Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2012 May 5

= May 5 =

presentness as opposed to presence
May someone know, please, in which philosophical text or context they have been used for the first time? Many thanks in advance. --Omidinist (talk) 12:32, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * A quick Google search credits it to Robert E. Spiller, on whom we don't have an article. He was apparently active in the late 60's/early 70's, but I haven't been able to find exactly which book the term originates from (as yet). Tevildo (talk) 13:47, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I would have associated that with St Augustine of Hippo / De Trinitate where he ponders the essence of time. Of course, this would depend on the specific translation (and possible interpretation) of Augustine´s Latin.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 15:14, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Can you help me find the exact place? Which book (I-XV)? Which chapter? --Omidinist (talk) 16:04, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Hesychius?
In Book 20, Chapter 5 of The City of God by St Augustine of Hippo, I find this sentence:

It is this which I have been at pains to do in a letter which I wrote to Hesychius of blessed memory, bishop of Salon, and entitled, "Of the End of the World."

Do we know which 'Hesychius' this is, and does the letter exist today? I don't see a letter to Hesychius in the list of Augustine's letters here: www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102.htm

86.140.54.3 (talk) 15:37, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Augustine's exchange of letters with Hesychius of Salona can be found in CSEL 57 as letters 197-199.See here. I don't know if there are any good English translations around. Iblardi (talk) 16:43, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * And this Hesychius is mentioned briefly in the "History" section of our article Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Split-Makarska. Deor (talk) 19:41, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, this was very helpful. By knowing which letter numbers they were, I was able to at least find detailed discussion of them, for example a thesis. It looks to me like some 19th century book chose to exclude these letters, among others, in their English translation, and so everyone sticking public domain translations up on the internet also excludes them. But I think I'll be able to find them now. Thanks, both of you. 86.140.54.3 (talk) 14:15, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

The preserved Pharaoh in Islam
The Quran talks about the Pharaoh of Egypt in Moses's time being drowned and his body being preserved by God for people to see. I know that several Pharaohs have been preserved in tombs and that a body would not resist decomposition in the sea. A google search for 'Islamic pharaoh preserved' turn up several pictures. My question is who is the Pharaoh in the pictures and is there any Pharaoh whose body was found in the sea or any other water body? Thanks. --116.71.49.113 (talk) 18:05, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Just because he was drowned doesn't mean he was also preserved in water. Is that what it said ?  Note that while a body will decompose in water, it can be preserved in other liquids, like formalin.  While this wasn't available then, perhaps they could have managed to distill alcohol. StuRat (talk) 18:11, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Most of the articles Ive seen so far don't mention a date when he was found and I doubt he was found at the time or a little after he drowned. Some of the articles Ive read say it was Ramesses II, but the Wikipedia article mentions nothing about him being found in the sea. Another dubious religious claim? --116.71.49.113 (talk) 19:04, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


 * We have an article on pharaohs in the Bible, with a section about the Book of Exodus, as well as an article on Islamic view of the Pharaoh of the Exodus. The Exodus is most commonly dated to the New Kingdom, and because of the burials in the Valley of the Kings from that era, we have the mummies of most, but not all, New Kingdom pharaohs. No pharaonic corpse has been retrieved from the sea, but many people have looked eagerly for signs of drowning on the known pharaonic mummies, as proof of the Exodus story. There was significant disappointment in the nineteenth century when Merenptah, a popular candidate, was found with no such signs.


 * I think you're probably looking for Ramesses II, another popular candidate for the Exodus pharaoh. This story talks about Ramesses' mummy and how people have claimed that the damage to Ramesses' body and the salt found inside it suggest that he was washed away in a chariot and soaked in seawater. The author (Zahi Hawass) dismisses the idea, but that seems to be the likeliest origin for the rumors you're talking about. Ramesses' mummy is also a popular one to photograph. A. Parrot (talk) 20:02, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Neither the Old Testament of Christians nor the Hebrew scriptures said that any Pharoah was drowned when the sea closed back after Moses and company crossed. The writings just said that the sea closed over the soldiers, horses, and chariots. Any scripture quotations to the contrary are welcome. That said, there is no historical evidence that anything like the parting of the sea and the 40 years in the wilderness ever actually happened. Edison (talk) 02:24, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Jewish traditional teaching is that he survived, but after the disastrous destruction of his army, couldn't bring himself to return to Egypt. Instead, he fled and went on to become king in Nineveh. This [ie prior experience!] nicely explains the remarkable reaction of the sinful king of a sinful city when Jonah reluctantly delivers his message of impending doom for the city. --Dweller (talk) 20:35, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Zahi Hawass disputes it? It must be true... Evanh2008 (talk) (contribs) 10:45, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Who ordered the construction of Tauride Palace?
Robert Massie in his book "Catherine the Great" (Kindle location 9716-23)claims Catherine had the Tauride Palace constructed for Potemkin. Wiki article claims Potemkin himself had it constructed. Who is right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.225.198.38 (talk) 20:55, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Sunlight At Midnight St. Petersburg And The Rise Of Modern Russia By W. Bruce Lincoln says; "Again acting on Catherine's orders, Starov built the Tauride Palace on an empty grassy knoll...". A History of Western Architecture By David Watkin agrees; "...his masterpiece, the Tauride Palace (1783-8), commissioned by Catherine for her lover, Gergory Potempkin...". Russia By Johann Georg Kohl "When Potemkin, the conqueror of the Khan of the Crimea, resided in the Tauride palace, presented to him, and afterwards purchased from him by Catherine..." However, Russian Architecture and the West By Dmitriǐ Olegovich Shvidkovskiǐ says; "the Tauride Palace... which he built for Gergory Potempkin...". I suspect that the financial arrangements between an autocrat and her paramore would not have been a matter of public record. Alansplodge (talk) 22:56, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, the large presents certainly were a matter of public record, it's just how one interprets them that's difficult. The Tauride palace was ultimately funded by Catherine on behalf of Potemkin as a reward for the peaceful annexation of Crimea ("Tauris" in its classical form) - ubt who "commissioned" or "built" it is a matter of perspective. Montefiore (the most comprehensive recent biographer of Potemkin) says that Catherine essentially said "Here's 100,000 roubles, go build a nice palace with it", which sounds a reasonable perspective on those events. - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 15:48, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Eritrea and Ethiopia
Why are Eritrea and Ethiopia seperate countries? I know some elements of their people's culture are different. The Amhara people and the Tigray-Tigrinya people. When in history did they became seperate ethinic groups? Has there been any talk of unification?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 21:22, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well Ethiopia being larger is more diverse. Omoro people are in the centre (where Addis Ababa is) there are also Somalis. Ethiopian PM Meles Zenawi is also Tigray. Mostly personality politics over a fiefdom of who controls what...but see the Eritrean War of Independence and Eritrean–Ethiopian War. It seems religious reasons played a large part (though there are plenty of Christian Eritreans and Muslim Ethiopians),,,Also across the diaspora Eritrans/Ehiopians are ain to Indians/Pakistanis. Same food, language, etc.Lihaas (talk) 22:35, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


 * KAVEBEAR -- One difference is that Eritrea was under European colonial domination for much longer than Ethiopia. More recently, the rebellion against the horrendous "Derg" Communist tyranny was organized partly along ethnic lines, and it was agreed between the different rebel groups that Eritrea would become independent when they were victorious.  When there came to be tension over where to draw the exact border between Ethiopia and Eritrea, the Eritreans arguably had the better legal position -- but then the Ethiopia-Eritrea war happened, and Eritrea lost the moral high ground in terms of international public opinion, because it was widely perceived to have chosen to start the fighting.  Eritrea also more or less lost the military fight, and the war destroyed any incipient Eritrean democracy, largely destroyed the Eritrean economy, and led Eritrea along a path of external alignments to where it is now considered by the United States to be a strong supporter and ally of extremist radical Islamic groups (some with al-Qaeda connections).  Any movement towards "unification" would basically be an admission that the whole idea of Eritrean nationalism and separatism was a big mistake... AnonMoos (talk) 00:17, 6 May 2012 (UTC)