Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2013 April 11

= April 11 =

Mariam's bedroom
What would have the bedroom of Queen Mariam Tsitsishvili of Georgia's bedroom look like? The picture in the article depicts a more Persian/Eastern influenced setting with cushions while this documentary clip (www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5lzOotHNSQ) made by Georgians shows a more Western setting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Emperor's New Spy (talk • contribs) 02:42, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Aren't you assuming she only had one bedroom? I'd expect a queen to have a few more. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:55, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Georgian Lovers (1797).JPG The picture in the article is from 42 years later; the video is inaccurate in that it shows a cold-blooded stabbing whereas sources say it happened in the heat of the moment when a soldier grabbed her foot. I don't know how you evaluate what is correct.


 * It's hard to find contemporary artworks that show interiors. Looking in the commons category History of Georgia, I found her father-in-law with a small table and her father-in-laws' throne. The picture to the right here (The Georgian Lovers) is a 1797 drawing (so contemporary), but the artist is English and basing it on someone else's description, so I don't know if it's accurate either.


 * What about contacting the "Friends of the Georgian National Museum"? Phone and email are here. 184.147.116.201 (talk) 15:21, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Patron Saint of Belgium; existence and coherent identity of Belgium before 1830
From fr:Joseph_(Nouveau_Testament) :

...il y a 330 années, à la demande du roi Charles II d’Espagne, le pape Innocent XI proclamait saint Joseph patron de la Belgique, donc bien avant l’indépendance du pays en 1830.

(no citation given)

But did a concept of Belgium exist at all before 1830? Would it not be patron of the Netherlands or the Spanish Netherlands, or patron of Brabant, Flanders, Hainaut etc?

--192.76.7.212 (talk) 10:37, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd love to see a source for any of this, but it looks from that as though the Spanish Netherlands were intended - seeing as it was Carlos II who made the request. AlexTiefling (talk) 10:39, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The Southern Netherlands or Belgica Regia in Latin, was roughly analogous with modern Belgium. Netherlands troops who fought with the allies at Waterloo in 1815 were known to the British as "Dutch-Belgians". Alansplodge (talk) 13:06, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The United States of Belgium was a short-lived state formed when the Southern Netherlands revolted against Austrian rule. (And if the Southern Netherlands article is correct, the Latin term for the Austrian Netherlands was Belgium Austriacum). The term Belgium clearly had some traction prior to 1830. Valiantis (talk) 21:38, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * How odd - I took my Latin from the Belgium article. Perhaps it changed over time. The Latin name comes from the Belgae, a group of tribes that lived in the low countries and also invaded the south coast of England. Alansplodge (talk) 21:49, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Ever since, historians have referred to that notorious episode as "the USB shtick". :)  --  Jack of Oz  [Talk]  08:42, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

trying to remember name of a 19th century mystic
I was obsessed with him for a while, now his name escapes me - he was a concert violinist, in Austria, maybe - he went a bit funny - got messages from god about the creatures that populate the solar system - among the animals on Jupiter, I remember, were elephants with big pyramidal feet that stamped down the earth prior to the natives making roads...

Thanks for any help Adambrowne666 (talk) 11:11, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Jakob Lorber, perhaps? I'm almost certain it was Jakob Lorber, based on some of the e-versions of his works here.   --some jerk on the Internet    (talk)  17:48, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

That's the one! Thanks heaps! Adambrowne666 (talk) 21:34, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

British term
A friend who does not use Wikipedia has asked the following question. I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone knows the answer for them!

"Does anyone know what the preferred term currently is in British medicine for 'criminally insane'?"

Cheers. doktorb wordsdeeds 13:29, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The problem here is that "criminal" is a legal definition, not a medical one. A criminal is someone who has been tried and found guilty of a crime by a court of law.  That said, Antisocial personality disorder and psychopathy might be of interest. --Viennese Waltz 15:10, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm certain that "criminally insane" is now obsolete. I suspect that the relevant legislation is the Mental Health Act 1983, but I'm no lawyer. The former "Broadmoor Criminal Lunatic Asylum" is now plain old Broadmoor Hospital which is categorised as a Psychiatric secure unit. Alansplodge (talk) 16:42, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Cheers chaps :) doktorb wordsdeeds 16:52, 11 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Criminally insane has it all explained. OsmanRF34 (talk) 00:28, 12 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Britain has several criminal law jurisdictions. Insanity in English law explains the legal position in England and Wales. I am pretty sure that "criminally insane" would still be accurately understood by English lawyers, but not sure if there is a now a more fashionable term for the same concept. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:19, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

The Queen of Denmark wants parts of Scotland back
"Queen Margrethe II of Denmark revives claim of right under 500 year old Udal Law to reclaim sovereignty of Shetland and Orkney Isles." I believe I understand the background of the story, but I am curious about the supposed recent developments. The present story sounds a bit too medieval to be true.


 * 1) Why am I unable to find more about this on the internet? If true, I would expect something like this to generate much more interest.
 * 2) Why is this the Queen of Denmark's business? The islands were part of the Kingdom of Norway. If anyone, her cousin the King of Norway should claim them.
 * 3) Why should interest rates be calculated? Didn't the Church prohibit that at the time of Margaret of Denmark-Norway's marriage to James III of Scotland? Surtsicna (talk) 13:29, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should take another look at that article. Especially the name of its author. (Hint: try reading the name out loud). --Dweller (talk) 13:36, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * As I thought, too strange to be true, though the supposed comment by David Starkey was enough for me not to dismiss it right away. Well, while we're at it, has it occurred to anyone to pay the dowry and claim the islands back? Surtsicna (talk) 14:00, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I suspect that the story is a complete fabrication, including the comments by David Starkey, perhaps to put the cause of Scottish independence in a bad light (judging from the website it was posted on). There is nothing mentioned about this in Danish media anywhere, and believe me, it would have been a big story here if such a claim had ever been made by Queen Margrethe. Edit: I am no native English speaker, and even less fluent in Scottish, so what exactly is the name of the author supposed to mean when reading it out loud? "I laugh ..." something? --Saddhiyama (talk) 14:10, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I am not a native speaker and could not understand what the last name should sound like either. When Dweller suggested that I pay attention to the name of the author, I first thought Ilaf sounded somewhat Scandinavian (probably due to similarity to Olaf) - and then I pronounced it. Anyway, it would certainly be quite inappropriate for a constitutional monarch to make such a claim, but has anyone (whether in Norway, Denmark or in the UK) recently proposed paying the dowry in order to claim the islands? Surtsicna (talk) 14:34, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "I laugh my head off" - 'my' = 'ma', 'head' = 'heed' in Scottish English. There is another down below - 'Gerritupyeson' = 'get it up you, son' (doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to work out what this means!) KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 14:52, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I've heard it suggested, informally and partly in jest, that if Scotland becomes independent, Orcadians and Shetlanders might in turn secede, and consider rejoining Norway. As far as I know, no-one of any standing has made such a suggestion, though. Denmark, of course, does not feature. AlexTiefling (talk) 15:01, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * There is indeed a serious movement to keep Shetland in the Union if Scotland secedes. See Shetland asks if independence vote is chance to break away from Scotland. That will bugger-up the Scots' oil claims. Alansplodge (talk) 16:27, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

 --Dweller (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd just like to comment on why it might be Denmark, rather than Norway, that the islands returned to. (Granted that the story is fake, it might not have relevance, but it does refer to enough historical documents to make this interesting.) The reason is the Kalmar Union, as mentioned in the article: Before the Kalmar Union, Norway governed also Iceland and Greenland, but as Norway was given to Sweden and then gained independence, Norway's 'dependent territories' remained under Danish rule. This could be why, if such a historic document were to exist, Denmark would be modern-day country benefitting, and not Norway.
 * What I reacted most to, is the use of the currency 'kroner', which didn't come into existence till the 19th century. A 16th century document would have referred to a different currency. V85 (talk) 15:49, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

about find the originals of an old book Mentioned in Wikipedia
Hello! In the following website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduchess_Sophie_of_Austria Talking about "Sophie Friederike Dorothea Maria Josepha", He shows me the name of the original book from where the story is taken,

as follows: '''von Wurzbach, Constantin (June 1857). "Habsburg, Sophie (1855-1857)". Biographisches Lexikon des Kaiserthums Oesterreich 23 (2). '''

I am very very interested to find the copy of the page from the original book, where is writing this story, or some of those information.

Thank you for trying to help me Demecser (talk) 17:13, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * If it's a scan you want, here it is: http://www.literature.at/viewer.alo?objid=11810&page=155&scale=3.33&viewmode=fullscreen
 * הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) (formerly R——bo) 18:41, 11 April 2013 (UTC)