of it been found? And Gimena was a queen of Navarra correct?
 * According to Jiménez dynasty the scion of the family, García Jiménez of Pamplona has unknown origins. Jiménez (surname) is a name of hybrid origins, the Basque first name Jimeno or Semen (anthroponym) with the spanish ending -ez meaning "son of".  The original Basque name has no connections to Latin at all, Basque isn't even an Indoeuropean language, and has no connections to Latin.  It appears to be a native Basque name with no connection to the Latin word Gemina.  Interestingly, according to our articles, the Basque name "Semen" means "Son", so "Jimenez" means "son of son" or something like that.  But it does not appear that there is any connection between the Iberian dynasty and the Roman legion stationed there.  The article Kingdom of Castile also explains the origins of that name: It was originally a heavily fortified district of Asturias before becoming an independent kingdom.  As it was the place with a lot of castles, it had been named Castile.  The name derives from the 9th century, well after the Romans had left Iberia.  So, despite some coincidental similarities to the name of the Roman legion, neither the Jimenez dynasty nor the Kingdom of Castile has any origins in the Roman legions.  It's a coincidence.  -- Jayron  32  12:04, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

What does abbreviation "Phoeb. Fig." stand for?
Good afternoon (sorry for the mistakes),

I would like to know the meaning of the abbreviation "Phoeb. Fig." used in A Greek–English Lexicon, for example here or here. I suppose "Fig." is a work, because it is written in Italic type, "Phoeb. Fig." in some books (here for example).

Thank you. --Fsojic (talk) 14:20, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks to me like a reference to an author and a work (Phoeb. is the author's name and Fig. is the work name, both abbreviated). The full citation, with the full names, should be in the "works cited" or "bibliography" section.  Have you tried looking there?  Sometimes there is an appendix or introductory part that explains what abbreviations are used.  -- Jayron  32  14:28, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I haven't read through it for the specific abbreviation above, but I did find this section of the same book you gave. You should find what you are looking for there.  -- Jayron  32  14:31, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * (Actually, I had already checked in this book, but thank you anyway !) Unfortunately, the author writes p. 555, § 1243 : "abbreviations of Greek and Latin authors (and their works) generally agree with those used in the lexicons of Liddell, Scott, Jones [...] Abbreviations of authors not found in these reference works, or for whom another abbreviation has been used, are listed below.", which obviously means the abbreviations found in these reference are not listed below. Furthermore, pages 581-583 (580 ends with Perelman, C. and 584 begins with Rostagni, A.) are not shown in this preview : so if Phoeb. Fig. had been there I would not have been able to see it). Fsojic (talk) 15:00, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Foiled by missing pages. It chaps my ass when Google does that.  Presumably, one of the advantages of a digital book is that the pages can't fall out.  Except Google still finds a way to let that happen.  C'est la guerre.  -- Jayron  32  15:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It is a work by the 6th century rhetor Phoebammon called di Figuris on the subject of rhetorical figures. Listed here assuming that url works.  meltBanana  15:02, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Great, thank you very much ! This is exactly what I was looking for. Fsojic (talk) 15:09, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Damn! I was hoping the author would be revealed to be a name like "Phoebe Figworthy". The truth's no fun sometimes.  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  21:13, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You mean Phoebe Figalilly perhaps. ;-) 69.228.170.132 (talk) 02:34, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Phoibammon: Scholia peri schematon rhetorikon. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 00:57, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Can the OEO get specialized credentials for professionals who enter witness protection?
Say someone with all kinds of undergraduate degrees, graduate degrees, and state board certifications, like a neurosurgeon, was a crucial witness in a very big case the US government wanted to win, and he was taken into the witness protection program. Is it likely the Office of Enforcement Operations would, in addition to standard new identity pieces such as a birth certificate, SSN, etc., get equivalent college degrees and board certifications for the new identity, or do all witnesses, regardless of their skill sets in their old lives, only get enough documentation in their new identities to get the same grocery store or factory job? 20.137.18.53 (talk) 17:10, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The Wikipedia article United States Federal Witness Protection Program has some basic information, and based on some inferences I can make from what is written there, and from what I understand about the program, is that it is expected that the protected witness usually gets a new job or career and has to abandon all ties to their old life. For people with highly specialized degrees, it is very hard to "hide" if you keep your own job.  For example, the number of neurosurgeons in the U.S. is small enough that essentially all of  know each other either by reputation or directly, or enough that you'd be easily recognized.  If a brand-spanking-new neurosurgeon started practicing, and he looked exactly like Bill, and simultaneously Bill disappeared, it wouldn't take long for anyone to put two-and-two together, and that kinda defeats the purpose of witness protection.  People in witness protection are generally given low-profile jobs specifically because they are low profile.  Yes, it sucks if you have to abandon a job you love which required many years of training to get, but if the alternative is to be dead, many people would make that choice even if it has its hardships.  -- Jayron  32  17:16, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * In that case, I could see it being much more likely to have a highly skilled person with a good life who witnessed something simply choosing not to testify and say he saw nuthin' than someone whose qualifications in the life they have are already that of a wage slave. 20.137.18.53 (talk) 17:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Except that the people who committed the crime may know he saw something, and may not have any qualms with "offing" him just incase he gets a guilty conscience later. Sure, people can refuse witness protection, but keeping your head down and pretending it all didn't happen rarely goes well.  I suppose they may choose to do so, there's nothing stopping them, but insofar as they agree to be a witness and enter witness protection, it is impossible for someone who is in a highly specialized field to keep their jobs.  It has nothing to do with an arbitrary policy: if you're trying to hide, keeping your same circle of aquaintances is impossible for your own safety.  And pretending you didn't witness a crime that the perpetrators of the crime know you did witness, well, good luck with that.  -- Jayron  32  17:36, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I was imagining a scenario with the admittedly unsaid premise that the witness was not seen by or known to the defendant(s) in any way, shape, or form. Just to pluck it out of the nebulousness of abstraction, Joe Johnson is on his highrise balcony looking out at things with his binoculars and, in million-to-one fashion, sees in Central Park a mile away, Jimmy The Nose exactly as he shoots someone. And Joe is the only witness. Just trying to focus on the career question without anything else which would obviously push the decision. But I wonder about even simply a college degree. Surely, the number of electrical engineers in the US is not so rarefied that being one of them would necessarily make you stick out like a sore thumb. 20.137.18.53 (talk) 17:41, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * If someone witnesses a crime and no one, not the government nor the accused, knows or has any way to suspect, that the witness was involved in any way, then the deeper ethical/moral question is whether or not the witness should come forward at all. That's a deep philosophical issue, and probably not something that the Federal Witness Protection Program procedures enters into.  If you're concerned about what situations a person should or should not feel compelled to testify if they witness a crime, you're really discussing the issue of Moral responsibility.  I think, however, that this is likely an issue which is handled on a case-by-case basis.  It may be easier for an engineer to hide than a neurosurgeon.  The Wikipedia article does note, however, that the program pays for job retraining as needed; implying that changing careers would be something that is often needed.  -- Jayron  32  17:51, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't believe the witness protection program is here for such cases, when the criminals do not know who the witnesses are. In this case. There are other less cumbersome possibilities to protect witnesses of a crime. Simply letting them testify anonymously would be much easier. Comploose (talk) 23:19, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * If you take into account the effort required to pass such a constitutional amendment, you might find that it's actually just easier this way. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 21:09, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't believe people in the program are normally 'normal' citizens who witnessed a crime. I suppose they are mostly fellow mafia members who decided to testify against their peers. Don't expect any one of them to have a regular high specialized profession. Comploose (talk) 23:19, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's someone who has a specialized degree who could have potentially been in the Witness Protection Program: Robert Cooley. This does give some validity to the OPs question, would someone like this be given new credentials so that they could continue to practice law if they had chosen to enter the program? -- Daniel  00:14, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Question about celibacy in the Roman Catholic Church
In fact, I've two questions. If a virgin boy enters priesthood and takes up the celibacy vow, is he supposed to die a virgin? and my second question is who's next to the bed of a dying priest since they have no family. Isn't that kind of sad? To die alone Thank you. Nienk (talk) 21:36, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * First question: Obviously. Second question: A priest can have siblings, cousins, nieces, nephews, etc. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:45, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * There are exceptions, I think. A priest can be dispensed from his vow not to marry, at which time he will ordinarily be laicized (he remains a priest, technically, but is not allowed to perform priestly functions).  I don't know how hard such a dispensation is to get nor on what grounds it might be granted. --Trovatore (talk) 23:00, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's especially hard to get the dispensation, except that you might find the asking psychologically difficult. I'd have thought "I don't have a vocation to celibacy, as I previously thought, and so I need to be released to explore the vocation to marriage" would be enough, although you'd probably have to be prepared to discuss it to make it clear that you're not basing the decision on something else that can be resolved. It's not like the bishops would want to force someone to remain a pastoral priest who don't have a vocation to it. 86.169.212.200 (talk) 18:49, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * They can also have friends at their side. Some of my best friends know me better and are closer to me than some of my siblings.  So if I my siblings were to die, there'd still probably be a few people around my death bed.  Blood relatives aren't the only people who are necessarily close to you.  Dismas |(talk) 21:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * There are some cases of married Catholic priests, so for those extremely rare individuals, neither of your questions are an issue. 72.2.54.34 (talk) 00:15, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, there are. That's not the situation the OP describes, though. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:26, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You're right for the first question, but for the second, though extraordinarily rare, it does apply. Mingmingla (talk) 01:38, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, the second part of the second question was, "Isn't that sad?" Well, obviously, if he died alone, it could be sad. But that's based on an unwarranted conclusion. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:12, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Having worked in a hospice, I can tell you that many people choose to die alone to spare their families the sight of death. That's why good hospices are very careful to stress that it isn't the family's "fault" if they're not at the bedside when death arrives. Happens all the time - the family leaves and 15 min later.... --NellieBlyMobile (talk) 03:28, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * So it's not necessarily even sad. The visitors will have a lasting memory of their loved one as being alive the last time they saw him. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:32, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Ward Cunningham
Is his birth's location suppose to be kept secret or something? I mean we know he was born in the US but we don't know which city or state he was born in. That information usually is in the Wikipedia articles. I searched it up too and couldn't find it. So is there any reason that his birthday location is secret?184.97.233.160 (talk) 23:46, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Have you tried e-mailing him or otherwise contacting him? Because if sources don't discuss it, maybe nobody ever asked him. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:25, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Did you already search in Wikipedia? --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 01:11, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Michigan City, Indiana appears to be right. At least Ward's Home Page: Where I've Lived all my Life starts there. Of course, until he produces a long form birth certificate, we'll have to assume he's from Kenya. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:16, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that Kenya humor. I needed a good laugh right now. :)
 * You're welcome, o anonymous one. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:45, 26 August 2012 (UTC)