Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2012 November 30

= November 30 =

Jewish holidays on 10th Muharram
When Prophet Muhammad PBUH saw the Jews fasting and ask them why they were doing it, they said that this was the day that Moses rescued the Hebrew people from Pharaoh Ramses II. Is there any sources from Islamic perspective or if possible from Jewish perspective whether the holiday that the Jews were fasting on was either Passover or Yom Kippur? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Donmust90 (talk • contribs) 01:45, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Passover is the day that commemorates the Exodus. The fast observed in preparation for Passover is the Fast of the Firstborn, occuring the day before passover.  The day of Passover, there is a ritual meal to break the fast called the Passover Seder.  -- Jayron  32  01:50, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * According to the Hebrew Wikipedia article on the 10th of Muharram&lrm; (which is well sourced, with references to Islamic and scholarly sources), the month of Muharram originally corresponds to the Hebrew month Tishrei. Thus, the 10th of Muharram is the 10th of Tishrei - in other words, Yom Kippur. The same article notes that the reason the Jews fave Muhammad for the fast do not appear in Jewish sources (the Bible does not mention the reason for the date, only that it is the day of Atonement for all the sins of the year. In Jewish rabbinic tradition, Yom Kippur is the day Moses convinced God to forgive the Jews for the Golden Calf. הסרפד (Hasirpad) [formerly Ratz...bo] 19:32, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * See Day of Ashura. הסרפד (Hasirpad) [formerly Ratz...bo] 03:44, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Verification on the Chenier Cell considering itself the "most macho of the FLQ"?
I am doing some research on this the 1970 October Crisis in Quebec (Canada) and the Front du Liberation de Quebec and was wondering if anyone could provide a more reliable source than the one I have currently that mentions this. Here is my current source, which I am not confident in using as a citation on my paper. It says that the Chenier Cell was surprised after the Liberation Cell kidnapped James Cross because the Chenier Cell considered themselves the "most macho of the FLQ" If anyone can give me sort of information on the Chenier Cell I would appreciate it. 199.189.89.55 (talk) 02:31, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I would start here Bibliography of the Front de libération du Québec if you can't read French, but the French wiki page du Front de lib%C3%A9ration du Qu%C3%A9bec has a much more extensive (and reputable) list of publications and even some audio and video from the time.Hfeatherina (talk) 08:06, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Large Articles/Papers on Race/Ethnicity History in National Censuses
Does anyone know of any other large articles/papers like this one for the U.S. (http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0056/twps0056.html) that discuss the history of race/ethnicity and its categories on that country's census? It would be nice to have some to expand this article (Race and ethnicity in censuses) a bit more. Thank you very much. Futurist110 (talk) 09:00, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * For the UK, I found Ethnicity and Second Generation Immigrants. Alansplodge (talk) 15:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you. However, while that paper is interesting it doesn't really talk that much about the various census options in regards to race and ethnicity throughout history. It was still a good read, though. Futurist110 (talk) 09:49, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

the sinking of the “Girona” ship
Dear Sir or Madam: I am currently working on a book on UK banknotes and fond this picture of ‘the sinking of the “Girona” ship’. I have attached the link and the photo.

I am trying to locate the origin of the painting that is who and when it was painted and cannot find any information like that linked to the pic.

I would like to use this pic in my book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GalleassGirona.JPG

Please advise Yigal Arkin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.177.250.86 (talk) 16:12, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The user who uploaded the image, User:Notafly, is active on Wikipedia.  The image was uploaded as that user's own work, which would mean that you could reuse it provided you complied with the conditions at Reusing Wikipedia content.  I suggest you leave a message at User talk:Notafly, asking them for more information about the painting and the artist. -  Ka renjc 21:50, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

A large print of this painting is on display (with relics recovered from the ship) at the Ulster Museum, Belfast. I suspect the painting was created for the museum.Colin Johnston (talk) 22:11, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Street grids
What drove (sorry for the pun) city planners to make street grids as those in Washington? They seem made for the traffic of lots of cars, which weren't available at the time. Where horse coaches so common that they got traffic jams? Comploose (talk) 17:49, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * There's some commentary at 1811 Commissioners' Plan and the links from there. The center of Washington D.C. is considered to have a "baroque" style street layout, as opposed to simpler rectangular grid plans common in cities originally planned in the 19th century... AnonMoos (talk) 18:07, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * A more relevant article is L'Enfant Plan. The main motivation behind the grid is that it makes for the rational organization of a city and (probably more importantly) facilitates the creation of uniform and rectangular parcels for sale by land agents.  (Uniform, rectangular parcels are easier to value and more valuable because they are easier to build on than irregular parcels.)  The main reason why Washington was not built as a pure grid was the desire for grand avenues radiating out from squares and major centers of government such as the White House and Capitol.  This was partly an aesthetic desire, but there may have been an element of military planning because such radial avenues afford sentries a view in several directions, better enabling them to detect the approach of hostile forces. Marco polo (talk) 21:17, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, rectangular grids certainly make life easier, as those, combined with a logical naming convention, like numbered streets in one direction, and avenues in another, make maps unnecessary. Simply knowing where you are and want to go is sufficient, even if detours are needed.  However, some people find such grids ugly, and, of course, there's the problem where you encounter natural barriers or two differently oriented grids collide. StuRat (talk) 21:37, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Or eighteen differently oriented grids, if you're the City of Winnipeg Planning Department. --NellieBlyMobile (talk) 06:54, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Military considerations can be important too. Something like Haussman's design for Paris would have been very helpful for a government which wanted an organised army (and artillery) to have the upper hand against occasional mobs of rebellious citizens; the latter would have the advantage in narrow, twisty streets, especially with a barricade or two. bobrayner (talk) 18:30, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, to correct one thing the OP said about grids and automobiles: Grids are actually bad for cars. Cities planned around street grids usually (not always, so don't go dig up counterexamples) predate widespread automobile usage.  Urban planners found out pretty quickly that grids tend to make driving hard, because to efficiently move cars over long distances quickly, you want to funnel them onto high-capacity roads as fast as possible.  A wide-ranging grid of roughly equal capacity roads quickly becomes a traffic nightmare (i.e. Manhattan).  Starting in the mid-20th century, urban planners began using the Street hierarchy plan, which isn't a "grid" at all.  Instead, it works more like the body's circulatory system:
 * Small neighborhood cul-de-sacs feed into a few streets that provide access to the neighborhood
 * These few entrances provide access to small Collector roads that connect a bunch of individual neighborhoods to:
 * The Arterial road which is usually a wide boulevard that contains all of the major shopping centers and strip malls, these then provide access to:
 * Controlled-access highways which are the main links between the residential and industrial areas, or between one city and another.
 * You see this sort of urban planning in cities which grew up in the middle-to-late 20th century, especially in areas known derisively as suburban sprawl. If you look at the greater metro areas of cities like Washington, D.C. or Atlanta, you see the system at work extensively.  It's ALL organized like this, because, for all that it gets derided for, suburban sprawl (the heirarchy organization) actually works for a automobile-centric transportation culture.  -- Jayron  32  04:39, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Agape
Is there any benefit to this form of love? The wiki article on this cites: "an intentional response to promote well-being when responding to that which has generated ill-being". Riiiiiiiight. From my understanding, such a love would be extremely counter-intuitive. Can it increase the survival of your species in some way, shape, or form? What is "ill-being"? Does it have to be a human being, or can it be anything or anyone that harms you and decreases your reproductive success in the long run? Or does "agape" simply mean "make a good out of a bad situation"? 140.254.226.230 (talk) 18:33, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Never mind. I think I have answered my own question here. -_- 140.254.226.230 (talk) 18:40, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * On second thought, the linked page that I've added sounds like a person's college thesis (it is, really). The person seems to define "agape" as "unconditional, universal love" that can be applied to non-Western or pre-Christian cultures. 140.254.226.230 (talk) 18:47, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * So, has you made up your mind now? Comploose (talk) 19:12, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * What Oord is saying with the definition given is that agape is a motivating feeling for altruism. You may have more success in searching for "altruism and evolution".  For example, see reciprocal altruism. -- Atethnekos (Discussion, Contributions) 20:12, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Ask yourself how humans would have survived if everyone looked out only for their own personal interests while caring nothing about the interests of others? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:19, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't say "caring nothing about the interests of others". For example, if an individual cannot reproduce children for whatever reason, then that individual may help care for his younger brothers and sisters, or if they are all grown, care for his siblings' children (nephews and nieces). His siblings' children would still be related to the said individual, because they share the same ancestor. It's called kin selection. Homosexuals are probably one of those people who cannot reproduce babies. But they may adopt children of their close relatives, if their close relatives die. 140.254.226.230 (talk) 21:14, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Cannot? A lot of homosexuals have in fact reproduced.  I am one such.  --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  21:32, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * And Oscar Wilde too. Alansplodge (talk) 01:36, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh yes. But I at least had the presence of mind not to name my sons Cyril and Vivian. (No offence to Cyrils and male Vivians out there.) :)  --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  01:45, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * At least gay men are less likely to name their sons Hymen. :-) StuRat (talk) 02:05, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe unless the mother was Delores Mulva. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:40, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "Vivian" is one of many former boy's names that are now used mostly for girls. See Unisex name. -- BenRG (talk) 20:41, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * True. Actually, Oscar's son was a Vyvyan.  How like a homo [sexual] to go for another homo [phone] .  :)  --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  21:14, 2 December 2012 (UTC)


 * There is a social benefit to caring about others without first asking "What's in it for me?" ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:28, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Tocharian city states
Hello,

in 325 BC, how was Tarim Basin organized? What kingdoms where there?

And in South East Asia, where there kingdoms on the isles?

And in South Asia, was there the Sinhala kingom?

Also were there any central or south African kingdoms (except Meroe, Axum and Damot)?

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 19:16, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * We can't offer a certain answer to your first two questions, as archaeology from the region is spotty and inconclusive, as are written sources (only in Chinese) before the 2nd century. Probably there were simple states, perhaps with a tribal component, but we don't really know. As for insular Southeast Asia, there are no written sources from that period.  The archaeology suggests chieftancies covering no more than a few villages.  These were probably not kingdoms in the sense of states with any bureaucratic apparatus or extensive territory. The Sinhala kingdom mentioned in the Mahabharata is believed to refer to a kingdom on present-day Sri Lanka.  However, the Mahabharata is a work of fiction.  During the 4th century BCE, the dominant kingdom on Sri Lanka was the Anuradhapura Kingdom. As for Central and South Africa, again, there are no written sources, and the archaeological evidence does not suggest a level of political organization much higher than individual villages.  Marco polo (talk) 21:07, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * See Kingdom of Zimbabwe. 216.93.234.239 (talk) 23:26, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Zimbabwe is about 1500 years too late for this question. Adam Bishop (talk) 23:30, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Where does the question ask for a date for African kingdoms? 216.93.234.239 (talk) 00:11, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I expect the poster is looking for the situation in 325 BC. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:18, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

My question is regarding 325 BC. I've another question, in North America, there were two city states of Maya, where were they located and how big where they? Also in South America, was there a kingdom?

Concering the Tarim Basin, are there actually scripts from that time regarding it or not?

And in Japan, was there already the Japan kingdom and how big was it?

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 09:04, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * For the Maya, see Preclassic Maya. Adam Bishop (talk) 19:18, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * In South America, the most important civilization was the Chavín culture. Its archaeology suggests a fairly sophisticated state.  It might have been a monarchy (kingdom) or a theocracy; we aren't sure.  In Japan there was almost certainly no unified kingdom.  This was the early Yayoi period, and political organization was probably tribal or clan-based.  The Yuezhi people, as they are known in Mandarin Chinese, may have been Tocharian-speakers, and are believed to have lived in the Tarim basin at the time that interests you.  They are mentioned in ancient Chinese texts such as the Yizhoushu or the Guanzi.  There is little more than a mention.  These texts don't offer descriptions of the Tarim Basin, which was a barbarian region from the Chinese perspective and therefore of limited interest only as a source of trade goods or a potential military threat. Marco polo (talk) 01:48, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer, what region did the Maya city states control? And concerning military, in that time, was there any kingdom (except Rome, Nanda, Gangaridai) which had special units as the Nanda dynasty fought with elephants?

And the Chavín nation had artifacts built from the bones of marine animals, could they construct advanced ships or only boats? Aside the Chavín, are there other South American nations?

What can be said about the Danywhadi kingdom?

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 19:53, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Looking in the Congressional Record
I have been trying to find online records of the floor debates in the senate on the passage of the 17th amendment in 1811, but all the places I have found online don't go back far enough. Can anyone help me out and give me a link to where I can find it? Thanks. Rabuve (talk) 19:59, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you mean 1911? 216.93.234.239 (talk) 23:28, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Check "American Memory" at the Library of Congress website, and also the archives of The New York Times. You may have to read physical or microfilm copies of The Congressional Record at a moderately-large library if the text is unavailable on line. —— Shakescene (talk) 13:42, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Portrait of Henry Pitman
Does anybody know any information about the portrait of Henry Hoʻolulu Pitman (1843–1863), who the son of Bostonian Benjamin Pitman and his Hawaiian wife Kinooleoliliha? Here and here and here. I think it could possibly be in a museum in New England since the family moved back there after Kinoole's death and Henry also fought in the Civil War. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 20:00, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The image title that shows up in the Google search snippet for this page (though the text isn't on the displayed page itself) suggests that, like this portrait of his mom, it's in the collection of the Peabody Essex Museum. Deor (talk) 21:10, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Recipient nomination
What could it mean? Recipient Post nominal/Singles(s) M.L.A, C.M., PHD, P.C., etc.? Keeeith (talk) 23:51, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

It would also be nice if you could provide some more information in your question. In short: What the hell is your question? --Saddhiyama (talk) 23:55, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Dunno about the "singles", but it's asking you to list the nominee's post-nominals, like PhD, MD, etc. Are you recommending someone for the Canadian Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal? --jpgordon:==( o ) 01:18, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Here's where it's from. But the "singles(s)" thing stumps me, too.  Is there even such a word as "singless", and if so, what's its relevance to this matter?  --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  01:31, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Very strange. I wonder if it was originally meant to be "Recipient Post nominal/Initial(s)" and someone got worried that applicants would mistake it to be the place to put their "initials" (as in the first letters of their names)? Seems far-fetched, but I'm at a loss. Our article doesn't help; none of those post-nominal letters is a single letter. Matt Deres (talk) 14:46, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I've never heard of a postnominal consisting of a single letter, and I'd be most surprised to discover such a beast exists. --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  22:04, 1 December 2012 (UTC)