Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2012 May 20

= May 20 =

Are thumbnails in search engines fair dealing in Canada?
Based on Kelly v. Arriba Soft Corporation and Perfect 10 v. Google, it seems that the reproduction of low resolution image thumbnails for use in an image search engine is fair use in the United States. However, fair dealing in Canada gives exception to copyright infringement only for the purposes of research, private study, criticism, review, or news reporting. Unlike the United States fair use exception, the list of purposes in Canada's fair dealing exception is treated as exhaustive. Even the proposed bill C-11 would only introduce three additional exceptional purposes (education, parody, and satire).

So, how is Google's use of thumbnails in image search legal in Canada? I'm not asking for legal advice; I'm asking for pointers to any case law that establishes this, or any jurisdictional principles that allow this. Sancho 00:27, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * It may not be legal. Perfect 10 has a lawsuit against Google in Canada:  RudolfRed (talk) 00:49, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Charles Giraud
Which one is the actual painting by Charles Giraud? I am guessing the one on the right, but then where does the left one come from and who painted it and when?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 05:02, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe they both are? The uploader of the other one has been only sporadically active, but maybe you could get his attention. Meanwhile, just where is the painting, and does its owner have it posted somewhere online? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 06:09, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I know where the uploader got it (the left one) from; a google image search from a genealogical website, as simple as that, but I don't know it origins before that. The actual one is in the Musée de Tahiti et des Îles in Tahiti.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:41, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The portrait at the left, by Giraud, circa 1840, is in the musée du quai Branly (Paris, France), but it is not exhibited. You can see here (in French), its notice. — AldoSyrt (talk) 08:01, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Which is the original then? Who is the other by then? Was it a copy? And who exactly was Charles Giraud and when was he in Tahiti.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:19, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems that both were painted by Sébastien Charles Giraud. The left one is in the storeroom of the musée du quai Branly and the right one is exhibited in the musée de Tahiti et des îles. For the right one you can refer to this article (click on"download this pdf file"). Sébastien Charles Giraud was a painter and a drawer ; he took part to the French military expedition to Tahiti in 1846. Very few data on on the French WP, more here (in French) — AldoSyrt (talk) 13:22, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Is the one on the right supposed to appear masculine? Plasmic Physics (talk) 12:31, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I personally think the left one looks Europeanized.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:28, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Appropriate amount of wine to give neighbours
Around the world, how much wine (or another gift if for example in an Islamic country) would someone typically give their neigbours for letting them borrow their Flymo? Egg  Centri  c  18:33, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * One bottle ? (Less than one bottle would require that they drink it at that time, which might not be convenient, while more than one makes it seem more like a commercial transaction than a gift.) StuRat (talk) 18:38, 20 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree, if you're giving someone wine as a casual "thank you" gift, then it should almost always be one bottle. It's a token gesture, really, so anything else would seem a bit weird. What you can vary is the frequency with which you give them wine. You could give them one bottle a year, or you could give them a bottle every time you use it (although that would seem very generous to me). You need to be careful to make sure you don't give them cheaper wine than they buy for themselves, or they'll actually feel worse off because they have to drink poorer quality wine than they would otherwise have done (the fact that they didn't pay for it won't really be relevant). There is no need for it to be significantly more expensive than they usually buy, though - as I say, it's just a token.
 * I probably wouldn't give my neighbours a thank you gift for something like that, though - I would just expect to return the favour at some later date (perhaps I have a hedge trimmer they'll need, or a step ladder, or I can help them carry their new bed up the stairs, etc. - there are plenty of favours neighbours can do for each other). Another option is to offer to mow their lawn for them while you have their mower out. --Tango (talk) 11:46, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Appropriate amount of wine to give neighbours part 2
While I'm having the reference desk to my thinking for me, how much wine (or another gift if for example in an Islamic country) would someone typically give their neigbours when they've been invited to their daughters' 21st birthday party (when as a guest of the neighbour, not the daughter)? How much wine if their neigbour lets them borrow their daughter? Egg  Centri  c  18:58, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * To question 1, a standard size (1/5 gallon or 750 mL) bottle of wine is a nice gift. For the second question, I'm not sure what you mean by "borrow their daughter".  Most modern societies don't consider people to be chattel, and people don't "own" their children to be loaned out for "use" by others.  Daughters are not posessions like lawnmowers and chainsaws are, to be loaned to neighbors.  -- Jayron  32  19:08, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I am bemused that powertools were the first comparison you reached for though Jayron. Shadowjams (talk) 20:44, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Not really, given the nature of the previous question... V85 (talk) 16:31, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * "How much for the little girl?" Are the daughters fraternal or identical twins, by the way?  --  ♬  Jack of Oz  ♬  [your turn]  20:52, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The standard gift when invited to a party is a bottle of wine. That's appropriate in almost every situation. I understand that you shouldn't do that in France, though, since it's considered an insult on the host's choice of wine (that may not be true, but it's what I've heard). --Tango (talk) 11:49, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It's sort of true. If a neighbour does you a favour, "a drink" is the standard recompense, and a bottle of nice wine would be appreciated. For a formal dinner party, flowers are the standard offering. If I took wine instead I might say "I had some of the Chateau X left, and I know you like it. Don't feel the need to open it this evening." Would be interested to read any further comments from French users. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:07, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * According to John 2:6–10 and firkin, approximately 4770 L of wine (range 3816 L – 5724 L). I advise checking what they're drinking already to make sure that the wine you bring is of a higher quality. Fifelfoo (talk) 12:29, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I would suggest two bottles... one for your hosts (the parents) and one for the Birthday girl (the daughter). Blueboar (talk) 12:31, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No, that's incorrect, you shouldn't use the 'wine firkin' for John 2:6–10, because it's translated from Greek 'μετρητης', which is about 40 L, so the total is about 6 * 2.5 * 40 = 600 L; Still enough for about 6000 glasses of wine though (but wine in antiquity was generally less strong than today).
 * Damn you King James translators! Once again you condemn me with your lack of metrification!  Still 800 bottles of wine is a lot.  Fifelfoo (talk) 23:41, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The "borrowing" of the daughter cuts against social mores to a degree that we should consider intolerable consequently I recommend removing this question from the Reference desk. Bus stop (talk) 19:04, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, which is why it should be left publicly visible to that the person who suggested it can be made to be ashamed of it. Hiding the intolerableness of it does no good, we need to all know exactly the kind of person the OP is.  -- Jayron  32  19:17, 21 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I believe that the OP is making a joke at our expense, in the style of Ali G or Borat - a supposition based on a brief glance at their homepage. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Egg Centric. Alansplodge (talk) 20:08, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The majority of the question is entirely sincere. The bit about the daughter is so obviously a joke I refuse to accept it's at anyone's "expense" if they took it seriously, there was not the slightest thought in my mind that anyone would. Egg   Centri  c  11:30, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought it was a normal neighbourly request. As in "I know you're all busy preparing for the birthday party, but could we borrow your daughter for half an hour? The dishwasher's leaking again, and she's the only person around here who knows how to fix it." Itsmejudith (talk) 11:48, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If that is what the person meant, I would say that the renumeration shouldn't be given to the neighbours, but rather directly to the daughter directly. As it might be inappropriate to give the neighbours' daughter wine as a thank-you, I'd say give something else. V85 (talk) 19:47, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Fourteenth century English Parliament
In the article The Twelve Conclusions of the Lollards it seems to indicate that parliament took place every two years. Would that be correct for the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries? How often was parliament in King Richard II's time and King Edward III's time?--Doug Coldwell talk 23:07, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * List of Parliaments of England gives a complete list. Executive summary:  during that time period parliaments met on average about once a year, but not on any sort of regular schedule. Looie496 (talk) 23:23, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I do believe that answers my question. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell talk 23:32, 20 May 2012 (UTC)