Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2013 August 16

= August 16 =

court overturns guilty plea?
How can the state supreme court overturn a conviction if he pleaded guilty? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 01:44, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * If any number of legal technicalities crop up (and there are a great many possibilities as to what they could be), any plea or verdict could be overturned by the appropriate court. Your link didn't work, and I'm no lawyer, so I couldn't say anything about this case. Mingmingla (talk) 02:18, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Link fixed. I've heard of convictions overturned because of new evidence or improper conduct by the prosecutor, but this judge pleaded guilty and his conviction was overturned.  The last paragraph gives some explanation (and it was a federal court).  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 02:25, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * (ec) I believe I found the correct link (Bubba, it looks like you left out a space). Quoting from the article,
 * A federal court overturned Blitch's conviction last year after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in an unrelated case that the charge only applies when there's evidence that a defendant accepted bribes or kickbacks. There was no such evidence in Blitch's case.
 * So at some level this seems perfectly logical; the charge to which Blitch pled lacked a factual basis, so the plea bargain was overturned. Whether that means he could be retried on the original charges, well, I'm sure lawyers get paid to argue over that very thing. --Trovatore (talk) 02:28, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know what year the original offense dates to, but offhand, I'd guess the statute of limitations has run on it. Travatore is right. One could plead guilty to a crime later found to be unconstitutional, or otherwise defective. The manner in which the judgement was entered shouldn't matter to the question of if the law was legitimate. Keep in mind too that a plea is not some legal mea culpa that screams out for punishment, it's simply an acknowledgement that the charges in the plea are correct. That doesn't speak to the legitimacy of the law itself. Shadowjams (talk) 02:53, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * A plea of guilty is just evidence not proof. Some people go around saying they are guilty of things. In For some crimes like terrorism a plea of guilty without good supporting evidence is indicative of innocence. Dmcq (talk) 10:43, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It's not "evidence" in a technical sense, but you're referring to it colloquially I'd assume. Shadowjams (talk) 21:47, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Typically a guilty plea includes a requirement that they describe what they did and how they did it, presumably to make sure the plea is sincere and that they're not just blowing smoke. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:55, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * The judge pleaded guilty to one count of corruption so they would drop the other 13 counts. I don't think it was long enough ago for the statute of limitations to come into play.  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 16:22, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I only mention the SoL because it only matters on things they didn't originally charge, or dropped. When was the original offense? Shadowjams (talk) 21:47, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * For the record too, the judge resigned in 2008, the charges were brought in 2009... the SoL on most federal crimes like that is 5 years, so if they hadn't brought charges, it's quite likely the SoL would have run. I'm oversimplifying some of the tolling and continuing offense issues, but you get the idea. Shadowjams (talk) 21:51, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe that he was charged right before he resigned, which was in 2008. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 00:47, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Lists of altlases
Is there a list somewhere on Wikipedia of WP:RS dictionaries, encyclopedias, atlases and such? Chrisrus (talk) 03:41, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't know the answer to that, but do note that those are all tertiary sources, and as such are generally disfavored as sources for Wikipedia. Encyclopedias shouldn't be based on other encyclopedias (as a general rule); they should summarize, and point the reader to, reliable secondary sources.  Tertiary sources are better than nothing, but not really good. --Trovatore (talk) 03:51, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It's for finding the names of places, when there is disagreement at an article. Say a person wanted to know the name of a place, where should we send them? Chrisrus (talk) 05:35, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * How about a Gazetteer, or the listings of an official governmental geographical names board... AnonMoos (talk) 06:45, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, they asked for a list of authoritative atlases and encyclopedias such as one might use to settle disputes about the names of places. But I suppose I could come back with a list of Gazetteers, if that's what you recommend for finding commonly used modern place names. Chrisrus (talk) 10:35, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Kaiulani photo
Can anyone with a better eye help me make out what is written below this image after princess kaiulani?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 15:08, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It appears to say "Prinses Kaiulani, nicht der Koningin", which would be Dutch for "Princess Kaiulani, niece (or female cousin) of the Queen" - Lindert (talk) 15:29, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay. Thanks. Never thought it would be in German. I thought it was Kingston or Virginia or something.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:19, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Charles Warren Stoddard
Was this passage about the Lahaina mausoleum in this book written in 1904 from memory or written down at an earlier point and compiled? When did Charles Warren Stoddard visit Lahaina on the island of Maui?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 15:12, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The letter Stoddard transcribes on p. 263 of the second edition (1907) of his earlier book South Sea Idyls—that chapter doesn't appear to be in the 1873 first edition—suggests that he was in Lahaina in 1871, at least. (The penultimate paragraph of the preceding "idyl" makes it clear that Kahéle was a resident of that town.) However, the "Polynesia" section of the WP article about Stoddard says that he made five trips to the South Seas in all, so he may have been there more than once. If you can get hold of the book Charles Warren Stoddard (1977) by Robert L. Gale, of which I'm able to see only snippet views in Google Books, you may find more there, as he mentions the "Palaoa" piece. Deor (talk) 19:15, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Edward T. Perkins
Does anyone know anything about Edward T. Perkins, the author of Na Motu: Or, Reef-rovings in the South Seas and artist of the lithographs within? When exactly was he in the South Seas? What was his occupation or purpose there? What did the T. in his name stand for? When and where was he born? When did he die?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 15:17, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Some scanty information in Hawaiian National Bibliography, Vol 3: 1851-1880 edited by David W. Forbes (pp. 118-119; "Perkins, a sailor before the mast, arrived in Hawaii April 20, 1849 in the American whale ship Planet (Capt. Peter Smith Buck)..."
 * "No biographical information on the author has been found in Hawaii or eleswhere... Perkins was probably from New York, as he dedicates this book to Dr. Jarvis M. Andrews of that city." Alansplodge (talk) 16:18, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I seem that source before. So nothing else is known about this man other than what Forbes said?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:21, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I also found The Church in the Confederate States: A History of the Protestant Episcopal Church in the Confederate States (1912) (scroll down the page, about two thirds] "List of Clergymen of the Church who served as Chaplains in the Army of the Confederate States - Diocese of Virginia - 20. Rev. Edward T. Perkins" Whether that's actually the same bloke is anybody's guess.
 * Interestingly, Na Motu gets a mention here as the earliest record of the phrase "to knock seven bells out of someone". Alansplodge (talk) 17:29, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

No development without peace, no peace without development
I am trying to find the original source of this quote. It is most famously attributed to Kofi Annan in 2005. It may have been said by Sadako Ogata in 1995, though I can't find that quote or speech. In 1994 there was an article in a small South African journal called Track Two, titled "Development's Catch-22: No development without peace, no peace without development". (Track Two, February 1994, Bremner). Can anyone help by pointing to any earlier sources or citations for this quote? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.173.50.210 (talk) 15:30, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * It appears to have been the title of a speech by Mohammed Bedjaoui in 1981 or 1982; he also repeats the words in the text of the talk. See IFDA Dossier 27. 184.147.136.32 (talk) 17:16, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

spoken/written forms of sign languages
i am aware that some have tried to create sign language versions of spoken/written languages (like signing exact english), but how about the other way round? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.255.141.194 (talk) 17:15, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * See "SignWriting".—Wavelength (talk) 17:21, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Tomb for horses
When and how did Babieca die? Also is there any other tombs for famous horses?--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 21:22, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * To your second question, there's Traveller (horse), John Henry (horse), Domino (horse), Fair Play (horse), Longfellow (horse), Ten Broeck, Blackie (horse) and probably many more. Bucephalus also famously had a city founded over his grave, though I think the exact location is no longer known. 184.147.136.32 (talk) 22:47, 16 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Not really tombs, but one of Napoleon's horses, Vizier, is stuffed in the French Army museum at Les Invalides, while another called Marengo which was captured shortly after Waterloo and lived to be 38, has his skeleton preserved at the National Army Museum, London. Alansplodge (talk) 23:54, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Wellington's horse Copenhagen does have a grave at Stratfield Saye House, with the eptaph; "God's humbler instrument though meaner clay / Should share the glory of that glorious day." Alansplodge (talk) 00:01, 17 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe a stretch to say it was found in a "tomb", and the horse it came from is only posthumously famous (and still somewhat anonymous), but there's this oldest genome ever sequenced from permafrost in the Yukon. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:18, 17 August 2013 (UTC)


 * In answer to the first part of your question, Animals in the Military: From Hannibal's Elephants to the Dolphins of the US Navy by John Kistle (p.120) says: "Babieca lived in retirement for two years, dying at the old age of 40. (Steiner, 79; Kelekna, 238; Edwards, 35, 99–102; Sinclair, 33)". Alansplodge (talk) 17:21, 17 August 2013 (UTC)


 * And finally, I found a picture of the grave of Red Rum at Aintree Racecourse, who won the Grand National five times and is probably the most famous British race horse in living memory. Alansplodge (talk) 00:47, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I would call all these graves rather than tombs. So, I am guessing no one in history was crazy enough to bury a horse in its own mausoleum or underground tomb, etc?--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 01:00, 18 August 2013 (UTC)


 * A quick Google brought up 1960's view of Horse Mausoleum at Calderwood Castle, East Kilbride. Alansplodge (talk) 12:13, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
 * See Hammond, Sources for Alexander the Great (CUP, 1993), p. 112 for a review of the sources concerning the founding and naming of Bucephala: The city was probably already founded, Bucephalas died aferward, and then the city was given the famous name. -- Atethnekos (Discussion, Contributions) 03:53, 19 August 2013 (UTC)