Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2013 August 20

= August 20 =

Flags hanging style
I recently purchased these flags for decoration and am planning to hang them vertically. Since they are non-symmetrical on the horizontal axis, is the proper way to hang them vertically just to rotate them 90° clockwise or to rotate them 90° clockwise then flip them over the long side? Ks0stm (T•C•G•E) 00:55, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * While trying to find an image of possibly a state building with flags draped vertically, I found this iPhone case with the flag of Seychelles. If they did their research, it's simply turned 90* clockwise.  Although, they are split on the flag of Cape Verde.  Dismas |(talk) 01:07, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * The link at the bottom of our Flag of Seychelles article says that "The vertical flag is simply the horizontal version turned 90 degrees clockwise." Dismas |(talk) 01:18, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Although the custom in the UK is: "If hung vertically, the edge that would normally be the top of the flag should be on the left, so, for example, ensigns have their Union Flag canton in the upper left corner. On ensigns that have an armorial badge, if possible the badge should be upright, and the correct way round." From Flying Flags in the United Kingdom: A Guide to Britain's Flag Protocol (p. 5) produced by the Flag Institute in association with the e Flags & Heraldry Committee of the United Kingdom Parliament. Alansplodge (talk) 16:46, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Traditional American hiding places for valuables
My house was broken into yesterday, and the result was weird — valuables were left alone, while if I listed the things taken, you'd think it as random as "an odd volume of Pope's 'Homer,' two plated candlesticks, an ivory letter-weight, a small oak barometer, and a ball of twine." As I noted to the investigating police officer, numerous cabinet doors were left open; apparently the invader(s) guessed that I was keeping more than toilet paper and baking soda under my sink. Are kitchen and bathroom cabinets traditional locations for valuables in American culture? One's normal array of under-the-sink chemicals presumably wouldn't include things like cold medicine and ammonia, and my conversation with the police office has left me with the assumption that they were opened in hopes of yielding valuables. Nyttend (talk) 02:23, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Not that I've ever been aware of. Closets and dresser drawers are more stereotypical places.  Dismas |(talk) 04:23, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * First of all, sorry to hear about that, the feelings of your personal space being violated are terrible. As to your question, in my experience (anecdotal evidence, etc.) it depends on the neighborhood and socio-economic class (if you catch my drift). I have heard of people taping, or otherwise fastening, cash/drugs/weapons/etc. either to the underside of the cabinet, or up on the inside of the front face (above the door) of the cabinet. It could be that the intruder came from a background where that is common and that is what he/she was looking for.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 05:00, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I would guess your home was broken into by kids looking for a thrill, not trying to find valuables. They probably took whatever seemed neat or like fun.  They likely don't even have a "fence" to sell it for them.  I once apparently had my car broken into by kids.  They emptied the coins out of the tray and smoked some cigarettes in there, but did nothing else. StuRat (talk) 07:31, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * In American fiction (literature and TV shows, mostly) I have dozens of times encountered references to people storing valuables under the mattress, or more rarely in the flour tin. Usually it's money for the former, and jewelry for the latter. —Psychonaut (talk) 07:41, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm familiar with the idea of hiding valuables under a sink from seeing gadget catalogs that sell fake cans of oven cleaner for example, which unscrew so things can be hidden inside. In my working class U.S. family however, money was always kept in bedroom dresser drawers. 198.190.231.15 (talk) 13:33, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Apparently, the foolish "Hide the house key under the doormat" idea has been mostly eradicated in Britain. I'd imagine it's largely gone from America, too. Still a good stereotype, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:30, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Not before Hitchcock made Dial M for Murder, though. (That's not a spoiler, for those few dozen Western world humans who haven't seen it.)  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:25, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Konrad von Hochstaden
Can anyone tell me why there is a figure performing autofellatio below the figure of Konrad von Hochstaden on the Cologne City Hall? Dismas |(talk) 04:18, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Apparently the article was vandalized, and the offending image has since been removed: . StuRat (talk) 07:35, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * It's not about vandalism of a WP article. The actual statue really does portray this activity. The Straight Dope discussed it a while back.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  08:57, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Are you referring to an unreferenced statement by 81.210.35.114? There is a man looking at the world through his crotch, the famous "Cologne mirror". --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 18:01, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm referring to that. Now I'm confused.  Is there some other part of that building with a similar statue that you thought I might be referring to?  Dismas |(talk) 19:52, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The author of the description of File:Rathausturm Köln - Konrad von Hochstaden - Gerhard Unmaze (6143-45).jpg appears informed and names the sculpture "Cologne mirror" by sculptor Herbert Rausch (1925–1983). The sculpture is explained in "Stadtspuren, Denkmäler in Köln", vol. 21, by Hiltrud Kier and Ulrich Krings, J. P. Bachem Verlag, 1996, p. 146. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 20:56, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Samarong
What is Samarong referring to I this source? It can't be Semarang, can it if it is referring to an island claimed by the Kingdom of Hawaii?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 08:17, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I haven't found the answer but it certainly cannot be Semarang. says: "Palmyra Island and Samarong Island were proclaimed Hawaiian territory by L. Kamchamech, Minister of the Interior, on June 18, 1862."
 * says with no mention of "Samarong":


 * "Thereupon the Minister of the Interior duly issued a proclamation on June 18, as follows:


 * 'Whereas, On the 15th day of April, 1862, Palmyra Island, in latitude 5 50 North, and longitude 161 53 West, was taken possession of, with the usual formalities, by Captain Zenas Bent, he being duly authorized to do so, in the name of Kamehameha IV, King of the Hawaiian Islands. Therefore, This is to give notice, that the said island, so taken possession of, is henceforth to be considered and respected as part of the Domain of the King of the Hawaiian Islands.'"


 * Other sources to the June 18, 1862 proclamation are similar with no mention of Samarong. Palmyra Atoll is one of the Line Islands. Maybe Samarong is a Hawaiian name for Palmyra, or a name for one of the other Line Islands or one of the many islets of Palmyra itself. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:13, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought Hawaiian didn't have an [s] sound. --Trovatore (talk) 21:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It is not a Hawaiian name. It is suppose to be a Pacific Island claimed by the Kingdom of Hawaii.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 21:38, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Round World vs Flat World
Did experienced ship captains have an idea that the world was round in the 11th century? When did this concept then come into being? Is there records of this? --Christie the puppy lover (talk) 12:50, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * There is some info in the article "Myth of the Flat Earth". Gabbe (talk) 13:01, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * (ec)The world was known to be round to informed parties since time immemorial. In particular, Pythagoras already supported that view around 500 BCE, and Eratosthenes gave a surprisingly accurate estimate for the size of the Earth around 200 BCE. Our article is at Spherical Earth. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 13:06, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * According to your link, it's having been known since time immemorial does not in fact guarantee that it was known in (at least the early part of) the 11th century. --Trovatore (talk) 23:14, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The early part of the 12th century, in fact. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  23:25, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * ...in English law, not universally. And even in English law, it has different interpretations. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:33, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The Ancient Greeks were (probably) the first civilisation to widely accept the concept of a spherical Earth, and to estimate its size (see Eratosthenes). This knowledge was not lost during the Middle Ages - for example, Hermann of Reichenau was using Eratosthenes's method to re-estimate the Earth's size in the 11th century. An educated European at that time would certainly have heard of the idea of a spherical Earth and would be aware of the evidence for this. Gandalf61 (talk) 13:14, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * The question isn't about (university-) educated Europeans, though. It is about ship captains, who generally did not have much formal education.  Probably not all experienced ship captains were even literate in the 11th century. We can't know for sure, but our article Spherical Earth suggests that the Greek philosophers' ideas about Earth's spherical shape actually came from the observations of ancient Greek captains and sailors, who noticed that the altitude of stars in the sky varied with latitude and who observed that, at a distance from the shore, only the tops of objects onshore were visible. Seafaring was a continuous tradition in the Mediterranean from ancient times, and Middle Eastern seafarers were likely to have spread this lore from the Mediterranean to the Red Sea, from whence it could well have spread to other parts of Asia and Africa. So it seems quite plausible that by the 11th century, ship captains, or at least those who sailed far enough from shore or far enough north and south to observe those phenomena, would have heard of the explanation for them that the Earth is round.  Marco polo (talk) 14:36, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Any sailor with a brain could figure it out himself, based on how the tops of ships disappear last as they sail away. After all, this is part of the reason for the crow's nest, to allow sailors to see over the the water to spot distant land.  Of course, they might never really think about this, or they might think that oceans are curved while land is flat, since the curvature is harder to spot on land, with hills and forests blocking the effect. StuRat (talk) 21:07, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, I've had my doubts for a long time that any observant, thinking person living near the coast or on very flat country ever thought the earth was flat. That there are enough nutters in the world to allow the Flat Earth Society to exist never ceases to amaze me. HiLo48 (talk) 22:26, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Your doubts are easily dispelled by historical facts. The Chinese believed the world was flat and square until Europeans educated them in the 17th century: .  Even then, many Chinese continued to cling to old beliefs, refusing to accept that their kingdom was small and had no central position in the world.  Unlike Greece, which is extremely mountainous, China is relatively flat (especially along the river valleys where civilization first developed).
 * Also note that "non-flat" and "spherical" are not synonymous. You can have an ellipsoid or a curved sheet that doesn't close on itself, like a bent piece of paper.  Aristotle made very impressive arguments for Earth's sphericity (see, which also directly answers the OP's question):
 * Every portion of the Earth tends toward the center until by compression and convergence they form a sphere ("if we give precision to our postulate that any body endowed with weight, of whatever size, moves towards the centre [..] earth in motion, whether in a mass or in fragments, necessarily continues to move until it occupies the centre equally every way, the less being forced to equalize itself by the greater owing to the forward drive of the impulse" -- De caelo)
 * Travelers going south see southern constellations rise higher above the horizon; and
 * The shadow of Earth on the Moon during a lunar eclipse is round. --Bowlhover (talk) 05:16, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The flat earth society takes its message seriously? I thought they were some kind of avant-garde pastafarians, a satirical organisations. Reading the wikipedia page, it appears they had a Canadian equivalent that was in fact a joke, so that may be why... Effovex (talk) 23:05, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * You might also look up the "LA Platygaean Society", the brainchild of a friend of mine. Some very amusing USEnet posts, back in the day.... --Trovatore (talk) 00:48, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The original Flat Earth Society back in the 60s and 70s seemed to be very serious. I'm not sure about the modern internet-age rebirth of the group. APL (talk) 16:05, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Jehovah's Witnesses have published information online at http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102004444?q=round+flat+earth&p=par.
 * —Wavelength (talk) 22:38, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you gentlemen.--Christie the puppy lover (talk) 12:24, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

English mixed indep private schools
Which are the best please? Kittybrewster  &#9742;  13:27, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * |23081|23101|23111|23221|23271|23301 This Financial Times page lets you judge the schools according to various definitions of "best". It can only tell you if the sixth form is mixed though (i.e. those where the % girls is less than 100 and more than 0). Some schools are single sex up to 16 and mixed after that. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 15:54, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Very helpful. Quite ready to fly. Kittybrewster  &#9742;  16:03, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps start at | Oxford Boarding. There is, confusingly, another organisation known as 'The Oxford Group' which comprises the 26 top boarding prep schools, but I have been unable to find a full list. The head man of Summer Fields is Michael Faber, an ex-MP and as in Willis Faber. The Dragon is an excellent school, but seriously pushes its pupils. See also: | Cothill and its associated schools. The way to start is to look at which public schools the prep school is feeding into: | here's who feeds into Aytong. Scholarships, bursaries, and exhibitions are indicative only nowadays because so many are given out (not like the old days). I would have thought Ludgrove would be your sort of establishment. You should really take up that friend of your's offer to have a chat with you about the subject (what was his name, again?), rather than ask strangers on Wikipedia... after all, young Hamish and Angus are in a demographic bulge. The best schools that I found include Belhaven - but that's in Dunbar, which is quite a slog, and the police are all over the A1 and M6, so you have to stick to the speed limit and it takes hours to get there - and Ashdown House, alma mater of Borat Johnson. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.42.58.148 (talk) 17:37, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Chinese and poi
How did Chinese immigrants to Hawaii take to the Hawaiian dish poi given taro was a familiar staple to Southern Chinese and they too mashed taro into a paste like pudding (芋頭沙), although no fermenting is done unlike poi? --KAVEBEAR (talk) 17:35, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Question about Philadelphia history
Before 1951, was there a City Council? How many members served on it? Were any elected At Large?Gaffpat (talk) 21:58, 20 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Before WWII my Father's father's father owned a restaurant in Center City. My father says it had a contract to feed the "town council" and the jail.  That's OR and based on a long memory from a very young age.  A glance at google was not helpful. μηδείς (talk) 00:25, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Just wanting to make sure, Gaffpat: did you mean to ask about 1951, or were you thinking of 1854? That's when the city and county were merged by the General Assembly.  Nyttend (talk) 06:31, 21 August 2013 (UTC)