Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2013 February 6

= February 6 =

Historic income tax revenue - United States
I am looking for a reference for income tax revenue from ~1920-30 in the United States. I myself could only find data going back to 1934,. If anyone knows of a good source for this data it would be much appreciated and would be used to improve relevant articles. Furious Style (talk) 00:58, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * This link might help you -- http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/revenue_chart_1910_2010USp_XXs1li011mcn_11f12f_Federal_Income_Taxes Futurist110 (talk) 05:39, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I had found that and dismissed it as not good enough, but I now realise I could use that data set along with another and have now determined that a paragraph in Supply-side economics was indeed false. Furious Style (talk) 19:54, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Flag of the Qing Dynasty
Flag of the Qing Dynasty speak about a Ba gua flag and a Qilin flag. Do illustration of such flags exist?--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 07:49, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * They were never made, only presented as options to the Empress Dowager by the Zongli Yamen in a memorial. I could find no sources to indicate whether illustrations accompanied the memorial, but you may be able to find out by contacting the No. 1 National Archives in Beijing, who should hold the original of the memorial if it still exists. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:40, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * A memorial, or a memorandum? (It's worth asking, because it affects how you would search for such a thing in the state archives.) AlexTiefling (talk) 16:55, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "Memorial" is the usual English translation for the Chinese word "奏章", which in turn is a generic name for all types of reports submitted by bureaucrats to the emperor. In turn, "奏" and "章" separately are two of the many types of reports submitted by bureaucrats. I don't know what particular format or type was used in this instance, but I'm not sure it is necessary to know that when searching the state archives. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 19:42, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I think that English (at least, bureaucratic UK English) uses 'memorandum' rather than 'memorial' for this; the distinction being that a memorial is a thing that commemorates a person, event or thing - that is, it is a thing remember them by, whereas a memorandum is something which ought to be remembered. (The boring detail is that 'memorandum', like 'agenda', 'referendum', and 'Miranda', is a Latin gerundive, which conveys 'something that ought to be verbed', for a given choice of transitive verb.) But as the bureaucrats in question speak Chinese, I agree that this is not, after all, a relevant distinction. AlexTiefling (talk) 20:57, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * For a famous such example of "memorial", see the Tanaka Memorial... AnonMoos (talk) 04:59, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * No, I wouldn't use "memorial" to refer to a ministerial memorandum or a cabinet submission in the Westminster sense either. It seems to be a sort of jargon used only in the East Asian context. The term "memorial to the throne" is also used. I have no idea how the translation originated, given that it doesn't seem to be the most obvious translation of the Chinese term.--PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:44, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The OED entry on "memorial" is interesting. It suggests similar historical usage in English, to mean and also "In diplomatic use: any of various informal state papers giving an account of a matter under discussion, esp. one presented by an ambassador to the state to which he or she is accredited, or by a government to one of its agents abroad. Obs.", and "A statement of facts forming the basis of or expressed in the form of a petition or remonstrance to a person in authority, a government, etc.", and quotes, for example:
 * "1832  H. Martineau Demerara ii. 15   They met from time to time to..draw up memorials to Government.
 * "1900  Congress. Rec. (U.S.) 3 Jan. 638/1   A memorial of the legislature of the State of Colorado, favoring the return to the Republic of Mexico of captured cannon, flags, and banners.
 * "1697  Acts & Resolves Mass. Bay VII. 556   The Said Committee being also directed to Consider..ye memorialls presented by the ministers..are of Opinion [etc.]."
 * and also mentions that the word is in current use in Scottish law in a related sense, as "A statement of facts drawn up to be submitted to the Lord Ordinary in the Court of Session preliminary to a hearing. Also: an advocate's brief." --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:59, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * At a guess, I would imagine the ba gua flag to be similar to the flag of South Korea, and a Qilin flag to be similar to the flag of the Republic of Formosa. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:42, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Mandora, Western Australia
Is there any connection between Mandora Station in Western Australia and the British victory at the Battle of Mandora in 1801? I've just written a stub about the battle. and wondered if there was a link between the two. Alansplodge (talk) 15:16, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I can't find any reference to such a connection, Alan. My guess fwiw is that Mandora is a local Aboriginal word, but I've not been able to confirm that either.  But here's a record of an Aboriginal woman named Mandora (1910).


 * Mandora Station has itself contributed indirectly to the name of a suburb of Perth, Madora Bay (no n): First approved as Madora in 1990, and amended to Madora Bay in 2003, this suburb derives its name from “Madora Beach Estate” of 1960. The estate was a development of Perry’s Estate Agency in Mandurah, and the name was derived from two Western Australian place names: Chadora, a mill and railway siding near Dwellingup, and Mandora, a cattle station between Broome and Port Hedland.  --   Jack of Oz   [Talk]  20:00, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Many thanks - it was worth a go, after all, there's a Trafalgar, Victoria and four towns called Waterloo in Australia. Alansplodge (talk) 20:24, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, yes. I'm only an hour's drive from Trafalgar.  My own hamlet of Maffra is said to be at least indirectly named after the Portuguese town and municipality of Mafra, prominent in the Peninsular War.  And my Maffra is located within the Shire of Wellington's jurisdiction.  The shire's headquarters are in Sale, named after Major General Sir Robert Henry Sale, a British Army officer who commanded the garrison of Jalalabad during the First Afghan War and was killed in action during the First Anglo-Sikh War.  We're a traditional lot down here and we have long memories of places we've never heard of.  --  Jack of Oz   [Talk]  22:55, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't imagine where you inherited that from! Alansplodge (talk) 12:42, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * According to the City of Mandurah official site, that place got its name from a local name, Mandjoogoordap. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:27, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Mandurah is several hundred miles away from Mandora Station, but it is still plausible that Mandora's name is derived from an Aboriginal name. It is also plausible that the place was named after the battle.  Marco polo (talk) 21:12, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we'll never know. The battle seems to have been largely forgotten, even contemporary accounts often just call it the "action of 13th March" as it was overshadowed by the Battle of Alexandria eight days later. I was hoping that I could prove a link with the Mandora crater on Mars, but all in vain. Alansplodge (talk) 14:47, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

What are the most inspiring uses of Wikipedia content?
I am looking for examples of Wikipedia content being reused to create something imaginative and new. I have one so far - Google Maps Wikipedia layer. Any other ideas? Please note that I am looking for remixes/reuses adding something new, so don't tell me about mirrors, forks or for-profit scams - I am aware of those, and they are not wbat I am asking about. I am also aware of GLAM and WiR stuff, but again, they are somewhat off topic here, as they are about Wikipedia working with others and making them contribute to Wikipedia, and not necessarily about others reusing Wikipedia content. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 15:32, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, it is not certain that it is Wikipedia's content being reused (it could have been some textbook) and the extent of reuse is very limited, but at least (look at  - "Equestria Daily", "Episode Followup: It's About Time", 2012-03-11 - for more context) certainly shows an imaginative use in "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic" episode "It's About Time" (filling the blackboard with formulas that are real and correspond to the ones in Time dilation - ). If you want examples to show that our work is not wasted, I'd say this could be useful. --Martynas Patasius (talk) 19:20, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Black history month question: When was the term "Black American" coined acceptable by the United_States_Census?
Black history month question: When was the term "Black American" coined acceptable by the United_States_Census? Venustar84 (talk) 21:47, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The 1850 questionnaire used the term "black". What you mean by 'coined acceptable" is unclear. μηδείς (talk) 00:38, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Possibly because at one time "black" was considered offensive or at least demeaning, until black Americans took ownership of the term and made it a thing of pride. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:26, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

These things go through cycles (the "euphemism treadmill" vs. "reclaiming"); so the name of the NAACP has "Colored", UNCF has "Negro", while organizations founded since the late 1960's have "Black" or "African-American"... AnonMoos (talk) 04:50, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Interestingly, the "Colored", "Black", and "Negro" usage were equally prominent among civil rights leaders at the turn of the 20th century. The NAACP was founded in 1909 by a group that included W. E. B. Du Bois, whose landmark book on race consciousness at the turn of the 20th century (the one which introduced the phrase "color line" into the lexicon) was The Souls of Black Folk.  Dubois was also a member of the National Negro Committee, which was the forerunner to the NAACP.  So, it doesn't appear that any of the three words, at that particular time, carried more or less stigma.  Other times may have favored one term over the other, but there were times when they were clearly interchangable.  -- Jayron  32  05:06, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The source I quoted has the verbiage from the 1800's through the 1900's. The 1850 and 1890 censi ask about blacks explicitly and the 1980 census is the first to ask about "race".  I filled out the long form census for my parents when they got it in both 1980 and 1990 and told the census takers to bugger off both times.  According to the press non-informative answers were supposed to earn us visits by a live census taker, but that didn't happen either time. μηδείς (talk) 05:25, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * You found an 1890 census form? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:58, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * see the source I found in my first response above. μηδείς (talk) 19:11, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Very interesting, very useful. But for a hot second, I thought you had found a filled-out 1890 form, which would likely be a rarity. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:17, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * A few selections from the census sheets on ancestry.com, which of course it only has through 1940:
 * 1840: Head of household plus counts of Free White Persons and Free Colored Persons.
 * 1850, 1860: Color: White, Black, or Mulatto.
 * 1870, 1880: Color: White, Black, Mulatto, Chinese, or Indian.
 * 1890: Records were lost in a fire.
 * 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930, 1940: Color or race.
 * ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:15, 7 February 2013 (UTC)